Liverpool declared Toxic

[USMartin]

USMartin, I have broken a personal promise to myself. I actually read all your words in this thread

Yet again, you have hijacked a thread and used it as a platform for your anti-board crusade.

Additionally you have called Quartz a liar, and have been generally rude to anyone who has challenged your opinions and allegations.

You have recently called me a liar, too. As well as an ass and a hypocrit etc.

Whilst I personally can laugh at such childish slander, I think it's fair to say that several people on here have taken exception to your insults.

I've taken up your invitation to ask about you on the Steve Gleiber forum. I clicked on the search button, and typed in "USMartin.

It seems you weren't the most popular guy over there . I quote......

" I have decided over a year ago that because of the disruptive nature of some postings (or posters) and in particular USMartin, these people will be banned for good. There are other arsenal forums they can join but not the Steve Gleiber Arsenal forum. I will not allow "

It would appear that you were rather fond of being rude in PMs, too.

I'm not suggesting that you should be banned from here. But I think you ought to rein in the rudeness. And maybe apologise to the recipients of your insults.

Oh, and desist from the anti-board conjecture. It's boring.

So you want oldgit to apologize for what exactly? posting what he found out about you in another forum. Is the quote above wrong has he made it up? ok it might be a misunderstanding but untill you pointed it out how was he to know. Dont you think you have gone OTT about it.

Yes there are 2 sides to each story but bloody hell asking somebody to be banned because of that there wouldnt be anybody left on this forum if we continued in that vain

He should have shown the maturity - especially being an olgit - - not to post that until he knew the details. If the details were in line with what he was saying I would have no issue with him posting it as he did, just as had simply - as Quartz did ask me - why I was banned I would have gladly answered him.

He had every right to post that but he also had the obligation to make sure he knew what the context of the incident was before he posted it. Since he did not he should have made every effort to get the information ahead of time.

The reality is as this reflects on a person's individual character it is not far removed from posting say a police blotter piece indicating someone had been arrested for a crime but providing no further details including whether or not in fact the person actually committed that or any other crime. Which is highly irresponsible behavior, and while not on that scale this was highly irresponsible as well

[USMartin]

Yes and it was posted three years after my banning and I say I was told by a long-time regular at the forum at the time of the incident that while she felt it was not her place to act on the issue (and I have a very nice e-mail from Mrs Glieber after that confirming as much - and not, for the record referring to her deciding anything in regards to me)that she stated that it would never have happened if Steve had been alive

See - that sort of talk-first attitude is why I want you banned

You talk about childish slanders even as you engage in adult slander and ignorance is no excuse - you could have asked me ahead of time but I guess that's the kind of olgit you really are deep down. You may not have known all the details for sure but why let that get in the way of trying to undermine someone.

You really are an asshole

[QuartzGooner]

USMartin

Olgit is far from an asshole
He is a decent bloke with a lot of good qualities.

We now have two sides of your story about your banning from another Forum, though we do not know what was offensive about what you posted.

You are obviously dedicated to Forums and lengthy debate in a way few, if any, posters on here are.

Honestly I do not want you banned from here. You do have a sense of humour, and an interesting, if lengthy and unwelcomingly fecund, take on the board.

But carry on as you are, insulting people, countering arguments with an intense, and splitting hairs analysis, and accusing people of intentionally altering or witholding facts, and you will be very much marginalised.
Possibly outright ignored,
or more probably outright mocked.

[USMartin]

USMartin

I want to hear your side of the story.
Where were you banned from, and why (in your opinion, and in the opinion of those who banned you) were you banned?

It's quite simple really.

I was nanned because some forum members and moderators who were deeply offended by my views (they had tried to encourage me to post in a separate sub-forum solely opened for discussing my views, even though anyone familiar with that fioorum knows that simply would have isolated my posts in a way that was tantamount to censorship in my opinion).

But the issue comes down to this - mt ban had nothing to do with violating any forum rules, and that while the moderator who told me this supported my banning and stated that the rules would be changed because of my circumstnaces they have not been in over four years.

The quote that Olgit posted actually is from two or three years after my banning occurred. because even then there was still that much conmdemnation of the moderators doing what they did and how they did it. I cannot confirm this but I was told by a friend who spoke to Judith Gleieber at the time of the actual incident that while she was not prepared to to get involved that she said something to the effect that it would not have happened that way had Steve been alive. I cannot confrim she said that but I was told she did. That quote was Mrs Glieber acting out of loyalty to her moderators whom she felt deep gratitude for (and rightly so) keeping Steve's site alive.

The important point here is that one of the moderators again confirmed even as this was happening that it was not because I had broken forum rules or behaved improperly. Indeed this is why the action was highly unpopular at the time and as I say for two and three years afterwards remained at times at hotly debated issue.

I have no issue with Olgit pointing out I was banned - in fact I believe I had said as much myself previously. My issue if wwith him taking what he learned and posting it without context and using to impugn my character when in fact as i said my character was not in fact the issue there. I still converse regularly with many members form there even some whom I know dislike my views very much. Though honestly I need to catch up with some of them soon in fact. Guess this is at least as good an excuse as any.

This quote......

... "I have decided over a year ago that because of the disruptive nature of some postings (or posters) and in particular USMartin, these people will be banned for good. There are other arsenal forums they can join but not the Steve Gleiber Arsenal forum. I will not allow ..."

was from JUDITH GLEIBER

Funny - this was from Mrs. Gleiber as well from the time of my banning.

Dear Martin,

Thank you for your kind letter regarding my adored Son Steve! We have always been very proud of him, mainly for his conduct
and sense of fair play towards everybody and He demonstrated this althrough his very short life!

I only went on his site when He passed away and was very moved by the love that came from hundreds of people who never met
Him, but got the very core of his believes and ideology by just being on his forum!

For me it was most important to keep the Steve Gleiber Arsenal Home Pages going and we choose Roger, his very good friend to
do this. Roger is doing a very admarable job, he has made very necessary changes and updates several times in the past 3 and a half
years!
It is a lot of work and needs a great deal of dedication, which he does without any monetary gain, only because of the love and
friendship he had towards Steve, all the moderators are giving up their time without any gain to themselves!

I do not interfere with the running of the forum, number one because I don't have any knowledge of the web nor Arsenal, number
two because I can see that any changes they make are only in the interest of the long life of the site and to make it easier and more
enjoyable for all the forumites, plus I have the highest regard and thanks for every one of them!

Tragically my Son is not here to run it, but I am 100% sure He would not run it any differently and the people who are running it
are doing their very best and are doing The Steve Gleiber Arsenal Home pages proud!

Kind Regards,
Judith Gleiber

That is the message I received at the time in replay to my contacting the Gleibers about the situation. I could provide the e-mail link to a moderator if you so desire. But what I will share with you is this - she clealry did not take any action against me at the time.

You will read what Mrs Gleiber said I hope.

[USMartin]

I misspelled Mrs Gleiber's name earlier

[flash gunner]

can we stop the bullshit on here lads.....????? USmartin you have to accept people dont agree or dont want to go along with your view on the board of Arsenal but also it seems everyone else is bumming eachother up to have digs at USMartin ie quartz is winning the boxing match, quality posts or animations that depict Martin but not Quartz or oldgit etc etc etc....

Now i have nothing against USMartin, Quartz, olgit or anyone else on here but its becoming quite tedious and im suprised you all havent got better things to do

[Henry Norris 1913]

us martin is still posting here?

[mrgnu1958]

the shits gonna hit the fan soon i think.

[flash gunner]

the shits gonna hit the fan soon i think.

If that the case maybe you shouldnt keep stirring it then ****

[olgitgooner]

USMartin

I want to hear your side of the story.
Where were you banned from, and why (in your opinion, and in the opinion of those who banned you) were you banned?

It's quite simple really.

I was nanned because some forum members and moderators who were deeply offended by my views (they had tried to encourage me to post in a separate sub-forum solely opened for discussing my views, even though anyone familiar with that fioorum knows that simply would have isolated my posts in a way that was tantamount to censorship in my opinion).

But the issue comes down to this - mt ban had nothing to do with violating any forum rules, and that while the moderator who told me this supported my banning and stated that the rules would be changed because of my circumstnaces they have not been in over four years.

The quote that Olgit posted actually is from two or three years after my banning occurred. because even then there was still that much conmdemnation of the moderators doing what they did and how they did it. I cannot confirm this but I was told by a friend who spoke to Judith Gleieber at the time of the actual incident that while she was not prepared to to get involved that she said something to the effect that it would not have happened that way had Steve been alive. I cannot confrim she said that but I was told she did. That quote was Mrs Glieber acting out of loyalty to her moderators whom she felt deep gratitude for (and rightly so) keeping Steve's site alive.

The important point here is that one of the moderators again confirmed even as this was happening that it was not because I had broken forum rules or behaved improperly. Indeed this is why the action was highly unpopular at the time and as I say for two and three years afterwards remained at times at hotly debated issue.

I have no issue with Olgit pointing out I was banned - in fact I believe I had said as much myself previously. My issue if wwith him taking what he learned and posting it without context and using to impugn my character when in fact as i said my character was not in fact the issue there. I still converse regularly with many members form there even some whom I know dislike my views very much. Though honestly I need to catch up with some of them soon in fact. Guess this is at least as good an excuse as any.

This quote......

... "I have decided over a year ago that because of the disruptive nature of some postings (or posters) and in particular USMartin, these people will be banned for good. There are other arsenal forums they can join but not the Steve Gleiber Arsenal forum. I will not allow ..."

was from JUDITH GLEIBER

Funny - this was from Mrs. Gleiber as well from the time of my banning.

Dear Martin,

Thank you for your kind letter regarding my adored Son Steve! We have always been very proud of him, mainly for his conduct
and sense of fair play towards everybody and He demonstrated this althrough his very short life!

I only went on his site when He passed away and was very moved by the love that came from hundreds of people who never met
Him, but got the very core of his believes and ideology by just being on his forum!

For me it was most important to keep the Steve Gleiber Arsenal Home Pages going and we choose Roger, his very good friend to
do this. Roger is doing a very admarable job, he has made very necessary changes and updates several times in the past 3 and a half
years!
It is a lot of work and needs a great deal of dedication, which he does without any monetary gain, only because of the love and
friendship he had towards Steve, all the moderators are giving up their time without any gain to themselves!

I do not interfere with the running of the forum, number one because I don't have any knowledge of the web nor Arsenal, number
two because I can see that any changes they make are only in the interest of the long life of the site and to make it easier and more
enjoyable for all the forumites, plus I have the highest regard and thanks for every one of them!

Tragically my Son is not here to run it, but I am 100% sure He would not run it any differently and the people who are running it
are doing their very best and are doing The Steve Gleiber Arsenal Home pages proud!

Kind Regards,
Judith Gleiber

That is the message I received at the time in replay to my contacting the Gleibers about the situation. I could provide the e-mail link to a moderator if you so desire. But what I will share with you is this - she clealry did not take any action against me at the time.

You will read what Mrs Gleiber said I hope.

Very nice letter from Mrs Gleiber.

How does this have any bearing on her later words about you?

[USMartin]

USMartin

Olgit is far from an asshole
He is a decent bloke with a lot of good qualities.

We now have two sides of your story about your banning from another Forum, though we do not know what was offensive about what you posted.

You are obviously dedicated to Forums and lengthy debate in a way few, if any, posters on here are.

Honestly I do not want you banned from here. You do have a sense of humour, and an interesting, if lengthy and unwelcomingly fecund, take on the board.

But carry on as you are, insulting people, countering arguments with an intense, and splitting hairs analysis, and accusing people of intentionally altering or witholding facts, and you will be very much marginalised.
Possibly outright ignored,
or more probably outright mocked.

I'm sorry but my experience with him suggests that is precisely what he is or chooses to be.

I don't think I have said anybody wants me banned here at this point. If that is incorrect I apologize. I don't think Olgit wants that. I just think he set out to discredit me and my views and tried to do in a flatly irresponsible way, and after the fact even continued doing so.

He basically attempted to prove his view about me and my posts was justified by this link, which would be fine accept agin he didn't know all the details first. If he had PM'd that very same message the very same way word-for-word I would have no issue with him but me introduced very out-of context claims against me them as fact.

Youn and I can disagree about the issues we do - specifically about whethern the manner in your posts consitutes mis-leading other readers, but I would not just drop something our of the blue on you that proved me right like that unless i was 100% certain of the context and facts. I even thought of doing that because I saw posts that referred to you simply want to win arguments, but because I had little interest in the details being argued and read little more it would be wrong to cite those things in the open without giving you chance to explain why that would not be true in private.

All he had to do was PM that and it would fine and if it were confirmed that his reading of things were correct he'd be free to have at me over it all he wanted. But I think he just wanted to have it me and the truth was secondary to him.

Like I say he talked about childish slander. Well this is grown-up slander so Olgit has to deal with it and be dealt with like a grown-up. He crossed a line and its own him now to right things and so far he's tried justifying himself instead. I am the last person who would ant him orr anyone banned because trust me I have more experience with that than anyone and it sucks and its embarassing when it happens. So the reason I'm angry enough to demand that is because his behavior was that out of order.

[marcengels]

can we stop the bullshit on here lads.....????? USmartin you have to accept people dont agree or dont want to go along with your view on the board of Arsenal but also it seems everyone else is bumming eachother up to have digs at USMartin ie quartz is winning the boxing match, quality posts or animations that depict Martin but not Quartz or oldgit etc etc etc....

Now i have nothing against USMartin, Quartz, olgit or anyone else on here but its becoming quite tedious and im suprised you all havent got better things to do

Are you really Flash? None of us really give off the air of people who lead driven, purposeful lives...

[USMartin]

[quote="olgitgoonerHow does this have any bearing on her later words about you?[/quote]

Again

I do not interfere with the running of the forum, number one because I don't have any knowledge of the web nor Arsenal, number
two because I can see that any changes they make are only in the interest of the long life of the site and to make it easier and more
enjoyable for all the forumites, plus I have the highest regard and thanks for every one of them!


Is that clear enough? If not how is this

I do not interfere with the running of the forum,

or how's this

I do not interfere

Does that sound like someone who actually had any input on the actual decision at the tiem it was made or after that.

As I say and anyone who read the forum can attest from the time the decision was made the forum was sharply divided with a majority of the forum's longest-standing and most-respected members - even if they did not like my views or how I expressed them - behind me and my rights. Go back and read the forum, not only was the case at the time but a numerous occasions afterwards, including at the time Mrs Gleiber posted that message..

I could even show some very critical comments of her other forum members made to me in the wake of that posting if I wished but prefer not to. I am deeply disappointed by what Mrs Gleiber did and why but have too much affection for Steve his family and his memory to be that personally vindictive. I only showed you that message to point out that that post did not reflects eventts as they in fact happened and feel uncomfortable doing that even.

[LDB]

seems a tad non committal to me... at no point does that email apologise for banning you, she is merely absolving herself of any responsibility.

If anything this: "Tragically my Son is not here to run it, but I am 100% sure He would not run it any differently" suggests your claim to victim status is somewhat shaky.

No doubt this post is pissing in the wind, if there is one thing I've learned about you is that you read what you want to read.

[USMartin]

can we stop the bullshit on here lads.....????? USmartin you have to accept people dont agree or dont want to go along with your view on the board of Arsenal but also it seems everyone else is bumming eachother up to have digs at USMartin ie quartz is winning the boxing match, quality posts or animations that depict Martin but not Quartz or oldgit etc etc etc....

Now i have nothing against USMartin, Quartz, olgit or anyone else on here but its becoming quite tedious and im suprised you all havent got better things to do

Flash I think you are mixing issues here. You may be right maybe we need you to get us invites to the cool kids parties or something

But this isn't about whether people agree with me or not. This would be just as wrong if someone did it to you - including me, and as long it wasn't me who did it (which is simply not going to happen I would have discussed it privately first and made sure I knew what I was posting) I would be encouraging you to demand he make things right or face the same conssequences I am asking for.

What he did was way beyond just disagreeing with anyone's views, it was using outide information to discredit someone and their personal views without first being sure of the details. That wouild be out of order no matter where he did it or why.

How would you feel if your boss called you in their office and said someone gave him information of some sort that cast serious aspersions or your personal character but without alerting you they were doing that or getting your side of the story first, and the information could cost you your job unless those details are made clear?