Yeat ANOTHER memorial service for.......

[PatRiceKnows]

Cant the same be said about the liverpool fans turning up late, pissed or without tickets? Thats all i want accepting of some blame

.. i agree with tht, but its the duty of the police to stop tht happening, imagine is fans did tht now days.

[flash gunner]

Not trying to wind you up but Bojde where are you? I presume you agree with what i wrote?

[BOJDE LFC]

well find out when tht dossier gets released. a bit ott blaming the fans trying it on seeing as it was the cunting FA and maggie thatcher *spits*, for putting up those fences.

Firstly the fences werent compulsory (we didnt have them) and there were very few problems elsewhere except Heisel and oh yeah liverpool fans involved there too more blood on the Victim FC's supporters hands

I'm biting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imYujpP7 ... r_embedded

Skip to 08:48 of that video. Spurs v Wolves at Hillsborough,

Funnily enough your description of the event is eerily similar to that of the Suns. Is it fair to say that you have formed your opinion from that paper? You know why you feel so safe when you are in the Emirates to watch Arsenal? Those 96 fans paid for your safety with their lives. It's just a shame that people had to lose lives for this to happen. Instead of going on a tangent i'm going to ask you if you have done any research on the matter at all?

Bojde my posts werent intended to make you bite.

My understanding of the events that day are formed from various reports of the day including the very sad programmes ive seen that are pro liverpool or made by families of those killed. As i said the 96 killed that day were the innocent it was the supporters who turned up late and without tickets that murdered them that day. My days of supporting Arsenal have gone well before all seater stadiums safety so i have my own experiences of these types of crowds. In Athens champions league final liverpool fans tried similar tactics and i bet some of these hypocrits attended the memorials yesterday.........

Its quite possible the police made mistake that day but so did many many fans that attempted to steal their way in and this should be recognised too

What evidence is there of a bunch of drunk Liverpool fans turning up late and forcing their way in? It was a cover up mate. As the deceased Liverpool fans laid on the ground of the gymnasium they were tested for alcohol levels, why would they do that? You're right about Athens, the fans that tried jumping over the gates can't be defended and are hypocrites. Do you actually believe that drunk Liverpool fans forced that gate open? There is cctv footage proving that the gate was ordered open. This has been confirmed by people have seen the footage. They also said that there was no strange behaviour among the crowd, think about it, if Duckenfield revealed what had really happened heads would have rolled (including his), so why not blame the Liverpool fans and get rid of all the evidence suggesting otherwise, all the files of that day have mysteriously vanished, why would this happen?

[mrgnu1958]

Ok Bodje you win..your absolutely the salt of the earth..And scousers are great comedians

[12thGooner]

Bodje, i think your missing something here. The police were definately at fault for how they handled the crowd that was at the game, but the liverpool fans that had turned up in numbers without tickets are at fault for being the cause of the infalted number. Those that died would not likely be part of any of that number being on the terrace and at the front while the events were unfolding.

Its not unreasonable to state that both the police and the un ticket bearing liverpool fans are jointly to blame for the events of that day.

RIP those that died.

[flash gunner]

Bodje, i think your missing something here. The police were definately at fault for how they handled the crowd that was at the game, but the liverpool fans that had turned up in numbers without tickets are at fault for being the cause of the infalted number. Those that died would not likely be part of any of that number being on the terrace and at the front while the events were unfolding.

Its not unreasonable to state that both the police and the un ticket bearing liverpool fans are jointly to blame for the events of that day.

RIP those that died.

Thats what im getting at..... Have you seen the CCTV footage of outside the gates at 3.05pm the crush could have happened there if the police hadnt opened the gates

[BOJDE LFC]

And why didn't they close the tunnel to the middle pen? You know yourself fans follow like sheep, they see where everyone else is going and go there, what they were supposed to do was to close the middle tunnel so they could channel the fans into the other pens, also why was Liverpool given the smaller end at Hillsborough? Everyone knew that there would more Liverpool fans in Hillsborough that day, think about what you're saying, you can blame the fans if they acted as hooligans and pushed the main gate open and crushed everyone at the front purposely, but blaming fans just because they show up is quite frankly ridiculous. Also you haven't answered my questions.

[flash gunner]

Thats because i cant answer your questions about missing files etc.... My guess is the police realised they made a mistake and maybe paniced and maybe covered it up(i have said in previous posts the police were not fault-less) but its a guess and i cant be sure about that part of the police' role..... If the fans hadnt turned up without tickets, late, pissed or all of these things there would have been no decision for then police to make.

My prayers are definately with those that died but i think liverpool fans would get more credence if they admitted a part in the events of that terrible day

[12thGooner]

but blaming fans just because they show up is quite frankly ridiculous.

No one is doubting the amount of bullshit the old bill have spread over this to save their own asses. But your comment above is really the foundation of the anamosity towards liverpool fans and this particular incident.

Its pretty clear that only reason memorials still take place for this event is there are still enough people out there that feel a sense of injustice at what happened that day. No similar events exits for the Heysel, or the bradford fire amonst others.

Look at it this way. The stand is fine to hold the amount of tickets that have been issued. A shitload more fans turn up that don't have any. The old bill fcuk it up and let them in the middle gate instead of the side ones to aliviate pressure.

There are two things at play here:

1 the amount of liverpool fans turning up without tickets.

2. the inability or lack of care of the police in handling the additional presence.

Point 1 had to occur for point to take effect.

The fact that liverpool fans consitently fail to recognise the amount of liverpool fans turning up without tickets is the root cause of the problem is really annoying when all we hear are cries of victims.

[mrgnu1958]

Thats because i cant answer your questions about missing files etc.... My guess is the police realised they made a mistake and maybe paniced and maybe covered it up(i have said in previous posts the police were not fault-less) but its a guess and i cant be sure about that part of the police' role..... If the fans hadnt turned up without tickets, late, pissed or all of these things there would have been no decision for then police to make.

My prayers are definately with those that died but i think liverpool fans would get more credence if they admitted a part in the events of that terrible day

EXACTLY!

[BOJDE LFC]

Analysis of SWFC's electronic admission system, HSE’s analysis and eye-witness accounts, including two SYP officers, showed there was no evidence of a high number of ticketless fans. HSE gave three admission figures based on their analysis, with the 'maximum estimate' being 10,124. Even this shows there were only 24 people more than the 10,100 allocated. There goes that theory then.

[merse_10]

Analysis of SWFC's electronic admission system, HSE’s analysis and eye-witness accounts, including two SYP officers, showed there was no evidence of a high number of ticketless fans. HSE gave three admission figures based on their analysis, with the 'maximum estimate' being 10,124. Even this shows there were only 24 people more than the 10,100 allocated. There goes that theory then.

so far youve rubbished all the facts/evidence/staistics that dont suit your argument and labelled them bullshit and cover-ups but you're happy to use this one cos it backs you up
i really have no opinion on this either way as i wasnt there and think its sad that 96 people lost their lives following the team they loved.just think you need to stop the blameless victims thing as clearly everyone has blame to accept
r.i.p

[BOJDE LFC]

Which "facts" have I rubbished?

[merse_10]

fair point,by facts etc im refering to the view put forward against yours and how youve discredited it entirely unless it aids your argument.if the analysis of the ticket system proved the oppposite im sure you would have rubbished it as cover ups as well.not looking to argue over peoples lives just think like others you'd get more credit by accepting a portion of blame then the focus can move on to other points,i.e police handling instead of focusing on the general,we're innocent and your to blame of both sides.surely thats what you want,focus on the ob not you?

[BOJDE LFC]

The reason why i'm so sure of what happened is because i've been studying it for a good while and I only try to take facts into my debates. Most if not all the things you guys have been saying is just opinion and that's why I don't use most of the points myself. A lot of the key events that happened that day can be proved by facts. Not opinion. Here's another fact, who was it that was pulling Liverpool fans into the upper tier to save them from the crush? Who was it that were using billboards as stretchers to carry Liverpool fans onto the pitch? Who was it that were trying to resuscitate Liverpool fans on the pitch? Not the SYP, Liverpool fans. They were the real heroes that day. Why do I say that their version of events was a cover up? There were no facts backing it up.