As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
Bergkamp-Genius wrote:I don't think there is any doubt Schwarzer is a better keeper than Al, but i don't think he is as good as we should be aiming for and i don't like the idea of us buying a guy his age.
We need a keeper we can build a defence around someone who is gonna be with us for at least 5 years not someone we are going to have to replace again in 2 seasons..
As for the stats you showed Dude, whilst i'm not debating whether Schwarzer is a better keeper than Al or not, those stats mean very little. I'm sure there are keepers in the lower leagues and non league football if the same stats were applied to them they would appear to be better than Schwarzer, doesn't make it so though...
Sadly I dont see it that way considering the level of opposition a lower league goalie has to put up with.
Unlike out-field players, a goalkeeper's stats are actually more viable as there are less variables to consider to determine how effective they are to the team.
i.e out-field player; number of passes, number of passes that lead to a chance, distance covered, pass accuracy e.t.c
while a goalie is as simple as the shots saved, number of clearances(punches/rushing out kicks), kicking/throwing accuracy and goals conceeded.
Schwarzer will give us 2-3yrs and if we are to believe the hype around Wojciech Szczesny(would be 23yrs old by then) surely he will take over, or do we sign a long term goalie and leave Szcz who might be quality sitting on the bench. Remember Petr Cech started for Chelsea age 22.
p.s I have already conceeded that we would not sign a long term replacement and I would take anyone better than Al at the moment.
Actually the same problems arise with stats for goalies as do with outfield players...you have no idea what kind of shots he is stopping or what kind of balls he is punching... lesser teams are going to have more action in around their own box but most of it is going to be of a less serious nature so it will be easier to build up good stats and easier to hide the goal and points losing howlers in amongst those stats. At a big club you can't hide those howlers and of the little you have to do a lot of it will be serious not just nothing crosses and powder puff shots ...
I understand you don't have much confidence in Wenger buying the kind of keeper he should, neither do i, so obviously Schwarzer would be better than nothing.. But i prefer to just keep telling myself Wenger has finally learnt his lesson and will do the necessary, so i can't bring myself to make do with the likes of Schwarzer though no doubt come the start of the season i will be wishing we had...
That notion doesn't really stand as this season saw alot more goals go in, hence every game had it fair share of serious attacks.
Petr Cech may have little to do but when called upon he makes save.
Cech, Reina, Schwarzer all have a 2.6+ saves to conceeding ratio, Hart, Frediel, Gomez have a 3.1+, Van der Sar has a 4.1 while Al has a 1.9
And off all those keepers, who was in the media the most for having one shocker after another?
As for compared goalie and outfield stats, tell me which of these two tables look factual
Bergkamp-Genius wrote:I don't think there is any doubt Schwarzer is a better keeper than Al, but i don't think he is as good as we should be aiming for and i don't like the idea of us buying a guy his age.
We need a keeper we can build a defence around someone who is gonna be with us for at least 5 years not someone we are going to have to replace again in 2 seasons..
As for the stats you showed Dude, whilst i'm not debating whether Schwarzer is a better keeper than Al or not, those stats mean very little. I'm sure there are keepers in the lower leagues and non league football if the same stats were applied to them they would appear to be better than Schwarzer, doesn't make it so though...
Sadly I dont see it that way considering the level of opposition a lower league goalie has to put up with.
Unlike out-field players, a goalkeeper's stats are actually more viable as there are less variables to consider to determine how effective they are to the team.
i.e out-field player; number of passes, number of passes that lead to a chance, distance covered, pass accuracy e.t.c
while a goalie is as simple as the shots saved, number of clearances(punches/rushing out kicks), kicking/throwing accuracy and goals conceeded.
Schwarzer will give us 2-3yrs and if we are to believe the hype around Wojciech Szczesny(would be 23yrs old by then) surely he will take over, or do we sign a long term goalie and leave Szcz who might be quality sitting on the bench. Remember Petr Cech started for Chelsea age 22.
p.s I have already conceeded that we would not sign a long term replacement and I would take anyone better than Al at the moment.
Actually the same problems arise with stats for goalies as do with outfield players...you have no idea what kind of shots he is stopping or what kind of balls he is punching... lesser teams are going to have more action in around their own box but most of it is going to be of a less serious nature so it will be easier to build up good stats and easier to hide the goal and points losing howlers in amongst those stats. At a big club you can't hide those howlers and of the little you have to do a lot of it will be serious not just nothing crosses and powder puff shots ...
I understand you don't have much confidence in Wenger buying the kind of keeper he should, neither do i, so obviously Schwarzer would be better than nothing.. But i prefer to just keep telling myself Wenger has finally learnt his lesson and will do the necessary, so i can't bring myself to make do with the likes of Schwarzer though no doubt come the start of the season i will be wishing we had...
That notion doesn't really stand as this season saw alot more goals go in, hence every game had it fair share of serious attacks.
Petr Cech may have little to do but when called upon he makes save.
Cech, Reina, Schwarzer all have a 2.6+ saves to conceeding ratio, Hart, Frediel, Gomez have a 3.1+, Van der Sar has a 4.1 while Al has a 1.9
And off all those keepers, who was in the media the most for having one shocker after another?
As for compared goalie and outfield stats, tell me which of these two tables look factual
note: Van der Sar isn't there because he played considerably less games.
Neither of them
Stats are for people who are too lazy to watch games, or have no confidence in their own ability to judge a player by watching him play...they are almost meaningless..
Bergkamp-Genius wrote:Stats are for people who are too lazy to watch games, or have no confidence in their own ability to judge a player by watching him play...they are almost meaningless..
Are league tables classed as stats....? Meaningless?
GunnerDude wrote:Well if the number of goals our team conceeded which is infact a STATS doesn't help us conclude that our defence is crap then whats the point.
Stats play a big part in any and everything. Its science
There in is the problem with stats, because no the number of goals a team concedes does not necessarily mean the defence is crap, it could mean the defence gets no protection from the midfield, which is why you have to watch the game to find out what the reality is not read stats...
GunnerDude wrote:Well if the number of goals our team conceeded which is infact a STATS doesn't help us conclude that our defence is crap then whats the point.
Stats play a big part in any and everything. Its science
You are sooooo close to getting banned... I have posted many many times that stats are a load of bollocks. You cannot quantify something like football without qualifying it etc etc.
Any more stats nonsense and you are gone dude. Gone.
GunnerDude wrote:Well if the number of goals our team conceeded which is infact a STATS doesn't help us conclude that our defence is crap then whats the point.
Stats play a big part in any and everything. Its science
There in is the problem with stats, because no the number of goals a team concedes does not necessarily mean the defence is crap, it could mean the defence gets no protection from the midfield, which is why you have to watch the game to find out what the reality is not read stats...
Does that mean the stats suggest that the entire team is crap.
GunnerDude wrote:Well if the number of goals our team conceeded which is infact a STATS doesn't help us conclude that our defence is crap then whats the point.
Stats play a big part in any and everything. Its science
There in is the problem with stats, because no the number of goals a team concedes does not necessarily mean the defence is crap, it could mean the defence gets no protection from the midfield, which is why you have to watch the game to find out what the reality is not read stats...
Does that mean the stats suggest that the entire team is crap.
There are stats for everything and just because we are not privy to every since one doesn't mean if put together it wont tell you the source of our problems.
I like to watch and know the stats of a player before I draw any conclusions. Jose would probably tell you the same
MegaGooner wrote:Maybe since Italia is out of the WC early we can get Chiellini on the cheap
Yea i was thinking maybe we should put a sneaky bid in for Chiellini, i thought he looked pretty good in the games i have seen him play in.
But having looked at his stats i've changed my mind, by all accounts he picks his nose every 6 minutes and scratches his arse every 9 minutes which is much higher than the average for quality centre halfs..who pick their nose only every 12 minutes and scratch their arse only every 18 minutes as i'm sure you can see that means he is just not good enough for us......pity...
GunnerDude wrote:There are stats for everything and just because we are not privy to every since one doesn't mean if put together it wont tell you the source of our problems.
I like to watch and know the stats of a player before I draw any conclusions. Jose would probably tell you the same
Not impressive at all , they can keep him .