EMIRATES CUP THREAD

[M-50]

I'll shut up now!

[mikeyb772001]

I think Theo does have something in him that can be great at Arsenal. However if he carries on playing 9on the right like that it will never happen.
Again it’s Wenger to blame as clearly Theo isn’t technically minded to play on the wing

[QuartzGooner]

It is interesting that for all his obvious faults, most of us in this discussion think Theo has got something in his game that could make him a very useful player.

There are fans who want to sell him, but when you take a bit of time to think about the best bits of his game, the reality becomes clearer that this was a player who was doing very good things at youth, reserves, England Under 21 and full England level just two years ago.

He has not been a guy who goes out on the piss in the clubs, so loss of form boils down to serious shoulder injuries, leading to minor strain injuries and loss of confidence.

Playing wide right which is probably not his best position makes it harder.

Throw in the poor form of our strikers in second half of last season, and an ongoing fault of our players (RvP excepted) not getting into the box, and Theo has been up against it.

Sort of player who has never said a bad word about the club, and deserves support to help him get back to his best, because that is in all our interests.

[mikeyb772001]

It is interesting that for all his obvious faults, most of us in this discussion think Theo has got something in his game that could make him a very useful player.

There are fans who want to sell him, but when you take a bit of time to think about the best bits of his game, the reality becomes clearer that this was a player who was doing very good things at youth, reserves, England Under 21 and full England level just two years ago.

He has not been a guy who goes out on the piss in the clubs, so loss of form boils down to serious shoulder injuries, leading to minor strain injuries and loss of confidence.

Playing wide right which is probably not his best position makes it harder.

Throw in the poor form of our strikers in second half of last season, and an ongoing fault of our players (RvP excepted) not getting into the box, and Theo has been up against it.

Sort of player who has never said a bad word about the club, and deserves support to help him get back to his best, because that is in all our interests.

Theo loves Asrenal, i always give him support at teh grove. Lets hope he has a better season!

[augie]

Cannot for the life of me understand why people continue to defend theo on the basis of him being a striker In my opinion his four seasons have shown countless examples of very sub-standard shooting/finishing and even for vela's goal yesterday it was clearly a wayward shot from theo that turned into a cross I remember a game against the chavs (at the grove) two seasons ago when he had 2 or 3 great chances to put us ahead and fcuked them all up and we ended up losing that game 4-1.......at the top level you cannot afford to miss chances like that.

M50, you state that theo didnt need to improve as he was doing well as a 15yr old striker for southampton when we signed up but frankly that is laughable - firstly he was playing in the championship but secondly if you believe that he was the finished article when we bought him then you are dillusional mate Hand on your heart are you rating theo's performances based on highlights from his matches then or were you watching full matches ? How many chances did it take to score them goals ? Were his goals mostly against the poorer teams ? As has been said on here many times stats (and that includes number of goals scored) only tell you so much and I have to say he has shown fcuk all since he joined us. I know some people will point to his hat-trick v croatia but ray parlour scored two hat-tricks for us in his time and nobody can claim him to be a striker or good enough finisher

[M-50]

Cannot for the life of me understand why people continue to defend theo on the basis of him being a striker In my opinion his four seasons have shown countless examples of very sub-standard shooting/finishing and even for vela's goal yesterday it was clearly a wayward shot from theo that turned into a cross I remember a game against the chavs (at the grove) two seasons ago when he had 2 or 3 great chances to put us ahead and fcuked them all up and we ended up losing that game 4-1.......at the top level you cannot afford to miss chances like that.

M50, you state that theo didnt need to improve as he was doing well as a 15yr old striker for southampton when we signed up but frankly that is laughable - firstly he was playing in the championship but secondly if you believe that he was the finished article when we bought him then you are dillusional mate Hand on your heart are you rating theo's performances based on highlights from his matches then or were you watching full matches ? How many chances did it take to score them goals ? Were his goals mostly against the poorer teams ? As has been said on here many times stats (and that includes number of goals scored) only tell you so much and I have to say he has shown fcuk all since he joined us. I know some people will point to his hat-trick v croatia but ray parlour scored two hat-tricks for us in his time and nobody can claim him to be a striker or good enough finisher

You find it laughable because he was playing in the Championship and because I am dillusional. Huh, that makes no sense?

My comment was "what exactly did he have to improve"? His pace - No. His touch - No. His finishing - No. 3 main attributes the player had so he didn't need to improve in those areas, he needed to progress and translate his skill to a higher level which can be argued he has failed to do, but, one of the reasons for that is because he wasn't tried out in the role that he was purchased from.

To say he has shown f*ck off is a little naive. He's showed his pace and touch, and on occasions his finishing. That's what we purchased. What else do you expect? To cross a ball from deep? He hardly crossed a ball from deep at the age of 9 to 16 when he was the main striker on the pitch?

This isn't FIFA 11 on the Xbox whereby you give Walcott all the attributes he needs to be an accomplished winger. Yet, it seems that way!

[USMartin]

It is interesting that for all his obvious faults, most of us in this discussion think Theo has got something in his game that could make him a very useful player.

There are fans who want to sell him, but when you take a bit of time to think about the best bits of his game, the reality becomes clearer that this was a player who was doing very good things at youth, reserves, England Under 21 and full England level just two years ago.

He has not been a guy who goes out on the piss in the clubs, so loss of form boils down to serious shoulder injuries, leading to minor strain injuries and loss of confidence.

Playing wide right which is probably not his best position makes it harder.

Throw in the poor form of our strikers in second half of last season, and an ongoing fault of our players (RvP excepted) not getting into the box, and Theo has been up against it.

Sort of player who has never said a bad word about the club, and deserves support to help him get back to his best, because that is in all our interests.

I think that over-simplifies things a lot. Theo can be a pretty good player yet, no doubt.

The problem is he can't be Thierry Henry EVER but the club have effectively sold him as the new Henry since his arrival - look at that shirt number. As good as he is or can be, on that basis Theo can only fail really now and in the future. That's why I just got sick when I heard they gave him the 14 jersey because it was only going to make his shortcomings as player relative to Henry that much more obvious and undermine just letting him become the decent forward/wide man I really feel he can be. In that regard I do agree about the confidence issues because the frustartion with supporters about him not being nearly as good as our last number 14 have made their genuine criticisms of his play even unduly harsh and even hostile and that cannot be good for any player's confidence.

But honestly where Thierry Henry was a brilliant World-Class footballer blessed some World-Class pace , Theo Walcott is a brilliiant World-Class sprinter blessed with some Premiership-level footballing skills. They never were and never will be like-for-like. The big mistake that has been made is in tryign to sell Theo as a like-for-like replacement. It was horribly unfair to him and to the supporters.

[marcengels]

Stop. Now.

[g88ner]

What exactly did he have to improve?

As a youth (I'm talking 15, 16) he had more pace than any other footballer his age, he scored goals as if the nets were 50 feet high and wide and his control of the ball, especially his first touch, and movement was top-class (rarely unseen before at youth level).

He didn't necessarily have to improve, he just needed to continue what he was doing to senior level.

I understand the level he was at compared to Arsenal is completely different but he was head and shoulders over the best youths in the english game.

I think the formation has worked against Theo and Vela. Both were prolific youth strikers, yet as Arsenal only play one up front, it means they're played on the wing, which is a bit unfair really.

I do wonder whether Anelka's progress would have been so swift if he was in the current setup. He played as a striker, with Bergkamp playing just off him - but would he, at 17 or 18, be played as a lone striker with us now? or played out wide like Theo, Vela and Bendtner?

[Bergkamp-Genius]

I use to think Theo would come good but i just don't see it now. The problem is the way we play just doesn't suit his game. We press teams back or teams sit deep against us and soak up pressure but leave little space in the last third and behind, Theo hasn't the brain or the ability to deal with that situation, sometimes he gets it right but in general he is a headless chicken, with most players at this level getting the end product wrong is the exception with Theo getting the end product right is the exception..
The only way i can see Theo coming good for us will be if we change our style of play and start sitting back and drawing teams on to us, so we can hit them on the break, then Theo will have lots of space to run at and in behind the opposition that is when he looks dangerous.. but that is not going to happen so i see no future for him with us, we would be doing him a favour if we unloaded him to a team that plays a style that is more suited to his game...

[Its Up 4 Grabs Now]

What exactly did he have to improve?

As a youth (I'm talking 15, 16) he had more pace than any other footballer his age, he scored goals as if the nets were 50 feet high and wide and his control of the ball, especially his first touch, and movement was top-class (rarely unseen before at youth level).

He didn't necessarily have to improve, he just needed to continue what he was doing to senior level.

I understand the level he was at compared to Arsenal is completely different but he was head and shoulders over the best youths in the english game.

I think the formation has worked against Theo and Vela. Both were prolific youth strikers, yet as Arsenal only play one up front, it means they're played on the wing, which is a bit unfair really.

I do wonder whether Anelka's progress would have been so swift if he was in the current setup. He played as a striker, with Bergkamp playing just off him - but would he, at 17 or 18, be played as a lone striker with us now? or played out wide like Theo, Vela and Bendtner?

Maybe but you could also argue the wide role in the front 3 should be practically tailor-made for Walcott. He doesn’t have to play with his back to goal & he should still be able to make runs in behind the defence - perhaps even more so than if he was up front. It’s ideal for a pacy player to makes runs into the channel between CB & FB & exploit that space.

In theory he shouldn’t be required to hug the touchline the way a more orthodox winger in a 4-4-2 would, and he has little to no defensive duties. So he should have more freedom to find space in dangerous positions, get on the ball (facing goal) & be able to run at defences on the back foot. And either way being played “out of positionâ€

[USMartin]

What exactly did he have to improve?

As a youth (I'm talking 15, 16) he had more pace than any other footballer his age, he scored goals as if the nets were 50 feet high and wide and his control of the ball, especially his first touch, and movement was top-class (rarely unseen before at youth level).

He didn't necessarily have to improve, he just needed to continue what he was doing to senior level.

I understand the level he was at compared to Arsenal is completely different but he was head and shoulders over the best youths in the english game.

I think the formation has worked against Theo and Vela. Both were prolific youth strikers, yet as Arsenal only play one up front, it means they're played on the wing, which is a bit unfair really.

I do wonder whether Anelka's progress would have been so swift if he was in the current setup. He played as a striker, with Bergkamp playing just off him - but would he, at 17 or 18, be played as a lone striker with us now? or played out wide like Theo, Vela and Bendtner?

Maybe but you could also argue the wide role in the front 3 should be practically tailor-made for Walcott. He doesn’t have to play with his back to goal & he should still be able to make runs in behind the defence - perhaps even more so than if he was up front. It’s ideal for a pacy player to makes runs into the channel between CB & FB & exploit that space.

In theory he shouldn’t be required to hug the touchline the way a more orthodox winger in a 4-4-2 would, and he has little to no defensive duties. So he should have more freedom to find space in dangerous positions, get on the ball (facing goal) & be able to run at defences on the back foot. And either way being played “out of positionâ€

[g88ner]

And was Theo ever "prolific" at any level of any note? Genuine question.

He scored plenty throughout his youth career from when he started out until his mid-teens.

The he broke into the Southampton side, and then we swooped in when he was 16 - and ever since then, he's been a wide player.

I'm not saying it excuses Theo, but it does explain his poor crossing and passing. I actually think he makes some very good runs, and gets into some very good positions, but his final ball is shocking.

I'd keep the lad as I think, regardless of his wayward final ball, things happen when he's on the pitch (especially at the end of games) - in that way, he's a bit like Crouch. Not always great to watch, and a tad unorthodox, but they can be effective in an odd kind of way

[USMartin]

And was Theo ever "prolific" at any level of any note? Genuine question.

He scored plenty throughout his youth career from when he started out until his mid-teens.

The he broke into the Southampton side, and then we swooped in when he was 16 - and ever since then, he's been a wide player.

I'm not saying it excuses Theo, but it does explain his poor crossing and passing. I actually think he makes some very good runs, and gets into some very good positions, but his final ball is shocking.

I'd keep the lad as I think, regardless of his wayward final ball, things happen when he's on the pitch (especially at the end of games) - in that way, he's a bit like Crouch. Not always great to watch, and a tad unorthodox, but they can be effective in an odd kind of way

He's about worth keeping when you view him that way instead of the way many tend to view him - or tended to early on. He can be a good player who can help us win things but he'll never be more than that which if he fulfills his real potential and is that good and helps us win that many things will make him a hero and even a legend anyway.

But giving him the number 14 is just stupid and just bad for and unfair to him and massively so.

[Its Up 4 Grabs Now]

And was Theo ever "prolific" at any level of any note? Genuine question.

He scored plenty throughout his youth career from when he started out until his mid-teens.

The he broke into the Southampton side, and then we swooped in when he was 16 - and ever since then, he's been a wide player.

I'm not saying it excuses Theo, but it does explain his poor crossing and passing. I actually think he makes some very good runs, and gets into some very good positions, but his final ball is shocking.

I'd keep the lad as I think, regardless of his wayward final ball, things happen when he's on the pitch (especially at the end of games) - in that way, he's a bit like Crouch. Not always great to watch, and a tad unorthodox, but they can be effective in an odd kind of way

That’s kind of my point though. He may have been prolific at 12,13 etc but that really counts for absolutely nowt (just for you that one t’lad ), and we bought him at 16 when, as far as I can remember, he’d played barely half a season’s worth of games & scored a Beadle’s right-handful of goals. Nothing wrong with that sort of record given his age but hardly the watertight evidence of his proven finishing that some people seem to be suggesting.

Not sure about his England U21 tally but I’m pretty sure it was relatively similar. Again nothing wrong with that in itself, but the sole “proofâ€