exactly it...however, i wish he would not be so stubborng88ner wrote:Pointless thread - He's here for 4 more years. We know that.
SPEND DAMN YOU!!!WENGER OUT NEXT SUMMER IF WE DON'T WIN ANYTHING?
Everyone knows my views on Wenger, but to sack him simply on the grounds of not winning something would be fickle, particularly in the current status of football with big spending arabs and russians etc.
It's not the not winning anything that is the reason he should be sacked (and by the way I would gladly see him sacked today never mind next summer)
It is the continued failure to address the obvious short comings of the squad, which in fact wouldn't require spending huge amounts of money. Shay givens' move to Citeh last season being an obvious example.
Add to that increasing tactical in-eptitude that has come into his management, eg playing players out of position when there are better replacements sitting in the dugout or watching from the stands.
And the missed opportunities when we had actually got ourselves into a position where we might win something, only to see Wenger panic or make ridiculous team selections, eg Arshavin left on the bench for the semi final when he was in a rich vein of form.(I will never forgive the bastard for that)
These are the reasons he should be sacked and the sooner the better.
It's not the not winning anything that is the reason he should be sacked (and by the way I would gladly see him sacked today never mind next summer)
It is the continued failure to address the obvious short comings of the squad, which in fact wouldn't require spending huge amounts of money. Shay givens' move to Citeh last season being an obvious example.
Add to that increasing tactical in-eptitude that has come into his management, eg playing players out of position when there are better replacements sitting in the dugout or watching from the stands.
And the missed opportunities when we had actually got ourselves into a position where we might win something, only to see Wenger panic or make ridiculous team selections, eg Arshavin left on the bench for the semi final when he was in a rich vein of form.(I will never forgive the bastard for that)
These are the reasons he should be sacked and the sooner the better.
Most sensible folk have voted yes to this since 2006/07.
This was the year he was going to put right all the wrongs of the previous year and address all of the key weaknesses in the transfer window. In fact, all of this was going to be put to bed long before the World Cup apparently.
The guy's youth project ran its course long ago. His level of freedom is creating a legacy that will prove harder and harder for the next manager to break and Gazidis and co. are digging themselves further and further into the trench.
This was the year he was going to put right all the wrongs of the previous year and address all of the key weaknesses in the transfer window. In fact, all of this was going to be put to bed long before the World Cup apparently.
The guy's youth project ran its course long ago. His level of freedom is creating a legacy that will prove harder and harder for the next manager to break and Gazidis and co. are digging themselves further and further into the trench.
Can't put it better than Goonersid did. I don't expect to win trophies every season but I expect to see progress and I certainly expect to see the glaringly weak areas strengthened.
On the tactics front, Wenger is pretty inept and that is not going to change now. We just have to hope that plan A works in every single game.
On the tactics front, Wenger is pretty inept and that is not going to change now. We just have to hope that plan A works in every single game.
But if you remember back when Fat Sam and Bolton exposed that with their sit deep but get stuck in all day tactics that was 2001-2002. We won the Premiership that year, and again in 2003-2004 of course, and should have done in 2002-2003, and only Chelsea improving phenomenally obscures that we were't that poor in 2004-2005.TeeCee wrote:Can't put it better than Goonersid did. I don't expect to win trophies every season but I expect to see progress and I certainly expect to see the glaringly weak areas strengthened.
On the tactics front, Wenger is pretty inept and that is not going to change now. We just have to hope that plan A works in every single game.
So we have never had that plan B under Arsene Wenger. But we had the players to make Plan A work almost every match against nearly every single opponent and again and - this is the huge difference - we had several players from the bench who made it work if not as well then well enough that we could still win vital matches without our top players, whatever their role - or roles.
Our first team in recent years isn't good enough to make Plan A work as well nearly as often against as many sides and I'm not sure we have more than one player on our bench now who can come in and make it work from his position, and again this shows how the under-investment in the team has undermined its capacity to compete for and win silverware.
So again we're back to is this solely the manager reusing to make use of available resouces or to allocate those resources more intelligently, why did the Board just retain him as manager another four years?
-
merson_is_god
- Posts: 2379
- Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:43 am
- Location: At the computer
-
mikeyb772001
- Posts: 4569
- Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 7:03 pm
- Location: Block 6! Drunk and standing next to a mad man with no clothes on!
Apparently the Board doesn't wish for this, though, otherwise he would be sackedinstead of given a new - and likely improved - deal to stay for more years, no ?Big_G wrote:exactly it...however, i wish he would not be so stubborng88ner wrote:Pointless thread - He's here for 4 more years. We know that.
-
QuartzGooner
- Posts: 14474
- Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:49 pm
- Location: London
OK, accuse me of being arrogant now, but I reckon Wenger has been a great manager, but has developed a blind spot.
He is putting out substandard defences.
It is not just a matter of players, it is about basic organisation.
If he brings in Keown as defence coach, then Wenger is very capable of continuing to manage us.
If not, we will struggle to win things because too often we do not deal with set pieces or hold onto leads.
He is putting out substandard defences.
It is not just a matter of players, it is about basic organisation.
If he brings in Keown as defence coach, then Wenger is very capable of continuing to manage us.
If not, we will struggle to win things because too often we do not deal with set pieces or hold onto leads.
Thing is he's always had that blind spot. He never had to develop a new defence really until 2001 and 2002 or a new first choice keeper until 2004 and clearly by then one could see he was an attack minded manager first and foremost.
The difference is he had the resources to marshal better quality to play at Arsenal and also to retain those better players in defence as well as in mid-field and in attack.
A defensive coach would help no doubt, but how much given that this isn't a case of say the 1998 back four and keeper or the 2004 back four and keeper just going off the rails and just needing extra practice and coaching to get back to where they were. This is frankly a rather inferior by comparison back four with a simply woeful goalkeeper no matter who is behind them and not nearly as much protection in front of them from our "defensive" mid-fielder (since we only have one again now) as either of those back fours had.
The truth is more investment in more and better players in all these roles would do more than any defensive coach could ever do. But we're more likely to see that defensive coach because well, he costs less, and some supporters will shut up then.
The difference is he had the resources to marshal better quality to play at Arsenal and also to retain those better players in defence as well as in mid-field and in attack.
A defensive coach would help no doubt, but how much given that this isn't a case of say the 1998 back four and keeper or the 2004 back four and keeper just going off the rails and just needing extra practice and coaching to get back to where they were. This is frankly a rather inferior by comparison back four with a simply woeful goalkeeper no matter who is behind them and not nearly as much protection in front of them from our "defensive" mid-fielder (since we only have one again now) as either of those back fours had.
The truth is more investment in more and better players in all these roles would do more than any defensive coach could ever do. But we're more likely to see that defensive coach because well, he costs less, and some supporters will shut up then.
-
QuartzGooner
- Posts: 14474
- Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:49 pm
- Location: London
So you believe these players can be coached to be as good as the 1998 and 2004 back fours then?
Or are you just aiming to be as good as the 2006 back four which for all it did in Europe failed domestically or we wouldn't have had to score four at home against wigan the last day to nick fourth.
So I guess maybe you're saying a coach could give us a fourth-place quality defence then. But like I say its cheaper than buying the 2-4 players we need so its little surprise I guess that that would be opur best - and only - option.
Or are you just aiming to be as good as the 2006 back four which for all it did in Europe failed domestically or we wouldn't have had to score four at home against wigan the last day to nick fourth.
So I guess maybe you're saying a coach could give us a fourth-place quality defence then. But like I say its cheaper than buying the 2-4 players we need so its little surprise I guess that that would be opur best - and only - option.
Is US Martin still changing history to justify that Wenger is still a genius and it's all the evil board's fault?
Wenger's great teams 1-dimensional? Not on your life. Kill you with possession football, with pace on the counter, with players in the gap between defence and midfield, with some goals from set pieces, by bullying you off the park physically, heaven forbid with tight defence when necessary.
And your claim that Wenger has never built a decent defence even in the days when apparently we spent big money (the Invincible back line was put together at cost of barely £5m) is crap as well.
Face facts, low investment or not, money available or not, Wenger has lost the ability to get a team defending well which we once had. David Moyes, a decent but not exactly genius manager, could get us that tightness back in weeks. Let's hope we can do the same in the real world.
Wenger's great teams 1-dimensional? Not on your life. Kill you with possession football, with pace on the counter, with players in the gap between defence and midfield, with some goals from set pieces, by bullying you off the park physically, heaven forbid with tight defence when necessary.
And your claim that Wenger has never built a decent defence even in the days when apparently we spent big money (the Invincible back line was put together at cost of barely £5m) is crap as well.
Face facts, low investment or not, money available or not, Wenger has lost the ability to get a team defending well which we once had. David Moyes, a decent but not exactly genius manager, could get us that tightness back in weeks. Let's hope we can do the same in the real world.
Look blind faith in our Board by supporters like you as harmful to Arsenal as anything. You would rather let them put Arsenal in administartion frankly than admit your judgment was wrong and that tyour faith in the Board was mis-placed. I truly believe that. This is not about good and evil - another sign that faith is your guiding priciple when it comes to our Bioard but simply whether our Board has the best interests of Arsenel Football Club as their first priority, whaever sort of people they are.djhdjh wrote:Is US Martin still changing history to justify that Wenger is still a genius and it's all the evil board's fault?
Wenger's great teams 1-dimensional? Not on your life. Kill you with possession football, with pace on the counter, with players in the gap between defence and midfield, with some goals from set pieces, by bullying you off the park physically, heaven forbid with tight defence when necessary.
And your claim that Wenger has never built a decent defence even in the days when apparently we spent big money (the Invincible back line was put together at cost of barely £5m) is crap as well.
Face facts, low investment or not, money available or not, Wenger has lost the ability to get a team defending well which we once had. David Moyes, a decent but not exactly genius manager, could get us that tightness back in weeks. Let's hope we can do the same in the real world.
Eiother you are too lazy to want to do anything about it, or too blindly loyal to realize that you deserve the same respect and loyalty. Masochism isn't loyalty.
