Get your coat arsene you useless twat!

As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
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goonersid
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Post by goonersid »

Percy Dalton wrote:I agree that this thread has got unnecessarily abusive but I would suggest this ill feeling is a very clear sign of the dissatisfaction with Wenger.

Wenger came to the club with two clear targets to acheive, To modernise the football club as a whole and to bring success to the team and the fans.

He quite obviously acheived both of these goals in his early days and he will always be remembered and congratulated on this.

However, there is no more modernisation of the club to be done and has not been for some years. Since Wenger changed the clubs methods and processes enough time has elapsed that most other 'major'clubs have looked at the model and have followed suit. That is how much time has passed.

That now only leaves Wenger one goal and that is to bring silverware to the club. For the last five years he has failed to do this and compounded this failure with the use of frankly laughable, shocking, contradicting and derisory excuses.

Unfortunately some of the excuses used to defend Wenger by the Arsene Knows movement are equally as laughable. I see that Arsene is being defended with claims that a CL quarter final is something to be celebrated. It is often said that nobody remembers the beaten finalist in any competition but some of us want to trumpet the acheivements of losing a quarter final? I totally understand that we cannot win every pot, every season but out of a possible twenty trophies available to the first team over the last five years we have won nothing.

So to summarise, our manager, with one specific goal, has failed to deliver any credible silverware over the past five seasons. In what other line of work would such perfomance be tolerated yet alone celebrated?

Five years ago Arsene was a god to us all but with hindsight it is very easy to spot the deteoriation in his leadership. The scandal of losing Pires over a two year contract and subsequently offering the exact same to Silvestre. The failure to replace genuinely outstanding players with those of the same quality instead relying on the development of skilled youngsters whose progress cannot be guaranteed. The change of policy that saw technically fantastic players with the required physical attributes for the English game with ones of the same skill but who can be easliy bullied and regarded as a soft touch.

Put simply, split Wenger's reign into to eras. Pre 2005 versus post 2005. Can anyone seriously say the two are comparable? There is a thread on here asking what part of Arsenal's history would you like to be transformed to? In the future, how many will answer the golden years of 2005 to 2010?

I see that some of us are labelled spoilt, incorrectly. Questioning how Invincibles are turned into also rans and yet still heralded as great is a justified concern. Nobody is spitting the dummy over one lean year or one shock FA Cup defeat but we are complaining about what is now a sustained period of failure which could have ben avoided if a more progressive approach was taken by Wenger.

The man himself told us to judge him in May and he was. Wenger being the god he is to some was even given the benefit of doubt in May that yet another obvious failure would be rectified in the summer. It has not.

How many chances do you give one person, on a tidy £6 million a year, to deliver the aims for which he is ultimately employed?
Fuck off Percy! Arsene is the greatest manager in our history and for that reason should be allowed to continue with his project, unquestioned. We must put our trust in him because there is no other manager in the world who could do what he has done on such a small budget, in such difficult economic times.
Just look at the money Benitez spent at liverpool and the money squandered by the likes of s***s over the last ten years.
Arsenal have competed and remained solvent thanks to Mr Wenger. And what would clubs like bolton, birmingham, leeds utd etc not give to be able to compete and have a realistic chance of winning the treble at the outset of every season
We have a wonderful committed, talented squad full of desire and ability
I and I am fully confident that they and Mr Wenger will bring the glory days back to Arsenal.
So be careful what you wish for Percy as it might just come true :wink:
There just thought I would say that on behalf of our AKBs. :barscarf:

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Percy Dalton
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Post by Percy Dalton »

goonersid wrote:
Percy Dalton wrote:I agree that this thread has got unnecessarily abusive but I would suggest this ill feeling is a very clear sign of the dissatisfaction with Wenger.

Wenger came to the club with two clear targets to acheive, To modernise the football club as a whole and to bring success to the team and the fans.

He quite obviously acheived both of these goals in his early days and he will always be remembered and congratulated on this.

However, there is no more modernisation of the club to be done and has not been for some years. Since Wenger changed the clubs methods and processes enough time has elapsed that most other 'major'clubs have looked at the model and have followed suit. That is how much time has passed.

That now only leaves Wenger one goal and that is to bring silverware to the club. For the last five years he has failed to do this and compounded this failure with the use of frankly laughable, shocking, contradicting and derisory excuses.

Unfortunately some of the excuses used to defend Wenger by the Arsene Knows movement are equally as laughable. I see that Arsene is being defended with claims that a CL quarter final is something to be celebrated. It is often said that nobody remembers the beaten finalist in any competition but some of us want to trumpet the acheivements of losing a quarter final? I totally understand that we cannot win every pot, every season but out of a possible twenty trophies available to the first team over the last five years we have won nothing.

So to summarise, our manager, with one specific goal, has failed to deliver any credible silverware over the past five seasons. In what other line of work would such perfomance be tolerated yet alone celebrated?

Five years ago Arsene was a god to us all but with hindsight it is very easy to spot the deteoriation in his leadership. The scandal of losing Pires over a two year contract and subsequently offering the exact same to Silvestre. The failure to replace genuinely outstanding players with those of the same quality instead relying on the development of skilled youngsters whose progress cannot be guaranteed. The change of policy that saw technically fantastic players with the required physical attributes for the English game with ones of the same skill but who can be easliy bullied and regarded as a soft touch.

Put simply, split Wenger's reign into to eras. Pre 2005 versus post 2005. Can anyone seriously say the two are comparable? There is a thread on here asking what part of Arsenal's history would you like to be transformed to? In the future, how many will answer the golden years of 2005 to 2010?

I see that some of us are labelled spoilt, incorrectly. Questioning how Invincibles are turned into also rans and yet still heralded as great is a justified concern. Nobody is spitting the dummy over one lean year or one shock FA Cup defeat but we are complaining about what is now a sustained period of failure which could have ben avoided if a more progressive approach was taken by Wenger.

The man himself told us to judge him in May and he was. Wenger being the god he is to some was even given the benefit of doubt in May that yet another obvious failure would be rectified in the summer. It has not.

How many chances do you give one person, on a tidy £6 million a year, to deliver the aims for which he is ultimately employed?
Fuck off Percy! Arsene is the greatest manager in our history and for that reason should be allowed to continue with his project, unquestioned. We must put our trust in him because there is no other manager in the world who could do what he has done on such a small budget, in such difficult economic times.
Just look at the money Benitez spent at liverpool and the money squandered by the likes of s***s over the last ten years.
Arsenal have competed and remained solvent thanks to Mr Wenger. And what would clubs like bolton, birmingham, leeds utd etc not give to be able to compete and have a realistic chance of winning the treble at the outset of every season
We have a wonderful committed, talented squad full of desire and ability
I and I am fully confident that they and Mr Wenger will bring the glory days back to Arsenal.
So be careful what you wish for Percy as it might just come true :wink:
There just thought I would say that on behalf of our AKBs. :barscarf:
Nurse, come quickly!

Bring the restraining kit and the sedatives too!

:lol:

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DB10GOONER
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Post by DB10GOONER »

Percy Dalton wrote:
DB10GOONER wrote:
WalesGooner71 wrote:I have to agree that Percy's post is spot on!! I'm glad that there are at least a few of us that can put things into perspective and not resort to an incoherent rant!!
What are you fucking saying you fucking cuntfucked bastard fucking ***** cuntbag fuckingcuntfuckshit!!!! :lol: :wink:

Please ignore him, he is from Tallaght!

:lol:
:shock:

ooh! The insults are flying now!! :lol:

And I am NOT from Tallaght. I have never tried to eat my own young. Whilst mugging a grannie. And signing on the dole. :-P

I wonder if Johnny Arsehole with the hurt feelings from Tallaght will be on here today now? :lol: :wink:

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highburyJD
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Post by highburyJD »

my non-abusive response
Percy Dalton wrote:I agree that this thread has got unnecessarily abusive but I would suggest this ill feeling is a very clear sign of the dissatisfaction with Wenger.

Wenger came to the club with two clear targets to acheive, To modernise the football club as a whole and to bring success to the team and the fans.

He quite obviously acheived both of these goals in his early days and he will always be remembered and congratulated on this.
we can all agree on that
Percy Dalton wrote:However, there is no more modernisation of the club to be done and has not been for some years. Since Wenger changed the clubs methods and processes enough time has elapsed that most other 'major'clubs have looked at the model and have followed suit. That is how much time has passed.
in terms of lifestyle and worldwide (esp youth) scouting yes. I still think Wenger is attempting to further develop and innovate in terms of playing style/formation.
Percy Dalton wrote:That now only leaves Wenger one goal and that is to bring silverware to the club. For the last five years he has failed to do this and compounded this failure with the use of frankly laughable, shocking, contradicting and derisory excuses.
All managers deflect criticism with nonsense. Wenger is a bad loser which IMO is not a big problem. In each of the last 5 years I would say being in the CL was a more important target than winning a domestic cup. Another key target is filling the stadium.
Percy Dalton wrote:Unfortunately some of the excuses used to defend Wenger by the Arsene Knows movement are equally as laughable. I see that Arsene is being defended with claims that a CL quarter final is something to be celebrated. It is often said that nobody remembers the beaten finalist in any competition but some of us want to trumpet the acheivements of losing a quarter final? I totally understand that we cannot win every pot, every season but out of a possible twenty trophies available to the first team over the last five years we have won nothing.

So to summarise, our manager, with one specific goal, has failed to deliver any credible silverware over the past five seasons. In what other line of work would such perfomance be tolerated yet alone celebrated?
If I opened a burger joint and it was not as successful as McD's and BurgerKing but bigger than all the others on a far smaller budget I would be lauded as a genius.
Percy Dalton wrote:Five years ago Arsene was a god to us all but with hindsight it is very easy to spot the deteoriation in his leadership. The scandal of losing Pires over a two year contract and subsequently offering the exact same to Silvestre. The failure to replace genuinely outstanding players with those of the same quality instead relying on the development of skilled youngsters whose progress cannot be guaranteed. The change of policy that saw technically fantastic players with the required physical attributes for the English game with ones of the same skill but who can be easliy bullied and regarded as a soft touch.
Silvestre was a bad signing as most of us suspected at the time. That said we all also agreed our team lacked experience. I was desperate for us to keep SuperBobby but it's worth remembering his knee went again after we released him. I think he would have played less than 50% of the time for the next 2 years.
Percy Dalton wrote:Put simply, split Wenger's reign into to eras. Pre 2005 versus post 2005. Can anyone seriously say the two are comparable? There is a thread on here asking what part of Arsenal's history would you like to be transformed to? In the future, how many will answer the golden years of 2005 to 2010?
I see the narrow brave defeat in the CL final of 2006 as a more impressive achievement than our spawny 2005 FA cup win. If we can build success with this generation of youth and our rivals fall foul of financial problems the era will be seen as key. Seems unlikely at the moment but is possible.
Percy Dalton wrote:I see that some of us are labelled spoilt, incorrectly. Questioning how Invincibles are turned into also rans and yet still heralded as great is a justified concern. Nobody is spitting the dummy over one lean year or one shock FA Cup defeat but we are complaining about what is now a sustained period of failure which could have ben avoided if a more progressive approach was taken by Wenger.

The man himself told us to judge him in May and he was. Wenger being the god he is to some was even given the benefit of doubt in May that yet another obvious failure would be rectified in the summer. It has not.
I wanted a new keeper. We don't have one. I think that was a mistake. I pray I'm proven wrong. It is a question that will be answered in May.
Percy Dalton wrote:How many chances do you give one person, on a tidy £6 million a year, to deliver the aims for which he is ultimately employed?
The board gave him the contract because he HAS delivered the aims they set out. A full stadium, the debt being paid down quickly through - entertaining football and CL qualification every year.

Wenger is not a big money manager. His big signings have not generally been his best. Maybe our next manager will be. Hiring a chequebook manager, which so many posters on here seem to crave, becomes a much more viable option every season that Wenger delivers so much on the cheap.

Now all fuk off and support Chelski :wink:

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QuartzGooner
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Post by QuartzGooner »

Have already posted my criticisms of Wenger, but any thoughts on the second half of his reign (which I believe began once we left Highbury) can surely only be balanced out by:


New stadium/Highbury Redevelopment and associated financial impact on our transfer spending.

Increased financial power of Chelsea, Man City on transfer market.

Loss of David Dein, with no replacement for 18 months.

World economic recession from 2008, causing decreased transfer activity.

April 2010, increase of highest income tax band from 40 to 50 percent, possibly making it harder to attract some players to the English leagues.

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Bendtners Drinking Buddy
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Post by Bendtners Drinking Buddy »

Good post Percy 8) I dont agree with all of it, but i do see your points.

The world and his wife can see we need a GK (im of the opinion that is ALL we now need to challenge) but a top drawer GK, Schwarzer would have been ok as it was a change - but would a journeyman goalkeeper who has never interested a top level club been the answer? Im not so sure. Almunia is not a terrible goalkeeper, he is a steady goalkeeper who has great games and makes mistakes like any other goalkeeper - but in mine, like many people's opinion - he is not really at the level we need to win a title. BUT, we have to get behind him and the team now, who knows, maybe we will see some of the Barca (H) and United CL (A) performances more often.

What is annoying on here is the lack of balance by some, before the season we were going to be "lucky to get 3 points from our opening games", yet we now have seven, the team has played very well in pretty much 70% of the game time, yet the praise is still far outwieghed by the moaning - and when i say moaning i dont mean posts like percys - i mean the stupid, boring, crap posts like Wenger has never done anything good for Arsenal and all the other shit ive seen on here - some of it is actually quite embarrasing, and even some of the intelligent "realists" are being drowned out by idiots - as ive read on here somewhere, there is a certain "bandwagon" culture that many subscribe too and its boring, repititive, unfounded and a lot of it is utter shit.

Most "rosetinters" will tell you we need a new Goalkeeper, most will say Wenger has made mistakes - but they will also point to a promising start to the season inclusive of two tough away fixtures as a sign we are moving the right direction, as well as the fact Wenger has bought in 3 players - 2 of which have looked promising in the games they have played, and the other an international player coming with a good reputation. As ive said before, i firmly believe we will have a good season, and all this talk of dropping out the top 4 is bollocks - we will finish their comfortably - whether we can have a great season without a new GK of course remains to be seen.
Last edited by Bendtners Drinking Buddy on Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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OneBardGooner
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Post by OneBardGooner »

mrgnu1958 wrote:DONT panic matt we will sign 3 world class players in the next 64 minutes.
You heard it here 1st matt :barscarf: :barscarf:
ticky tocky went the wocky
and we was left wiv a c u n t in goalie woalie
i'd like to larf but I'm just to angry and sad
never has ARSENAL'S GOALIES BE SO BAD!

:wailer: :banghead: :wailer: :banghead: :wailer: :banghead: :wailer: :banghead: :wailer: :banghead: :wailer: :banghead: :wailer: :banghead: :wailer: :banghead: :wailer: :banghead:

WalesGooner71
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Post by WalesGooner71 »

"Wenger is not a big money manager. His big signings have not generally been his best. Maybe our next manager will be. Hiring a chequebook manager, which so many posters on here seem to crave, becomes a much more viable option every season that Wenger delivers so much on the cheap.

Now all fuk off and support Chelski "

I don't think anyone has asked for a "chequebook manager" but surely when the club has a need for a player in a certain position it is prudent to spend whatever is needed to fill it? I am all for developing youth and I wouldn't want us to go down the route of others who have spent hundreds of millions assembling a team but I do expect us to buy players when required no matter what the cost.

At some point in time Wenger will either step down or be sacked - the way some people go on you could believe that will be the end of Arsenal FC. Arsene has had great success during his early years and has played a large part in our new stadium as well as turning us into a team that plays attractive football that people want to watch. My problem is that for the last 5 or so years we have flattered to deceive and although his early achievements have kept him in the job every year that passes without winning something erodes his legacy??

As for supporting Chelski - I think some of you should give up football supporting and support a building society or a bank - they like to look after money and produce massive profits - that seems right up your street??? Im sure some of them even have a nice attractive logo too............

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Robsy
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Post by Robsy »

Bendtners Drinking Buddy wrote:Good post Percy 8) I dont agree with all of it, but i do see your points.

The world and his wife can see we need a GK (im of the opinion that is ALL we now need to challenge) but a top drawer GK, Schwarzer would have been ok as it was a change - but would a journeyman goalkeeper who has never interested a top level club been the answer? Im not so sure. Almunia is not a terrible goalkeeper, he is a steady goalkeeper who has great games and makes mistakes like any other goalkeeper - but in mine, like many people's opinion - he is not really at the level we need to win a title. BUT, we have to get behind him and the team now, who knows, maybe we will see some of the Barca (H) and United CL (A) performances more often.

What is annoying on here is the lack of balance by some, before the season we were going to be "lucky to get 3 points from our opening games", yet we now have seven, the team has played very well in pretty much 70% of the game time, yet the praise is still far outwieghed by the moaning - and when i say moaning i dont mean posts like percys - i mean the stupid, boring, crap posts like Wenger has never done anything good for Arsenal and all the other shit ive seen on here - some of it is actually quite embarrasing, and even some of the intelligent "realists" are being drowned out by idiots - as ive read on here somewhere, there is a certain "bandwagon" culture that many subscribe too and its boring, repititive, unfounded and a lot of it is utter shit.

Most "rosetinters" will tell you we need a new Goalkeeper, most will say Wenger has made mistakes - but they will also point to a promising start to the season inclusive of two tough away fixtures as a sign we are moving the right direction, as well as the fact Wenger has bought in 3 players - 2 of which have looked promising in the games they have played, and the other an international player coming with a good reputation. As ive said before, i firmly believe we will have a good season, and all this talk of dropping out the top 4 is bollocks - we will finish their comfortably - whether we can have a great season without a new GK of course remains to be seen.
Good post. Spot on.

:barscarf:

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selsdon
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Post by selsdon »

i mean the stupid, boring, crap posts like Wenger has never done anything good for Arsenal

BDB makes things up as he goes along, where has anyone ever said anything close to resembling that quote?

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Bendtners Drinking Buddy
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Post by Bendtners Drinking Buddy »

selsdon wrote:i mean the stupid, boring, crap posts like Wenger has never done anything good for Arsenal

BDB makes things up as he goes along, where has anyone ever said anything close to resembling that quote?
There was a whole thread debating that point last week!

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selsdon
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Post by selsdon »

Show me any post where someone said Wenger has never done any good for the club.

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Bendtners Drinking Buddy
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Post by Bendtners Drinking Buddy »

http://www.onlinegooner.com/phpbb2/view ... hp?t=25055

Read that thread.

As i said, some posters have little or not balance and thats the annoying thing - a very small number of posters, and it is a small number portray themselves as actually wanting Arsenal to fail, just so they can say "i told you so" at the end of the season - but sadly those posts are too much in abundance on here and its making this a very boring place...as Percy said in his post, there may be reasons for it, but some of it is way OTT.

Anyway - now thats by the by i stand by my original post above.

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flash gunner
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Post by flash gunner »

Good posts from Percy and BDB, both are a balanced view on how most of us are feeling

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highburyJD
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Post by highburyJD »

I support RBS

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