fuck off wenger...

[USMartin]

What proof do you have that the Board is ready to make such an agreement with a new manager that will exceed what the Board are happy to spend - or not spend - now?

It's a silly question Martin as how can anyone prove that? The same as you can't prove that a new manager wouldn't be handed a £60m+ war chest to play with.

But you find no fault with the Board as you state earlier being perfectly happy with that and showing no desire whatsoever to change it?

Or if you do you still don't believe that suggests that things would be different if the Board wanted them to be and that it is not possible that the Board could be deciding not to spend the money and that even so you do not feel the desire to criticize them for that?

That really is quite remarkable if that is the case.

The key again is this putting aside the reast of your post which addresses a different scenario, but can you be certain that scking the current manager will lead to improvement in this team as it stands because as you acknowledge you can't really guarntee that there will be more money available to Mr. Wenger's replacement as has been to Mr. Wenger.

In other words sacking Mr. Wenger just to punish someone could do further damage to the situation at Arsenal rather than fix the situation, and I would assume you don't want that any more than I do really, no?

If I thought the Board had actually made more money to the manager as you believe I would agree fully with you. But where is the evidence of that bsides sound bites from the Board or Manager which so far seem to have no evidence whatsoever supporting them.

We both want to see things fixed. I don't want to see things made worse before they can be made better. I don't think you do either. So that question is a bit less silly than you suggest honestly.

[USMartin]

The fact remains that IF Wenger fails to strengthen where needed this season and we finish below 4th, then there is a good chance Wenger will not be here next season (ie: he may walk). If he does, the board have a decision to make as we won't be in the CL (which I understand they have budgeted for, for one year out of the CL), we will need a new manager to get us back IN the CL. To attract the kind of manager who may do that, will probably take a reasonably large sum of money considering how average many of the squad are under Wenger. So yes I do believe the board would make money available in that situation, probably not 60m but quite possibly 30m. You often see it happen, where a manager is not given money to spend, he goes and a new manager gets money to spend!
Having said that, I firmly believe Wenger has a fair sized pot of cash but CHOOSES not to spend it.

I share meny of the concerns you express here - they have haunted me really since we sold Patrick Vieira and began this "transition" we are still in by the looks of it in the summer of 2005.

The thing is you - and the Board I wouild suspect - underestmate the nature of the challenge we will face should that happen.

It will require over 60 million to be spent. Now if say the Board will provide 30 million plus all funds from the sales of Fabregas (if he's not already gone now) Arshavin,, and maybe VanPersie and Vermaelen, then 30 million might be sufficient.

But even then if the Board are unwilling to use a more ambitous wage structure, it won't natter a jot how much is available for transfers as we still will struggle to sign like-for-like repolacements in terms of quality or experience.

My guess is that we would have to spend upwards of 75-100 million in transfers and blow our wage scale to bits if that were to happen or the more likely scenario under any manager would be further decline immediately, and then as ticket sales almost inevitably decline and in a few years Club Level renewals as well if this decline does in fact continue then paying off the debt becomes a genuine issue unless you are willing to risk even sharper decline - historical decline perhaps.

This is what the Board ' s - as I see it - under-investment has risked every year since 2005 really, setting a cycle of more serious and longer-term decline of a potentially drastic and disastrous nature.

See planning for one year without Champions League football ignores the reality that unless we invest a dramatic amount - a record amount - of money there will not simply be this "one-year" scenario they refer to very optimistically at best.

That's why the problem is so critical and has to be corrected not merely addressed.

[Bring Back Pires]

Posts are too long. Only so many hours in the day...

[TeeCee]

all saying the same thing too.

Bottom line is Martin, managers come and go, board members tend to stick around. I don't believe there is anything the fans can do about the board barring boycotting games but we are all too dedicated to Arsenal to do that. It's down to your own beliefs as to whether the main problem at Arsenal is the board/Wenger or a bit of both. All I know is that a change of manager is a million times more likely than a change of board and if we have to change our manager (whether Wenger may walk or is pushed eventually) then the board has to back a new manager and please don't question whether they will back him because in any business in the world when a new manager is taken on, at that moment he has the backing of senior management/the board and if they go back on that then the manager leaves and the club eventually gets into a complete mess, which I don't think the board will allow.

Arsenal do have a decent wage structure if you believe reports (and that's all we can do). We pay our top stars around £100k a week, that's enough to attract anyone once you take into account bonuses, signing on fees and things like image rights. I do think you let your obsession with the board overcome any other discussion/argument.

[merson_is_god]

We need 1 goalkeeper and 1 holding midfielder.

[Louder]

Posts are too long. Only so many hours in the day...

Have to agree.

By the way. Pires was a fuc*king genious. And it's only IMO, but possibly the greatest to play for The Arsenal. Although Ray Parlour is also one of my greats for different reasons. Wenger really improved his game !!

I digress

[USMartin]

Arsenal do have a decent wage structure if you believe reports (and that's all we can do). We pay our top stars around £100k a week, that's enough to attract anyone once you take into account bonuses, signing on fees and things like image rights. I do think you let your obsession with the board overcome any other discussion/argument.

Why is that all we can do? Seriously. We have to believe because they say it?

Again in 2004 our wage bill was 69 million pounds Yet not only was Thierry Henry paid in excess of 120 K a week and Sol Campbell was right around 90K. then Both were among the 25 Highest Paid European Footballers Yet despite a significantly higher wage bill that our own Board touts we have only one player at 90K a week now and he is only the 47th Highest Paid European Footballer.

I have pointed out again and again how United has four players in that same list last year, sven in 2008, and five in 2007 over the same perios we had zero and one players.

Or perhaps most damning how the 2009 list features SEVEN ex-Arsenal players including FOUR Invincibles all on higher wages than at Arsenal save Thierry Henry who for one last year was a higher wage than his Barca wage.

And you could also note that at Pompey Sol Campbell was on a higher wage than he made at Arsenal in 2007 and 2008 as well. We know Edu left because the Board didn't want to pay him morre money as did Flamini

So We can point to having only one player among the fifty highest Paid Footballers In Europe while Man U have FOUR, Chelsea SEVEN, Man City SEVEN. The last tywo numbers matched only by the number of FORMER ARSENAL PLAYERS in the list at SEVEN.

We can Also add in Sol Campbell among those players in 2007 and 2008 Fifty Highest Paid Footballers. And we know reports strongly suggest both Edu and Flamini left because the Club and Board didn't want to pay them the same or higher wages. And Edu confirmed as much in the interview on Arsenal Brazil about the club avoiding negotiating a new deal.

And then of course there is the Premier League's Report Documenting how the Board chose not to offer Ashley Cole the 60K a week as recommended by Arsene Wenger and David Dein whose recommendation were constantly listened to from 1998-2005.

That is a WHOLE LOT of smoke for there not to be SOME fire, no?

So we have more we can do than just believe the reports after all. Its whether you want to do more than believe the reports maybe that is the issue, perhaps?