still has a cannon on it at leastRoscommonGooner wrote:The amount of those fuckwits that wore that white shirt to the home game against s**rs nearly made me pukedigger wrote:There are also a fuckload of our fans who like the white kits and the charlton-esque home shirts. It's only a minority of us who oppose these nasty shirts, and I guess most of us wouldn't buy a shirt anyway - the club doesn't give a fuck.
...i always wear the home shirt myself
If you can't see how that relates to what you've said I'm not sure I can explain it any better...MM99 wrote:Ok, but i don't see how that relates to anything i've said, i haven't said that original = traditional so i'm not sure what you're getting at there with that.DB10GOONER wrote:
We've had this on here before... Original does NOT mean Traditional.
Your OP infers that because something came later than something else it cannot be traditional. Read your OP again. I didn't say it pissed on our tradition. Where did I say that? I said that tradition is built up. I believe it is accumulated by experience and it is subjective. It is also popularist; most people that are alive today that support Arsenal associate us with yellow away jerseys and a west facing cannon, as do most oppo fans and the media, because that is our tradition, built up over decades. Sure there have been changes here and there but tradition is the sum of the whole, not its parts.Agreed, but the point is, and you mention it yourself, that it's the era that some fans have grown up with where the cannon has faced that way; that does NOT mean that just because it has changed again that it is somehow going against all that is Arsenal, or pissing on our tradition. As i explained before, our crest has changed many times over our history and faced East first before it faced West, so if anything facing East is more traditional that it facing West, so just because certain people grew up with the cannon facing West it does not mean that now that it has faced the other way that it is somehow "untraditional" or "un-Arsenal".Tradition is built up by our association with something culturally, socially and personally over a period of time. We associate the yellow away and the west-pointing cannon with the era 99% of us have followed the Arsenal (1960's to date) and with great players that wore those colours and with great moments in the clubs history.
I find it strange that you critisice people for wanting to uphold tradition (showing they care) because (apparently) you think it doesn't really matter, but you seem to be quite passionate about them pissing you off. Not having a pop here btw.That is fair enough mate, everyone's got their personal preference on the badge or the cannon and entitled to their opinion. But one thing that does piss me off is when people claim that just because something has changed from what they've been used to, that it is somehow going against that fundamental principles of Arsenal Football Club. Just as a while ago we had someone slating the club for having blue on the away kits, i posted up and image of all our past kits and blue was a part of our away kit since the very first few away kits we had. It seems that because people don't like the way something has changed that they say that it is 'wrong' or untraditional or whatever.For me I don't really care about that bit but I do like continuing the traditions that both myself and my father before me grew up with.
And MM99, I hardly think anyone is getting bent out of shape over this, people are just expressing their preference.
IUFGN might not necessarily be getting stressed out over the way the cannon is facing but my rant wasn't just aimed at him, it was more at all the times i have seen the whole "oh the cannon is facing the wrong way" line be said over many many threads on many many forums. Was more of a rant at those people who adopt that view rather than anyone specific in this certain thread.
Like i said at the end of my last post DB10, my rant wasn't in response to a particular post on this particular thread, it was more towards people who hold that view in general which i have come across on numerous boards. So i wasn't saying that you in particular had said it had pissed on our traditions, but that that is the argument that is generally made against the cannon facing East.DB10GOONER wrote: I didn't say it pissed on our tradition. Where did I say that? I said that tradition is built up. I believe it is accumulated by experience and it is subjective. It is also popularist; most people that are alive today that support Arsenal associate us with yellow away jerseys and a west facing cannon, as do most oppo fans and the media, because that is our tradition, built up over decades. Sure there have been changes here and there but tradition is the sum of the whole, not its parts.
Mate i never said that. If you were to ask me what colour away kit i would like i would say yellow and blue. So i'm not sure why you're saying that as i never said that yellow isn't a traditional kit of ours.You say yellow isn't traditional because we haven't always played in yellow away jerseys. Ok - would you say that the red body/white sleeve home jersey is traditional or not? Because it isn't our original jersey and we haven't always played in those home colours either...
But that's the whole point i'm trying to make here, i'm not criticising people for wanting to uphold our tradition, thats great that they do! But what i am criticising is that people who say things like "the cannon facing east is untraditional" without actually realising that the cannon has faced several different directions within our history, so it's wrong to say that there is only one corrrect way of it facing. It's when people don't realise that something has actually been part of our tradition and that just because it may have been changed in their years of following Arsenal, that it is now somehow untraditional or anti-Arsenal, that's what bugs me.I find it strange that you critisice people for wanting to uphold tradition (showing they care) because (apparently) you think it doesn't really matter, but you seem to be quite passionate about them pissing you off. Not having a pop here btw.
Basil is a Gooner wrote:When you log on to pravda.com there is a pop up asking if you want to be e-mailed a pic of the new home kit on launch, and CESC is wearing it!
.....pity the same cant be said for us fans 
