Gooner Doomers

[Titi2]

http://www.onlinegooner.com/exclusive/index.php?id=1900

http://www.onlinegooner.com/exclusive/index.php?id=1902

Arsene Wenger is going about it the right way?

Excuse me, but how is ignoring the importance of defending and refusing to appoint a competent defensive coach going about it the right way?

The current crop of defenders are much better players than the material with which Martin Keown created the best defence in the Champions League in 2005/06. Remember how good Sagna looked when he first arrived? 3 years at Arsenal and he has forgotten how to defend. Ditto Clichy. Without proper defensive coaching, Vermaelen will go the same way.

And, by the way, having a clown in goal behind the defence undermines any potential of the defence to play like good defenders. Is that going about it the right way?

What is so infuriating is that only small adjustments and very few ££ are needed to make the current team 50% better, yet because of someone's ego that will not happen. Is "I want to win my way, not someone else's way", in the best interests of the club?

[bunch]

In response to the Doomer post and Sammy Mooner's "Another rant..." the angst from the latest carbon copy defeat at the hands of Chelsea is that Wenger's tactical ineptness has been exposed again. Is he pre-match briefing little more than "Go out there and play our game". Because that sure as hell isn't what Acellotti or Ferguson do.


We've been beaten by Chelsea so many times in exactly the same way surely he has leanrt.

It is laudable that AW trys to develop players and nurture talent be it via our youth system or by buying talented but 'unknown' players and bringing them on. And I totally agree that spending isn't necessarily the way to ensure success although if you spend enough (Chelsea and I am sure soon Man City) you will buy trophies. But AW needs to make our team more adaptable and more resilient. We need to have a plan B for every game. In fact a Plan A woudl be a start becasue "Go out and play our game" isn't a plan in my book.

I love beautiful football. But unless it is winning football it is just masturbation. AW is turning us all into wankers.

We now have to stomach losing to Chelsea and Manu regularly. I think we may be asked to stomach losing to Man City regularly. But is we are being asked to stomach losing to Spurs on a regular basis there will be 'civil disorder'.

[bookanengineer]

The blogosphere has changed considerably over time. Several years ago there did used to be an unjust amount of criticism from our own supporters on blogs, during our successful period. It was popular for the general blog population to see who could be the biggest moaner. I found that very tiresome and ended up spending too much time fighting the cause of the club. But how the worm has turned, and I find the current trend even more tiresome. Who can be the "best" supporter. Yes you can't move from site to site without being clubbed with bloggers queuing up to be the most loyal, the most patient, the most derisory of anyone with a negative opinion. How lucky we are to have these supporters, it makes me quite ashamed of all that passion I have for the team, how I want to throw myself through the window every time we lose to Chelsea. It's greedy, selfish behaviour. I should probably be supporting Chelsea .. so they would say.

It's my view that the general Arsenal population, the supporters, the people that actually go to the matches, home and away, are thoroughly depressed. And that these true, golden, unflappable supporters are the idiots of yesteryear. It's very easy to be patient when it doesn't mean that much to you, but when your entire life is turned into a nightmare with terrible repurcussions for all around you, it matters, it matters when we see the same mistakes, it matters that the manager doesn't sign a goalkeeper, it matters a great deal. It is absolutely normal, appropriate and sensible for all passionate Arsenal supporters to be moaning at this time. Yes things could be worse, but they could and should be better. Thankfully very few decent supporters call for massive transfer outlays, and we're almost to a man proud of the financial way the club is being run, we just want to see footballing improvement. We want to see the players being coached defensively, we want to see players standing up on the pitch rather than voicing how determined they are in newspaper columns. We want to see substitutions made when the team needs it, rather than when the clock dictates a pre-determined decision. We want to see young goalkeepers sent on loan, rather than learning in our first team, like every other team who hopes to win things. We want players like Cliche held to account for repeated glaring errors of judgement rather than left to work it out for himself.

I'm proud of Wenger, I'm proud of his ideas, I want him to stay and fix things, but that's where my loyalty begins and ends - I'm proud that I care enough to be upset and to spout my opinions. Keeping your mouth shut doesn't make you a better fan, staying cheerful and grateful regardless of what's happening doesn't make you a better fan. As the Russians were approaching the gates of Berlin, there were but a handful of nazi-party fanatics who remained, the German population had seen enough of a flawed regime. I'm sure they felt like the most true supporters of Germany at the time, but history shows them as sheep, dangerous sheep who prolonged the suffering of the German population. By all means be proud of the financial prudence and sensible running of our football club, of our new found footballing principles, but be careful of crossing the line between optimist and sheep.

I'm pleased with the way we played against Chelsea, some times you get beaten, some time you beat yourselves, I thought we got beaten, often that hasn't been the case. So I'm an optimist today, but I certainly couldn't argue with anyone feeling hateful about it, anyone saying "same old, same old", how can you argue with that?, the evidence is in favour of that opinion but sometimes you have to try and find hope where you can get it.

I'm delighted that the Online Gooner has remained a place where opinion, and disappointment, can be catered for.

[the playing mantis]

excellent post kanengineerwhat but what a load of crap both original articles are, conveniently missing the point, especially the mooner one..no one is saying spend 20 million, people are saying spend 5 million on a decent keeper, and 10 million on a holding midfielder if we're lucky.

articles like this can't be taken seriously when they just spout half truths, a net spend of 20 million in one summer is tiny, especially given the financial position of the club and the lack of investment in previous years.

sammy mooners was possible the worst, stupidest, most blinkered article on here for quite some time.

[I Hate Hleb]

Brilliant post bookanengineer. Couldn't have been put much better.

[mcdowell42]

The blogosphere has changed considerably over time. Several years ago there did used to be an unjust amount of criticism from our own supporters on blogs, during our successful period. It was popular for the general blog population to see who could be the biggest moaner. I found that very tiresome and ended up spending too much time fighting the cause of the club. But how the worm has turned, and I find the current trend even more tiresome. Who can be the "best" supporter. Yes you can't move from site to site without being clubbed with bloggers queuing up to be the most loyal, the most patient, the most derisory of anyone with a negative opinion. How lucky we are to have these supporters, it makes me quite ashamed of all that passion I have for the team, how I want to throw myself through the window every time we lose to Chelsea. It's greedy, selfish behaviour. I should probably be supporting Chelsea .. so they would say.


It's my view that the general Arsenal population, the supporters, the people that actually go to the matches, home and away, are thoroughly depressed. And that these true, golden, unflappable supporters are the idiots of yesteryear. It's very easy to be patient when it doesn't mean that much to you, but when your entire life is turned into a nightmare with terrible repurcussions for all around you, it matters, it matters when we see the same mistakes, it matters that the manager doesn't sign a goalkeeper, it matters a great deal. It is absolutely normal, appropriate and sensible for all passionate Arsenal supporters to be moaning at this time. Yes things could be worse, but they could and should be better. Thankfully very few decent supporters call for massive transfer outlays, and we're almost to a man proud of the financial way the club is being run, we just want to see footballing improvement. We want to see the players being coached defensively, we want to see players standing up on the pitch rather than voicing how determined they are in newspaper columns. We want to see substitutions made when the team needs it, rather than when the clock dictates a pre-determined decision. We want to see young goalkeepers sent on loan, rather than learning in our first team, like every other team who hopes to win things. We want players like Cliche held to account for repeated glaring errors of judgement rather than left to work it out for himself.

I'm proud of Wenger, I'm proud of his ideas, I want him to stay and fix things, but that's where my loyalty begins and ends - I'm proud that I care enough to be upset and to spout my opinions. Keeping your mouth shut doesn't make you a better fan, staying cheerful and grateful regardless of what's happening doesn't make you a better fan. As the Russians were approaching the gates of Berlin, there were but a handful of nazi-party fanatics who remained, the German population had seen enough of a flawed regime. I'm sure they felt like the most true supporters of Germany at the time, but history shows them as sheep, dangerous sheep who prolonged the suffering of the German population. By all means be proud of the financial prudence and sensible running of our football club, of our new found footballing principles, but be careful of crossing the line between optimist and sheep.

I'm pleased with the way we played against Chelsea, some times you get beaten, some time you beat yourselves, I thought we got beaten, often that hasn't been the case. So I'm an optimist today, but I certainly couldn't argue with anyone feeling hateful about it, anyone saying "same old, same old", how can you argue with that?, the evidence is in favour of that opinion but sometimes you have to try and find hope where you can get it.

I'm delighted that the Online Gooner has remained a place where opinion, and disappointment, can be catered for.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

[USMartin]

The blogosphere has changed considerably over time. Several years ago there did used to be an unjust amount of criticism from our own supporters on blogs, during our successful period. It was popular for the general blog population to see who could be the biggest moaner. I found that very tiresome and ended up spending too much time fighting the cause of the club. But how the worm has turned, and I find the current trend even more tiresome. Who can be the "best" supporter. Yes you can't move from site to site without being clubbed with bloggers queuing up to be the most loyal, the most patient, the most derisory of anyone with a negative opinion. How lucky we are to have these supporters, it makes me quite ashamed of all that passion I have for the team, how I want to throw myself through the window every time we lose to Chelsea. It's greedy, selfish behaviour. I should probably be supporting Chelsea .. so they would say.


:

It's my view that the general Arsenal population, the supporters, the people that actually go to the matches, home and away, are thoroughly depressed. And that these true, golden, unflappable supporters are the idiots of yesteryear. It's very easy to be patient when it doesn't mean that much to you, but when your entire life is turned into a nightmare with terrible repurcussions for all around you, it matters, it matters when we see the same mistakes, it matters that the manager doesn't sign a goalkeeper, it matters a great deal. It is absolutely normal, appropriate and sensible for all passionate Arsenal supporters to be moaning at this time. Yes things could be worse, but they could and should be better. Thankfully very few decent supporters call for massive transfer outlays, and we're almost to a man proud of the financial way the club is being run, we just want to see footballing improvement. We want to see the players being coached defensively, we want to see players standing up on the pitch rather than voicing how determined they are in newspaper columns. We want to see substitutions made when the team needs it, rather than when the clock dictates a pre-determined decision. We want to see young goalkeepers sent on loan, rather than learning in our first team, like every other team who hopes to win things. We want players like Cliche held to account for repeated glaring errors of judgement rather than left to work it out for himself.

I'm proud of Wenger, I'm proud of his ideas, I want him to stay and fix things, but that's where my loyalty begins and ends - I'm proud that I care enough to be upset and to spout my opinions. Keeping your mouth shut doesn't make you a better fan, staying cheerful and grateful regardless of what's happening doesn't make you a better fan. As the Russians were approaching the gates of Berlin, there were but a handful of nazi-party fanatics who remained, the German population had seen enough of a flawed regime. I'm sure they felt like the most true supporters of Germany at the time, but history shows them as sheep, dangerous sheep who prolonged the suffering of the German population. By all means be proud of the financial prudence and sensible running of our football club, of our new found footballing principles, but be careful of crossing the line between optimist and sheep.

I'm pleased with the way we played against Chelsea, some times you get beaten, some time you beat yourselves, I thought we got beaten, often that hasn't been the case. So I'm an optimist today, but I certainly couldn't argue with anyone feeling hateful about it, anyone saying "same old, same old", how can you argue with that?, the evidence is in favour of that opinion but sometimes you have to try and find hope where you can get it.

I'm delighted that the Online Gooner has remained a place where opinion, and disappointment, can be catered for.

BRAVO *BANGING IMKWELL ON DESK*

:barscarf

[djhdjh]

There used to be a football club over here.

Now we're some idealistic bullshit crusade.

[TeeCee]

Bookanengineer - Fantastic post and sums up how a lot of 'realists' truly feel.

[Merlin96]

Bookanengineer, excellent read.

I had been slagged from pillar to post for calling Le Professeur a "hypocritical snake-oil salesman" although it was the admiration of him that dragged moi into Arsenal Fan Club.....