Belfast Boy wrote:
It is very easy to be too eager to be dismissive of others views when debating. Problem is, on a forum such as this, such a stance is self-defeating. Now Martin, I don't want to add to the list of people currently rallying against you as you and myself have no previous. I am, however, familiar with most of the members that I'm referring to and they are mostly long standing and very strong posters using equally intelligent thought processes, and when they do come to a different conclusion to you, maybe you should lend some weight to those conclusions. It's called respect and when people sense you're not listening - and let's face it, people know the difference - they feel disrespect and it's the one thing I think we can all agree on that as individuals we will not take from anyone..................
I think there are two points here.
First I was not challenging the intellect of anyone in the point I made about those posters, or even their manner(though I could in a couple of cases for sure) but was pointing out their common motivation. The fact is their dislike of my actual views has every bit as much to do with their anger about how or how often I post them,and that is that. If I posted the same way in the volume but in support of the Board they would be defending me doing so against other forum members who were upset by my pro-Board views as they are now by my anti-Board views.
It genuinely isn’t personal to me, or wasn’t until very recently and two people’s actions that I think were just bang out of order occurred, but this idea this is simply them not ling bad forum etiquette isn’t true. This is simply them really not liking my forum views. If you play the same song over and over and over but your mates like it that much too no one will complain, will they? Same thing here
I certainly share some responsibility in how this debate about debate has gotten out of hand and more personal but at its roots it comes down to their dislike of my views rather than how or how often I present them.
Second, I have always tried to remain respectful to everybody here, though there is no denying recently the gloves have come off with certain individuals. Have I been perfect in this regard? No but no one has in all honesty.
However, having said that, it is not disrespectful not to just accept a flawed argument as valid or the deliberate withholding of information as dishonest, if that is the truth. The truth is not disrespectful to anyone. For example when someone makes an argument about the similarity between to projects and omits a key difference or distinction between those projects that can alter the perception and judgment of that argument, that is dishonest, not merely a not pointing out a technicality.
Indeed the reason this person chose to avoid providing these details is not to mis-lead me because he knows I am aware of them and thus his omitting them will not mis-lead me, but to mis-lead others reading his views, especially those whose views might be altered toward his own if they accept his thesis without those details. If anything those kinds of activities are not merely disrespectful if you will to the person you are debating but disrespectful or certainly discourteous to any other poster reading the debate as well. It is not disrespectful to point that out.I certainly would not take it disrespectfully especially not if that were actually a valid claim made about something I posted.
It is also not respectful to pretend a person is being honest or accurate when they are not either it only sets them up for a later and possibly greater humiliation down the road either from or someone else when they actually go too far for it to be ignored, which is what happens when people are allowed to get away with anything in any walk of life.
Genuine differences of opinion even strong ones are absolutely legitimate and worthy of respect. Knowingly using bad information however, or withholding valid information to defend or justify those opinions is not legitimate and when done repeatedly or even after being pointed out beyone doubt not worthy of respect.
) the realists were fed up with the tinters using such extreme cases of profligacy concerning Leeds and Pompey etc. in defence of the board's extreme frugality!
