F*cking Old Bill get Away With It Again!!!!

[flash gunner]

Very good post DB10

I think the bigger worry is that this bloke was given 3 post mortems and they come back with 3 different results as to cause of death. Surely in the 21st century we can identify what has killed someone. This is the reasons no charges can be brought against the policeman as there is no proof his actions caused death it is not a cover up.... By that description ive just made it sound like a cover up but i really dont think it was

[northbankbren]

DB10 I have to agree that not all coppers are bad. But the question I ask is why when there are so many other areas in the forced to apply for would anyone want to join the riot squad?

In my opinion 95% of those who do, do it for the physical altercation (The Ruck). I also have a friend who is in the riot squad (not sure what section or any or that, but know he does big footy games in london and a lot of the dawn raids on drug dens and the likes), now to meet him he's a really nice guy but he is open about work being boring when it doesn't kick off. He done the FA cup final this year and i met him after the game, he was proper let down that nothing had happened, this is a trait in my mate i dont like....but he's honest about about it. There are so many more jobs in the force that pay more that they could apply for, so why the riot squad?

As for the paper seller, I agree on the look of the video he's walking very slowly away, too slowly away....But this is my point.....

The guy clearly wasnt all their in the brain department and this is the problem, he should be protected rather than attacked, especially considering all he had done was walk past. I mentioned it before, but what about a blind person who has lost their stick, a deaf person, or anyone with a mental handicap who may not fully understand what is going on around them and are just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

These people need to be protected, and while the police use the tactics they do to combat these events more and more INNOCENT people will end up hurt or killed.

[g88ner]

Has anyone seen the video of this? The paper seller who was pushed over was purposely walking slowly in front of the police with snarling dogs and everything else, now in a situation like that (the G20 riots happening) he was asking to be 'moved' out of the way. Im not saying he deserved to die but if you bait the police when they are in a pressure situation then youre asking for trouble!! Personally i would have been off like a shot if i had nothing to do with the protests (as he apparently didnt)

The push itself shouldnt have killed anyone its not like they shot him and the fact he died was really unfortunate especially for him and his family but i think the crux of this investigation was it couldnt be proven one way or another if the push killed him so it couldnt go to court, not a whitewash IMO

Well summed up, Flash!

[g88ner]

Its a discgrace and a cover up. In the last 50 years over 1000 people have died in police custody....the amount of convictions following these deaths.....zero.....sums it up.

Sums it up?? really??

Can I have a link please, because I'd be quite interested to know the cause of death of many of these 1000 people who died in custody, because I'd be amazed if police brutality was the main cause, or even near the top of the list! - most likely alcohol, drug overdoses, prisoner infighting, and other health/injury related causes, etc. were the main reasons, no??

I just don't think it's right to make a comment like that without backing it up. So please, back it up!

Anyway, you call it a disgrace and a cover up, but after 3 autopsy's, the cause of death remains uncertain. Now, surely you can appreciate that finding someone is to blame for a persons death - beyond reasonable doubt - must be very difficult if the cause of death cannot be verified! - hell, maybe there was a cover up, but you don't know that.... well, not beyond reasonable doubt, do you? - and that's the difference; you can fling as much mud as you want BUT thankfully the courts require a little more evidence than that.

[QuartzGooner]

I think the guy was obviously not the full shilling....he was deliberately being a twat and trying to antagonise the police and as Flash was suggesting considering what was going on that day he was asking for trouble..

100% agreed. In Oireland we have a certain middle class type of arsehole that gets involved in these type of things just to piss mommy and daddy off.

Two points though.

We also have that middle class type of "trying to be down" here.

Once I was on the dole for six months, and I went for a job selling ad space at the Daily Telegraph. On way back from interview I saw a bloke who was a friend of a friend, and he was surprised to see me in a suit, and I told him where I had been and he snarled, "Torygraph".
I later found out that this bloke was a trust fund kid who acted as if he was from some inner city estate to try and act what he considered "cool".

But..

The guy who died in the clip above, was an Evening Standard seller, in the days before it was a free evening paper. That is not a well paid job, and I believe he was just walking home after selling papers in the area the demonstration happened.
That said he was trying to antagonise the police with a slow walk, but in my opinion he should have been held, cuffed and told to stop messing about, then released after five minutes, rather than pushed.

[SPUDMASHER]

My problem is the fact that just being somewhere makes YOU a target. it most certainly does. Try having a stroll down the high street in Kabul and see if you're a target And i really dont buy into the whole, you should know the score when it comes to riot police.

They are trained in crowd control. They are trained that force is the last resort. no they're not, they're trained to use force early to strike quick and prevent escalation Its their job to spot trouble makers. The fact that any trouble at any protest and those innocents who are hurt are told you shouldnt be there, or you should know not to get in their way, its rubbish it's perfectly fair. Any halfwit with half a brain knows how these things can turn in an instant....if you've never experienced them how do you know what to do? Also what if you are a bit mentally challenged, slow, deaf, whatever these people have to be taken into account. from the police point of view that's too risky. what if they're hamming it up waiting for an opportunity to have a go? Police never take that chance

If these coppers done their jobs properly they did incidents like this wouldnt happen. neither would they if the public knew how to control themselves I suppose it was that woman who got slapped in the face by the coppers fault because her face wasa in the way of his hand. women are among the worst in these situations, trust them less than men. Nasty violent little fuckers given half a chance

Its not as if this guy was in a big crowd that they charged, he was singled out.

A cousin of mine was at a protest a few years back. Deep in a crowd almost 200 yards away from the police. A bunch of idiots obviously started trouble with the cops up where they were, but none of this was visable from where my cousin was. From behind the police rushed the crowd. Chaos as the crowd ran, my cousins girlfriend fell and was being trampled by the running crowd. My cousin grabbed he arm and wouldnt let go as he didnt want to lose her in the crush and knew she was in trouble, he couldnt see the rest of her body as there were so many people scrambling from the police. what bastards, just goes to show you can't trust those 'brothers' protesting with you

The next thing he knows he wakes up in a corner with people surrounding him on the floor, blood pouring from a massive cut on his chin. He was out of it for a few minutes but when he a come around was told he's been whacked by truncheon. He then realised his girlfriend wasnt to be seen. After almost an hour looking they found each other. They were now penned in by the police and not able to leave. His girlfriend paniced to see his face still bleeding....she convinced him to walk over to a group of coppers by an ambulance to see if they could get some help and were told to "fuck off" another copper actually walked over and sang "i fought the law and the law won" and then told em to piss off. top banana

Two people on a peaceful protest no it wasn't! you said yourself that a 'bunch of idiots' started on the police as far away as they could get, and yet they were subjected to this!!!!! So i dont buy into the stay away from them theory.

If the police handled the situations in a better manner things like this wouldnt happen. Riot Police are just THUGS WITH BADGES AND BATS!!!!!!!!!

stop now.....you're giving me a stiffy

[mrgnu1958]

[northbankbren]

mashed potato............what a muppet you are .....please keep your long absences from this place.....longer

And g88ner I dont need to prove anything....how wbout you give me the evidence of just 1 conviction when someone died in police custody...............JUST 1.....then we can start our debate.....you'll find you wont be able too though.....yeah mate they all slipped or overdosed....what scum they all are Thank god for the great unviolent poice eh

[Bergkamp-Genius]

BG What are you on about!!!!!!!!

The guy was a evening standard seller.

He wasnt at the protest, he was at bloody work!!!!

As for antagonising the police??? The guy was walking away with his back turned with his hands in his bloody pocket!!!!!!!!!!!

And Flash come on mate....purposely walking slowly in front of police ......shit, he should have been shot for that

As for the push, we really have no idea what effect it had on his body. People have died after far less, and the fact is this guy ended up dead so it clearly had a serious effect.

As for asking for trouble??? Anyone who has seen the footage and read up on the story would know that is absoulute bollocks!!!!!! And anyone you thinks this is just as bad as the riot police who take that job because they like to fight. I have seen first hand what tactic the riot police use and to say these guys clearly signed up for that role because they like a ruck is an understatement.

Its a discgrace and a cover up. In the last 50 years over 1000 people have died in police custody....the amount of convictions following these deaths.....zero.....sums it up.

He wasn't working he was acting the twat...what difference does it make if he's an evening standard seller it doesn't mean he is averse to being a twat..
It's a pet hate of mine this kind of shit..people who give it large in situations where they think they can get away with it, due to the fact that they think the police or whoever they are dealing with are restricted in their response due to their job or the environment they are in...
If you want to give it large go for it, but do it because you are prepared to deal with whatever comes of that, not because you think you can act up and feel like a hero at others expense with no risk of a reaction..

[SPUDMASHER]

mashed potato............what a muppet you are .....please keep your long absences from this place.....longer

I'm guessing that means you disagree!!!!

Unfortunately I have experience of these things and how the police work so I can honestly say that this guy was an unfortunate victim of the disease known as 'beingadickthengettingwhatwascoming'. The fact that he died was most unfortunate but he was probably just unlucky enough to have been in the 0.0001% of the UK population that would have done so from being pushed over.

The bottom line, that cannot be denied by anyone, is that if the protestors were not there neither would the police have been!

[northbankbren]

I'm guessing that means you disagree!!!!

Unfortunately I have experience of these things and how the police work so I can honestly say that this guy was an unfortunate victim of the disease known as 'beingadickthengettingwhatwascoming'. The fact that he died was most unfortunate but he was probably just unlucky enough to have been in the 0.0001% of the UK population that would have done so from being pushed over.

The bottom line, that cannot be denied by anyone, is that if the protestors were not there neither would the police have been!

No it seems you disagree with yourself

So he "got what was coming to him"....but it was unfourtunate he died

er ok. Your not confused at all are you.

[SPUDMASHER]

I'm guessing that means you disagree!!!!

Unfortunately I have experience of these things and how the police work so I can honestly say that this guy was an unfortunate victim of the disease known as 'beingadickthengettingwhatwascoming'. The fact that he died was most unfortunate but he was probably just unlucky enough to have been in the 0.0001% of the UK population that would have done so from being pushed over.

The bottom line, that cannot be denied by anyone, is that if the protestors were not there neither would the police have been!

No it seems you disagree with yourself

So he "got what was coming to him"....but it was unfourtunate he died

er ok. Your not confused at all are you.

Okay, I'll clarify that for the hard of thinking. He got what was coming to him in as much as he was shoved out of the way forcefully as a result of dicking around in front of a bunch of riot cops. It was however most unfortunate that this resulted in his dying.

[northbankbren]

So walking AWAY from the police (trouble) constitutes dicking around or antagonising?

I just don’t get that opinion at all.

So much defence for the actions of the officer.

Even the police have admitted that this shouldn’t have happened and the officers actions were wrong.

What did the policeman think shoving him to the ground would achieve? And what did it achieve?

It won’t and didn’t make him move any faster, it won’t and didn’t help control the situation, it won’t and didn’t go any way to resolving or calming down anyone....the actions of that policeman led the situation becoming worse....FACT.

It was antagonism and aggression at an extreme level.

How can anyone accuse this innocent dead man of getting what was coming to him on the evidence of that tape and the witness accounts given?

It was manslaughter.

sometimes i feel like Winston Smith on this forum .....without the bad ending of course

[pixie]

I'm guessing that means you disagree!!!!

Unfortunately I have experience of these things and how the police work so I can honestly say that this guy was an unfortunate victim of the disease known as 'beingadickthengettingwhatwascoming'. The fact that he died was most unfortunate but he was probably just unlucky enough to have been in the 0.0001% of the UK population that would have done so from being pushed over.

The bottom line, that cannot be denied by anyone, is that if the protestors were not there neither would the police have been!

No it seems you disagree with yourself

So he "got what was coming to him"....but it was unfourtunate he died

er ok. Your not confused at all are you.

Okay, I'll clarify that for the hard of thinking. He got what was coming to him in as much as he was shoved out of the way forcefully as a result of dicking around in front of a bunch of riot cops. It was however most unfortunate that this resulted in his dying.

Only in this country would someone who pushed someone over be deemed a murderer and someone who shoots 3 people in cold blood be treated as a martyr and a hero........

[Bergkamp-Genius]

So walking AWAY from the police (trouble) constitutes dicking around or antagonising?

I just don’t get that opinion at all.

So much defence for the actions of the officer.

Even the police have admitted that this shouldn’t have happened and the officers actions were wrong.

What did the policeman think shoving him to the ground would achieve? And what did it achieve?

It won’t and didn’t make him move any faster, it won’t and didn’t help control the situation, it won’t and didn’t go any way to resolving or calming down anyone....the actions of that policeman led the situation becoming worse....FACT.

It was antagonism and aggression at an extreme level.

How can anyone accuse this innocent dead man of getting what was coming to him on the evidence of that tape and the witness accounts given?

It was manslaughter.

sometimes i feel like Winston Smith on this forum .....without the bad ending of course

He wasn't just walking 'away' from the police.. he was deliberately slowly walking in front of them because he thought he was being a hero..

I guarantee you if that was a bunch of Millwall fans aggressive and looking for aggro then you would have seen the difference between your idea of walking away and really walking away, because he would have been off like a shot worried about getting his head caved in..Whereas in this case he thought he could act the big rebellious hero by pissing the police off and nothing would happen..he was wrong and he was an idiot to put himself in a position where he had to find out he was wrong..

Personally i think what the officer did was a bit over the top and maybe he should have been reprimanded a bit but that doesn't mean the dead guy was in the right, he wasn't.
If anything should be learnt from this case it's that if there is trouble and there are riot police around then if your really not involved then give them a wide berth. Or if you really want to be a one minute rebel expect to get hurt for your moment of glory...