time to drop 451/433?

[stg]

Is it time for Wenger to go back to the 442 formation?

Looking at our squad the 433/451 formation should work more attacking while giving us defensive cover. In truth it seems to offer neither, the midfield give very little to the defensive side of the game leaving our right and left backs with no help and our central defensive partners stretched.

With this you would of thought our attacking options would be great but it seems that our attack is easily negated and without Nasri and Walcott we lack pace. Chimack looks like the type of forward we need but like Bendtner needs a partner to feed off him(Walcott or Vela), Arshavin does not look happy playing in the wide left position.

I think Wenger has fallen into the trap of trying to play everybody he can instead of playing to the players ability's. We now have Fabregas, Nasri, Arshavin and Rosicky who all like playing down the middle of the midfield. We have Walcott and Vela both played out on the wing when they are both strikers who (I think) play well with a partner and players like Song, Diaby ect who Wenger either does not know what their best positions is(is Song a holding, normal or attacking midfield player and what is Diaby's best position?).

The 433/451 formation looks suited to just 2 players Fabregas to give more time on the ball which is a good thing but at what expense to the rest of the squad and to RVP to play on the right of the 3. With the injury problems of RVP and the uncertainness of Fabregas's future is it right for the rest of the squad to fit in around them.

So perhaps it's time to for Wenger to go back to the basics of a 442 formation give Chimack a partner, get a midfield that works going back as well as forward to help give the defence cover?

[brazilianGOONER]

i haven't read your post as it is too long (sorry) , but i do agree that maybe it's time to think again about our tactics. this 'barcelona' system works well with teams that work their asses off and press high up the pitch, but if the wingers don't provide cover to the fullbacks (arshavin ) and the only defensive midfielder thinks he is dennis bergkamp , then it obviously won't work.

i'd love to see arshavin playing as a second striker behind RvP, which is actually the position he plays best, and maybe nasri and theo on the wings. the only question is: who would we play alongside cesc in the middle? song?

we don't have a flamini type player anymore, and that would be necessary imo

[Gunnersaurus]

Been saying this for a long time, this formation is set out to get the best out of one or two but is destroying the rest.

Song is also destroying the side in this formation, a lot of the defensive weaknesses stem from him not doing his job which is to defend the defenders and give the attacking midfieldrrs the security to go and do their thing.

Sagna and Clichy have looked woeful for a couple of seasons but were class before, its no coincidence.

[AA23Northbank]

Been saying this for a long time, this formation is set out to get the best out of one or two but is destroying the rest.

Song is also destroying the side in this formation, a lot of the defensive weaknesses stem from him not doing his job which is to defend the defenders and give the attacking midfieldrrs the security to go and do their thing.
Sagna and Clichy have looked woeful for a couple of seasons but were class before, its no coincidence.

Nail on the head, he should be the one protecting the back 4 and not going on silly foreays upfield!

Might as well play Arshavin in the hole behind Chamakh and shift Nasri wide if we go to 4-4-2, may not be ideal but it's worth a shot as we have been shite with 4-3-3

[hugh jardon]

Trouble with 442 is that it requires the players to be disciplined and carry out specific roles eg always one cm holding and the two wide mfs tracking back to help defensively, Arsene knows our players ate incapable of doing this, I feel he relies on 433 to over power the oppo with attacking players as we don't have any defensive minded mfs

[Chippy]

On Sky last night they said AW reckons its a 4-1-4-1. I wish it was cos I reckon that might work, assuming the 1 protects the back 4.

[Spiral]

Trouble with 442 is that it requires the players to be disciplined and carry out specific roles eg always one cm holding and the two wide mfs tracking back to help defensively, Arsene knows our players ate incapable of doing this, I feel he relies on 433 to over power the oppo with attacking players as we don't have any defensive minded mfs

That's the thing, instead of having a system that suits the players, he should of had a system like 4-4-2 and find the players to play it.
I would not like to see Arsenal play a 4-4-2 with Song and Denilson as the central midfielders .

[QuartzGooner]

MIDFIELD:

As Spiral says, I do not think we have the correct central midfielders to play 4-4-2.

For that formation to be effective, I think it needs a very dynamic midfield ballwinner who's work allows the other central midfielder to be more creative.

Or even two dynamic midfield ballwinners, with an attacking aspect to their game i.e. Petit and Vieira.

The current squad does not posses this balance among senior players.


If 4-4-2 was to be tried next season, then how might it work?

We do have two dynamic midfield ballwinners: Frimpong and Coquelin.
They have looked very good in pre-season, and the French league, but neither has any substantial Premier League or European experience for us, and Frimpong is in middle of recovering from serious ligament damage.

So another option might be a 4-4-2 with a midfield of:

Walcott ---Wilshere--- Ramsey---Nasri.

The two central players are good passers, but both have a bit of spite to their game.
I think that midfield could trounce weak teams, but be ploughed through by the likes of Man Utd and Chelsea.

What of Song?

Fine as a sitting midfield player, not top level but ok, he does make forward runs.
Yet I have seen no evidence of him having the engine to be a central midfielder in a 4-4-2.

What of Diaby and Denilson?

I have seen little evidence to suggest they can be regular starters of a high standard in any formation.


ATTACK:

Two up front?

Could work.

Sit Arshavin behind Chamakh.
Sit Chamakh behind Van Persie (who's strength I believe is shooting rather than build up play, and so should be the forward-most of the strikers).
Sit Chamakh or Arshavin behind Walcott, who could run onto through balls.

Could any of those work?
I would like to see them given a go in pre season, or if we have destroyed Ipswich in the first leg, then in the second leg of the Carling Cup semi.


CONCLUSIONS:

If Coquelin continues to do well in France, and Frimpong looks ok in pre season, why not try matching one of them with Ramsey or Wilshere in central midfield in a 4-4-2?

But if not...we must buy a central midfielder in the Essien mould to make a 4-4-2 work, and improve our current 4-2-3-1.

Another fast, powerful striker would be a useful addition to the squad.
Only Walcott of the regular strikers has pace, but has little power, and he is often used wide.
For 4-4-2 to work, a pacy striker is a real essential, to run onto the through balls from the midfield creative player.
Bendtner and Vela look below standard needed of a regular player.

For 4-2-3-1 to bring success, buying a powerful pacy striker would be very useful!

[brazilianGOONER]

i think cesc has the potential to be one of those mobile players you mention, quartz. i remember that that midfield of hleb-cesc-flamini-rosicky was very good, we could've won the league that season if we had a better defence.

don't forget that we had adebayor and a crocked rvp as only good choices for the attack, this time around we have RvP, chamakh, walcott and bendtner to do the job. touré and gallas were hardly inspiring at the back and i don't think i need to mention manuel almunia in goal

so in my opinion, we're only lacking a player in the flamini mould to play seriously well in a 4-4-2. i think a team of szczesny; sagna, vermaelen (squillaci), djourou, clichy; nasri, cesc, *defensive midfielder*, rosicky (walcott); arshavin, van persie would be a quite good team, and probably perform better than we are doing now.

the problem is that neither of denilson, diaby, song or wilshere are mobile enough and good defensively to play flamini's role.

[marcengels]

Grow some balls first, worry about formation second (not you bG, the team )

[QuartzGooner]

BG

Cesc could be creative midfield player in a 4-4-2 , but will he be an Arsenal player next season?

[brazilianGOONER]

BG

Cesc could be creative midfield player in a 4-4-2 , but will he be an Arsenal player next season?

when he leaves, i can see wilshere or ramsey taking his place. not the same level, i know, but i think both have potential to be very good central midfielders in a 4-4-2

[Spiral]

BG

Cesc could be creative midfield player in a 4-4-2 , but will he be an Arsenal player next season?

We have Nasri

[brazilianGOONER]

BG

Cesc could be creative midfield player in a 4-4-2 , but will he be an Arsenal player next season?

We have Nasri

yeah, but i'm considering nasri for one of the wide positions. if we put him in the middle, who'll be our wide midfield players?

i like to think of nasri as a (VERY) improved alex hleb.

[donaldo]

BG

Cesc could be creative midfield player in a 4-4-2 , but will he be an Arsenal player next season?

We have Nasri

Will he still be at the club?