echoed a million percent. This is the reason why i find it hard to come and post on here because there is a semi decent discussion going on and then it spirals off into something about the fucking board. USMartin i understand you have the right to voice your opinions but it seems every topic you talk about you bring it round to the boardChippy wrote:FOR FACK SAKE, SHUT UP
I'm talking to Martin of course
Of course you and don't worry everyone realized that the minute you posted so don't sweat worrying about obeing offensive to anyone you stupid prat.Chippy wrote:FOR FACK SAKE, SHUT UP
I'm talking to Martin of course
Hijack Alertolgitgooner wrote:Thank you frankbutcher for starting this thread.
Seriously. If it keeps all the shite in one place then I'll be a happy bunny.
Sadly, it won't. As soon as this thread dies a death USM will be infecting other threads with the usual stuff.
Well there we have it.USMartin wrote:Hijack Alertolgitgooner wrote:Thank you frankbutcher for starting this thread.
Seriously. If it keeps all the shite in one place then I'll be a happy bunny.
Sadly, it won't. As soon as this thread dies a death USM will be infecting other threads with the usual stuff.
Hijack Alert
Guess I sound kind of twattish doing that, eh? Well guess what....
If you don't want me in your threads that pretend to be serious disucssions fine then be a man and stay out of ny threads.
Some of you are shameless hypocites and very little more I am afraid.
Hardly a surprise really I'm afraid as you have several who feel free to complain when threads they like are hijack but constantly and shamelessly hijack they don't like being opened in order to undermine thoase who wish to actuallu use the threads to actually discuss something. I could name names as its the same people over and over but I think we all know who we are talking aboutfrankbutcher wrote: Well well well, my masterplan has failed.
Seriously, even the discussion in this thread about the Board doesn't stick to the Board
The thing is this is an Arsenal Board, not an easy life Board. I mean if they don't want to get involved in these discussions or debates they don't have to. But as you have seen here some of these people aren't content not to discuss these things themselves or even to limit their discussion in threads where they can and should be discussed in my mind. They don't want them discussed anywhere on here and ask them I'll give some very specific names if you like. I think you wouldn't even need to ask from experience.frankbutcher wrote:Martin - please make an effort to respect people's alternative views, even if in your opinion they are without foundation. Some people care about this topic, others don't. To be fair, some people just want an easy life.
frankbutcher wrote:I can only echo earlier comments that you are to be respected for your views, which I mostly agree with. The problem is that nothing will do for you other than complete agreement.
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZUSMartin wrote:There's a lot here Frank so I'll take on a bit at a time if you do not mind
Hardly a surprise really I'm afraid as you have several who feel free to complain when threads they like are hijack but constantly and shamelessly hijack they don't like being opened in order to undermine thoase who wish to actuallu use the threads to actually discuss something. I could name names as its the same people over and over but I think we all know who we are talking aboutfrankbutcher wrote: Well well well, my masterplan has failed.
Seriously, even the discussion in this thread about the Board doesn't stick to the Board
http://www.onlinegooner.com/phpbb2/view ... 62&start=0
I would suggest taking a serious look at this thread now in the basement as it's very instructive. No do not bother reading it - dear God I'm not that sadistic but scroll through it. Notice in particular my contribution to the thread in its totality over the fiirst six days the thread was opened then just scroll thrugh the names from Monday on. Largely its the same small group of pepople some of whom have carried on the very same behavior here on this thread.
I am sick and tired - and I have read the entire post here - of being the one who has to be the grown-up all the the time because no one seems to want to want to tell this people to grow up. You went out of your way to set this up which is why I have respected it despite what I said earlier, and yet I would say several people with no desire at all to discuss these matters or to have them discussed on this forum have gone out of their way to try and disrupt it and it's time for them to shut the fuck up and I shouldn't be the only one to tell them this.
It's simply hypocritical and childish behavior by self-styled forum Brownshirts sdetermined to enforce their version of what the forum should be on all of us even when we do and I do try to consider their wishes and that should not just be tolerated here. These are adults and they control their behavior and should be held responsible for that. If they were maybe they'd behave a bit more like adults
The thing is this is an Arsenal Board, not an easy life Board. I mean if they don't want to get involved in these discussions or debates they don't have to. But as you have seen here some of these people aren't content not to discuss these things themselves or even to limit their discussion in threads where they can and should be discussed in my mind. They don't want them discussed anywhere on here and ask them I'll give some very specific names if you like. I think you wouldn't even need to ask from experience.frankbutcher wrote:Martin - please make an effort to respect people's alternative views, even if in your opinion they are without foundation. Some people care about this topic, others don't. To be fair, some people just want an easy life.
As to respecting other views and I think I am very reasonable on that. My problem is when people expressing those views knowingly use bad evidence or bad sources to support them, especially after this has been proven true.
In one instance the person in question atttempted to make an argument that we cannot judge in any way the decision to re-develop Highbury instead of selling it for forty to fifty years once even specifically statin the year 2050.
He said this was based on the precednt established by the contruction of the East and West Stands noting they took four decades to pay off and produced profits for the club for decades after that, and there fore the same satndard should be applied at Highbury Square. I proved to the argument be wrong (in my opinion)because the comparison was utterly invalid(Highbury Square was fully paid for within five years and will provides the club with profits for seven or maybe eight years), so you couldn't take a project with a seventy year time scale and favorably compare to project with maybe an eight year timescale - that six DECADE gap is a little problematic.
EVEN then though he stated his deliberately making a bad argument supported by knowingly misleading information constituted nothing but innocent and legitimate difference of opinion. I agrred to an extext - provided he presented the full information so as not to mis-lead other readers. His defence for not doing so was his view that the 60-year difference in the length of the projects was a"technicality".
And yes I have a problem with someone who knowingl;y continues to use deliberately mis-leading information to win support for their viewpoint. I happily admit that. Guilty as charged. This wasn't just a different interpretation of the same facts but a deliberate mis-represenation of the facts being discussed, and deliberate choice to omit information that might prove that to be the case to those reading his views for the first time.
frankbutcher wrote:I can only echo earlier comments that you are to be respected for your views, which I mostly agree with. The problem is that nothing will do for you other than complete agreement.
I sincerely appreciate that but unfortunately that doesn't seem to be enough for some of these clowns. I would not call for bannings save for the one case in which I did, but these people need to be told they're behaving like assholes - pardon my language - if an when they are behaving that way and they need to be told that not asked nicely because they are the sort that only behave I suspect when embarassed into doing so. At least that is the case in my experience with some of them.
I certainly think that is a possibility after after all we are a professional football club meaning we buy and pay for our footballers. So it is possible that if the Board are restrciting the manager's finances it maybe negatively impacting the football team he has built since 2005 and impeding his ability to address the tream's deficiencies properly or promptly - if in fact my concerns are proven correct.frankbutcher wrote:I must take issue with one of your comments that you get involved in threads if Wenger is being lambasted, because you feel that he is being constrained by the Board and therefore should be defended. Do you really believe this? Are you seriously blaming the Board for our Goal-keeping issue, the likes of Denilson, Diaby and Flappy, plus multiple other crap players? Even if Wenger was working on an absolute shoe-string budget (he's not), surely he could do better than what we've got.
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZUSMartin wrote:I certainly think that is a possibility after after all we are a professional football club meaning we buy and pay for our footballers. So it is possible that if the Board are restrciting the manager's finances it maybe negatively impacting the football team he has built since 2005 and impeding his ability to address the tream's deficiencies properly or promptly - if in fact my concerns are proven correct.frankbutcher wrote:I must take issue with one of your comments that you get involved in threads if Wenger is being lambasted, because you feel that he is being constrained by the Board and therefore should be defended. Do you really believe this? Are you seriously blaming the Board for our Goal-keeping issue, the likes of Denilson, Diaby and Flappy, plus multiple other crap players? Even if Wenger was working on an absolute shoe-string budget (he's not), surely he could do better than what we've got.
As I noted earlier in our discussions the fact is we may under our current financial policy be able to afford no one much or any better than anyone currently in the side other than a couple of bargains that really worked out. We deal in a very restricted talent pool compared to before 2005 because of these restrictive spending policies with far fewer proven top players to pursue and less certainty of the lesser players we can pursue reaching that top level with us.
That is why we should want to explore these issues further and seek more and more complete and accurate information from the Club or the Board on these issues. That information coould well if provided prove me utterly wrong or incorrect and the Wenger out voices 100% percent correct. The problem is it might just prove me largely correct in fact. I don't think any of us can say with absolute certainty right now.
I would not say I am certain my concerns are correct based upon what I know and have leaned the past several years. I would say however that they have been proven to justified or valid concerns as in reason to want to explore them further. For many or most of us to want to explore further.
Yea, sure he can write it crap on the official forum. I even invited him.frankbutcher wrote:Martin - I have a saying in life...."Don't waste time worrying about things you've got no control over." I use it in my line of work. Sometimes the clients I deal with aren't willing to comply with the terms I set out to them, even though it will help their business. They don't want help!
You should apply this to the Forum. People use this forum for a bit of a laugh and a discussion abbout Arsenal along the way. It sounds as if .com is a bit more straight-laced and probably akin to your style of argument, although saying that it is rose-tinter dominated (from what I've heard).
I think you've done a sterling job putting across your views and I dare say you've won a few over. But perhaps the way to win the war is to adapt to circumstances (which I am required to do each day at work). The current approach is clearly gettiing people's backs up, so what's the point in flogging a dead horse. You're actually worsening your position by creating so many opponents.
I've got two suggestions:
1) Give the Forum a break (for you and the Forum's benefit).
2) Why not write an article to be submitted to the Gooner Magazine. If you can get something published, then it willl form a line in the sand from which you can work from and gain support for your petition.
Just my two penneth.......
It’s because you are polite and courteous and respectable do not deliberately use false or mis-leading information to make your points and do not when I refuse to shut the fack up try to discredit me by questioning whether I am an actual supporter just because I don’t agree with your views.frankbutcher wrote:The thing I find most odd is that on the occassions we have spoken on PM, we have had a grown up chat and you have said that I may be right, but I may be wrong. Whether this is because I have historically known a bit more about the Club than most, I don't know. But you seem to be more balanced, more willing to cede points and altogether less confrontational.
