I don't understand the reason for Anti-England sentiments...

[Cus Geezer]

.....from English Arsenal fans.

I can understand the annoyance from every Talksport/tabloid influenced armchair pundit in the land blaming Arsenal for England's demise (or actually if you look at England's record - consistancy). But why fight stupidity with stupidity?

I often get the feeling that some of this pro-Arsenal = anti-England thing is fuelled by people who chose Arsenal/football in general as a lifestyle choice when an adult and had no intention or wish to be a pro-footballer as a kid. Arsenal with their multicultured chic they were smitten with - the Estuarine accented England brand they thought too vulgar.

I still support the same sides as I did when I was six - and from that age until reality called aged 16 I wanted to score in a Cup final for my side (Arsenal) and in a World Cup final for my country - the only one I'm qualified to represent (England). There was no contradiction then as from this time we had Anderson, Sansom, Adams, Woodcock, Mariner and Williams in contention for the England squad.

The fact that no England players are good enough for Arsenal today makes about as much difference to me as the fact that from the predominantly English Arsenal sides in 1966 and 1990 none of them were good enough for England. If you look at crowd footage from Italia 90 - coupled with the fact that the two star players Gazza and Lineker played for the Spuds - it didn't make a difference to quite a few red JVC shirts following England.

In my ideal world the Arsenal XI and England XI would be the exact same players and World Club/World Cup champions (in my ideal world farts would also smell of perfume, but hey!) - but the fact that isn't so doesn't have me boiling over with anger either. I'd rather England players reached our standards rather than us lowering ours to incorporate English players. And from a colleague who is a friend of Kerrea Gilbert I know for a fact Wenger has no prejudice against English players - affirmed from a player who is currently doing the footballing outposts on loan.

As pointed out earlier the media and the plankton types who merely regurgitate what they read will blame Arsenal, but we have some here who have bitten that bait with enthusiasm. Tony Saunders has commented that he doesn't find international football interesting - bit of a funny thing to say about a level of football where you cannot buy success but live of what you've produced yourself. Granted it does bring out the morons forever banging on about WW2 - but uninteresting?

I found some odd comments with the article about hiprocrasy over the Capello appointment, like this one....

'I stopped watching our national team in the mid 1990’s when I grew tired of watching the likes of David Batty and Phil Neville being outclassed by Dennis Bergkamp and Gabriel Batistuta'

well if you regard the mid 90s to be 1994-1996 - neither Bergkamp nor Batistuta outclass us. We never played Argentina in this period and we beat Holland 4-1.

When Batistuta played us in 1998 - he was up against Sol Campbell, Tony Adams and David Seaman (if only England had more Arsenal players eh!) and depends what you mean by 'class' - in 1998 he had a private bungee jump at Seaman's expense in the 1st minute. In 2002 he seemed intent on kicking his way into the 2nd round against England.

I also find it an odd sentiment - they were shit so I lost interest - god knows how he would have handled Arsenal circa 1983.

And another comment in the Gooner recently about there not being an English player that didn't show some kind of elements of yob culture. Well the contrast between Walcott and Eboue that is the content of a thread here shows that's not true. Are any of the England side worse than El Hadj Diouf's spitting and alledged wife battering or Anelka's delusions of gandeur?

Are English footballers any more oversexed than their Brazillian counterparts who hardly live the lives of Trappist Monks off the pitch?

[Red Gunner]

It depends on the up-bringing of a person, for example some are patriotic therefore value England more than their favourite club and some are vice versa; and then some value their favourite club and country the same like you do. I am anti-nationalistic therefore I value Arsenal over any country. Right now most Gooners seem anti-England because they have to defend their club when England’s failures are blamed on them. I used to like to England when they had Cashley and Sol playing for them, I don’t anymore because they are no Gunners. If Walcott will play for England and hopefully in future some more Arsenal players are in the England team too; then I and many other English Gooners like you will have much more sympathy towards England.

[Charlie! Charlie!]

It depends on the up-bringing of a person, for example some are patriotic therefore value England more than their favourite club and some are vice versa; and then some value their favourite club and country the same like you do. I am anti-nationalistic therefore I value Arsenal over any country. Right now most Gooners seem anti-England because they have to defend their club when England’s failures are blamed on them. I used to like to England when they had Cashley and Sol playing for them, I don’t anymore because they are no Gunners. If Walcott will play for England and hopefully in future some more Arsenal players are in the England team too; then I and many other English Gooners like you will have much more sympathy towards England.

Wise words mate.

[U.F.G Anfield '89]

The fact that no England players are good enough for Arsenal today makes about as much difference to me as the fact that from the predominantly English Arsenal sides in 1966 and 1990 none of them were good enough for England.

there were plenty of Arsenal players good enough to play for england in 1990, this was the team that had won the league the season before last and would win it again in the season following the 1990 world cup. Who knows how far england would have gone had The Arsenal back four (all english) been chosen, what about David Rocastle? are you seriously saying he wasn't good enough to play for england? i would contend that it was simply england being too stupid to pick Arsenal players.

[Cus Geezer]

there were plenty of Arsenal players good enough to play for england in 1990, this was the team that had won the league the season before last and would win it again in the season following the 1990 world cup. Who knows how far england would have gone had The Arsenal back four (all english) been chosen, what about David Rocastle? are you seriously saying he wasn't good enough to play for england? i would contend that it was simply england being too stupid to pick Arsenal players.

David Rocastle had peaked around 1989 with a brief renaisaance around 1991/2, it's fair to say that Gazza had overtaken him around this point, as had Platt. He was dropped the following year. The same with Michael Thomas.

Paul Merson was too young to be an England regular and was a bit heywire in the 1989/90 with his personal habits - mainly booze and gambling. Plus was played more up front as opposed to on the wing as he was in 1990/91.

Alan Smith was the golden boot winner in 1989 and 1991, but was never as prolific as Gary Lineker or as skillful as Beardsley. Probably should have gone in place of Steve Bull.

Tony Adams was touch and go for a place and personally I thought better than Mark Wright who went ahead of him.

Lee Dixon did get a regular slot for a while in 1990, but I thought Paul Parker was one of England's best players in Italia 90 so I don't think you could fault Robbo for picking him. Same with Winterburn and Stuart Pearce.

[samstrange]

Goood turn out lads!

And it resulted in a great performance from the gooners. Although there attendance was a bit overpowering i think we adapted quite well

ohh ... and whoever started the " you need for foreigners " song deserves praise

Well donee boys.
Sam

[aw]

It depends on the up-bringing of a person, for example some are patriotic therefore value England more than their favourite club and some are vice versa; and then some value their favourite club and country the same like you do. I am anti-nationalistic therefore I value Arsenal over any country. Right now most Gooners seem anti-England because they have to defend their club when England’s failures are blamed on them. I used to like to England when they had Cashley and Sol playing for them, I don’t anymore because they are no Gunners. If Walcott will play for England and hopefully in future some more Arsenal players are in the England team too; then I and many other English Gooners like you will have much more sympathy towards England.

Wise words mate.

I agree too. I've never really had nationalistic tendencies either! In some ways, the only time an Englishman can be patriotic is when they follow football, rugby, snooker or cricket. All other areas of achievement come under the British label.
I would be proud of an England team that played interesting football, regardless of the clubs that make up the England side. However , three or four Arsenal players in the team would make me more enthusiastic.

[T.S]

Tony Saunders has commented that he doesn't find international football interesting - bit of a funny thing to say about a level of football where you cannot buy success but live of what you've produced yourself. Granted it does bring out the morons forever banging on about WW2 - but uninteresting?

I find this a bit of a funny thing to say. I have no idea what I have to do with this post, but you obviously saw a need to label me as someone who 'bit the bait'. Fair enough. All the same, though, don't condescend me.