Wow! Didn't know other teams had done this bad in pre-season..AFCWozza wrote:Manchester United 1-2 Kansas City WizardsBring Back Pires wrote:So are you happy with AW's defensive preparation for the coming season?AFCWozza wrote:Its because they are all part of the "We fucking hate Arsene Wenger brigade" They thrive on any mistake that any player makes, they love to see us concede goals, they want to see our signings fail. Just so they can say.. "see, Wenger got it wrong"RVP2 wrote:How can you make a judgement on a lad playing a few preseason games? Seriously what is wrong with some people? We were 3-0 down and everyone is slating us, but we went on to win. Will some people please just wait before they come out with some embarrassing comments.
If they put even half as much effort as they do slagging our club off into supporting them we might see an improvement on the pitch.
Manchester United 2-3 C.D. Guadalajara
Chelsea 1-3 Ajax
Chelsea 1-2 Frankfurt
Chelsea 1-2 Hamburg
Man City 0-2 Sporting Lisbon
Man City 1-2 New York Red Bull
Man City 0-3 Inter Milan
Man City 1-1 Club America
Man City 1-3 Borrusia Dortmund.
Them 3 have to go down, they have to sign players, they have defensivly prepared awfully
ARSENAL V Legia Warsaw
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Bring Back Pires
- Posts: 2977
- Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 3:23 pm
I wasn't asking about any other clubs. I was asking about Arsenal. If we'd been solid defensively last season then today's scoreline may not be so scandalous, but with the Wigan 3-2 game fresh in the mind, along with other defensive catastrophes last season, it seems as though we're in for more of the same. Oh, and four defenders have left, to be replaced by only one.AFCWozza wrote:Manchester United 1-2 Kansas City WizardsBring Back Pires wrote:So are you happy with AW's defensive preparation for the coming season?AFCWozza wrote:Its because they are all part of the "We fucking hate Arsene Wenger brigade" They thrive on any mistake that any player makes, they love to see us concede goals, they want to see our signings fail. Just so they can say.. "see, Wenger got it wrong"RVP2 wrote:How can you make a judgement on a lad playing a few preseason games? Seriously what is wrong with some people? We were 3-0 down and everyone is slating us, but we went on to win. Will some people please just wait before they come out with some embarrassing comments.
If they put even half as much effort as they do slagging our club off into supporting them we might see an improvement on the pitch.
Manchester United 2-3 C.D. Guadalajara
Chelsea 1-3 Ajax
Chelsea 1-2 Frankfurt
Chelsea 1-2 Hamburg
Man City 0-2 Sporting Lisbon
Man City 1-2 New York Red Bull
Man City 0-3 Inter Milan
Man City 1-1 Club America
Man City 1-3 Borrusia Dortmund.
Them 3 have to go down, they have to sign players, they have defensivly prepared awfully
So I'll ask again: Are you happy with AW's defensive preparation for the coming season?
Take into account that Senderos was not ast the club for the second half of last season, Djourou was injured for the whole of last season. I would have given Sol another season no doubt about it, Kos has came in and Gallas has gone. You'd like to think Wenger wouldnt go into the season with only 3 senior center backs, he's stated that were in the market for a center back, and im still confident that we will sign an additonal center back. Eboue, Sagna, Clichy and Gibbs, you wont find a better group of full backs in the league at any club.selsdon wrote:Wozza u really do live CloudWenger Land don't you?
We're weaker at the back because we got rid of Gallas, Campbell and Senderos (not going to mention Silvestre). We bought in Kos.
You do the maths.
If you think he's as good as Gallas or Campbell good luck to ya.
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Bring Back Pires
- Posts: 2977
- Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 3:23 pm
Agreed, they're probably not an improvement, but we still conceded 41 goals in the league last season, so lets not build Gallas up to be something he's not.selsdon wrote:Ok then we've effectively replaced Gallas and Campbell with Kos and Djourou.
An improvement?
Time will tell no doubt but let me save you 9 mths or so, they're not.
It's not just personnel, but the balance and collective way we defend as a team - that balance was all wrong last season, and until the competitve games start this season, we won't know if that's improved or not.... early evidence suggests not, though
In fact, early evidence suggests we're still not taking defending seriously not. No organisation, no teamwork, nothing. Looks like every man for themselves at the back
But, they're only friendlies, so not too much significance should be attached to them, I suppose.
This may be because were missing our captain, and our main holding midfielder, although Wilshire and Frimpong are promising players you cant underestimate the importance of a more experienced player along side them. The team as a unit is much better with Fabregas, Song, even Diaby in the side. Its a shame that we aint had the chance to see this in pre-seasong88ner wrote:Agreed, they're probably not an improvement, but we still conceded 41 goals in the league last season, so lets not build Gallas up to be something he's not.selsdon wrote:Ok then we've effectively replaced Gallas and Campbell with Kos and Djourou.
An improvement?
Time will tell no doubt but let me save you 9 mths or so, they're not.
It's not just personnel, but the balance and collective way we defend as a team - that balance was all wrong last season, and until the competitve games start this season, we won't know if that's improved or not.... early evidence suggests not, though
In fact, early evidence suggests we're still not taking defending seriously not. No organisation, no teamwork, nothing. Looks like every man for themselves at the back
But, they're only friendlies, so not too much significance should be attached to them, I suppose.
Maradona/Wenger two managers who don't know how to defend
reason I bring the argie up is that he too is blessed with attacking options - but it aint enough.
This is top flight football and having no defence is laughable.
Look at the best teams on the planet, Barca and Spain. Awesome defence and awesome team defence.
We've run our course with Wenger and his project.
reason I bring the argie up is that he too is blessed with attacking options - but it aint enough.
This is top flight football and having no defence is laughable.
Look at the best teams on the planet, Barca and Spain. Awesome defence and awesome team defence.
We've run our course with Wenger and his project.
True, the midfield was hardly ideal - however, that was probably our stongest back four, and at the very least you expect them to look like a single unit in the way they defend. I didn't see any of that - in fact, they looked like strangers to me, and with only a week before the season starts, that has to be a major concern.AFCWozza wrote:This may be because were missing our captain, and our main holding midfielder, although Wilshire and Frimpong are promising players you cant underestimate the importance of a more experienced player along side them. The team as a unit is much better with Fabregas, Song, even Diaby in the side. Its a shame that we aint had the chance to see this in pre-season
They looked very weak aerially, too - and as that's been the main defensive issue in recent seasons, it's a tad worrying (and depressing) that it looks like that hasn't been resolved
The goalkeeping issue clearly still hasn't been resolved, either. I desperately hoped Fabianski would show more confidence today, but you could see in that first half that it's just impossible to make him number 1. Impossible.
I know it's only a friendly, but you still can't help being a little concerned by what we saw today.
Surely this means that WENGER IS NOT DOING HIS JOB?g88ner wrote:Agreed, they're probably not an improvement, but we still conceded 41 goals in the league last season, so lets not build Gallas up to be something he's not.selsdon wrote:Ok then we've effectively replaced Gallas and Campbell with Kos and Djourou.
An improvement?
Time will tell no doubt but let me save you 9 mths or so, they're not.
It's not just personnel, but the balance and collective way we defend as a team - that balance was all wrong last season, and until the competitve games start this season, we won't know if that's improved or not.... early evidence suggests not, though
In fact, early evidence suggests we're still not taking defending seriously not. No organisation, no teamwork, nothing. Looks like every man for themselves at the back
But, they're only friendlies, so not too much significance should be attached to them, I suppose.
Or at least not pushing to bring someone in who can take care of the defensive side. He's done neither.
Koscielny is a defender very much in TV's mould, ie he likes to attack the ball rather than drop back and cover his partner. He's not the commanding/dominant type that we need to complement Vermaelen. How can a manager of Wenger's experience and 'nous' not see the imbalance there?
Of corse its a massive concern. BUT i do feel you will see a massive difference with our stronger players in the middle of midfield. Fabianski is a fantastic shot stopper, but as you say, his confidence, is shot to bits. It really cant help him playing in front of his own fans being heckled every time he does something positive, let alone negative. I'd like to think that Djourou would be our starting center back, let Kos build into this league and team. Another center back signing would be ideal, and i still believe it will happen. If were sitting here, in January, struggling, then we should make rash judgements on our players, for now, were on the verge of going into a new season, and there is pure negativity, some people are so blinkered to negativity, they cant ever see anything positive ion thi team.g88ner wrote:True, the midfield was hardly ideal - however, that was probably our stongest back four, and at the very least you expect them to look like a single unit in the way they defend. I didn't see any of that - in fact, they looked like strangers to me, and with only a week before the season starts, that has to be a major concern.AFCWozza wrote:This may be because were missing our captain, and our main holding midfielder, although Wilshire and Frimpong are promising players you cant underestimate the importance of a more experienced player along side them. The team as a unit is much better with Fabregas, Song, even Diaby in the side. Its a shame that we aint had the chance to see this in pre-season
They looked very weak aerially, too - and as that's been the main defensive issue in recent seasons, it's a tad worrying (and depressing) that it looks like that hasn't been resolved
The goalkeeping issue clearly still hasn't been resolved, either. I desperately hoped Fabianski would show more confidence today, but you could see in that first half that it's just impossible to make him number 1. Impossible.
I know it's only a friendly, but you still can't help being a little concerned by what we saw today.
In Samir Nasri we have one of the most talented young footballers in the world at the moment, If Song and Diaby make strides like they did lat season they will be immense, Fabregas is Fabregas, Arshavin, Chamakh, Van Persie, heck even Walcott and Vela could make a massive impact. This i forgetting Rosicky and Denilson who may also suprise a few people this year.
Lets hope we sign another center back
Oh, I couldn't agree more.1989 wrote:Surely this means that WENGER IS NOT DOING HIS JOB?g88ner wrote:Agreed, they're probably not an improvement, but we still conceded 41 goals in the league last season, so lets not build Gallas up to be something he's not.selsdon wrote:Ok then we've effectively replaced Gallas and Campbell with Kos and Djourou.
An improvement?
Time will tell no doubt but let me save you 9 mths or so, they're not.
It's not just personnel, but the balance and collective way we defend as a team - that balance was all wrong last season, and until the competitve games start this season, we won't know if that's improved or not.... early evidence suggests not, though
In fact, early evidence suggests we're still not taking defending seriously not. No organisation, no teamwork, nothing. Looks like every man for themselves at the back
But, they're only friendlies, so not too much significance should be attached to them, I suppose.
Or at least not pushing to bring someone in who can take care of the defensive side. He's done neither.
My major gripe in the last 2 seasons especially, has been the way he's neglected the defence... or, at least, not given the art of defending the respect it derserves!
We've completely lost the ability to defend properly. We don't look balanced... we don't defend as a unit.... we don't track runners that well... we don't defend set pieices well enough... the midfield leave the defence over exposed...
There's many, many problems. Football is about attacking and defending, and I just wonder whether that balance is represented in training in the amount of time allocated to defending, and the quality of the defensive coaching.
- my guess is that there's a huge bias towards attacking, and that's a concern. In fact, for a PROFESSIONAL club, it would be a disgrace not to give defending the time and respect it deserves!
Agree with some of that.AFCWozza wrote:Of corse its a massive concern. BUT i do feel you will see a massive difference with our stronger players in the middle of midfield. Fabianski is a fantastic shot stopper, but as you say, his confidence, is shot to bits. It really cant help him playing in front of his own fans being heckled every time he does something positive, let alone negative. I'd like to think that Djourou would be our starting center back, let Kos build into this league and team. Another center back signing would be ideal, and i still believe it will happen. If were sitting here, in January, struggling, then we should make rash judgements on our players, for now, were on the verge of going into a new season, and there is pure negativity, some people are so blinkered to negativity, they cant ever see anything positive ion thi team.
There's definately FAR too much negativity around, but of course results like today don't help. The only way to get people on side is for them to do their talking on the pitch and actually achieve something! - until they do that, the negativity is kind of justified. For example, we can talk and talk and talk, but the FACTS are that we conceded a ridiculous 41 goals in the league last season, and 37 the season before. Now, that's atrocious and deserves to be criticised. The only way to stop the criticism is to learn how to defend!
As for Fabianksi - yes, I'm sure it's not nice having the Leiga fans on your back, but I've seen him make so many mistakes, on such a regular basis, that you end up coming to the conclusion that he's a liability. He needs to go out on loan (or leave altogether!) and play games, before he loses all his confidence for good!
