time to drop 451/433?

mikeyb772001 · Post by **mikeyb772001** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:10 pm

Poitless thread. It will never change. Not for the next 4 years anyway.

Post by **brazilianGOONER** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:12 pm

donaldo wrote:
Spiral wrote:
QuartzGooner wrote:BG

Cesc could be creative midfield player in a 4-4-2 , but will he be an Arsenal player next season?
We have Nasri
Will he still be at the club?

well, we can also play guess who'll be at the club... if it's 'whoever is playing well will leave at the end of the season' then we should start looking for replacements for szczesny and sagna as well.

Post by **brazilianGOONER** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:12 pm

sorry folks, double post.

Spiral · Post by **Spiral** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:17 pm

brazilianGOONER wrote:
Spiral wrote:
QuartzGooner wrote:BG

Cesc could be creative midfield player in a 4-4-2 , but will he be an Arsenal player next season?
We have Nasri
yeah, but i'm considering nasri for one of the wide positions. if we put him in the middle, who'll be our wide midfield players?

i like to think of nasri as a (VERY) improved alex hleb.

In my opinion Nasri is wasted on the wings, buy some real wingers, players that can actually deliver a decent cross .

Arsenal 1991 · Post by **Arsenal 1991** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:19 pm

Just seen this thread, so I'll post what I said on another thread:

These are the players I think we should keep and the formation we should play:

Szczesny
Sagna Vermaelen ??????? Gibbs
?????? Song ??????? Nasri
Van Persie Chamakh

The question marks would be around gibbs and van persie because they are made out of glass and Song.

I reckon a playmaker in the mould of Pirlo and Alonso would be whats needed alongside Song. Wilshere and Ramsey could certainly do that but Im not sure yet whether they could be throw into the first team as our main playmaker. If we had either wilshere or ramsey there then Song would not be good enough and we would need to sign a new defensive midfielder.

Djourou could be good enough for centre back and Walcott for right midfield but not 100% on them.

Got the basics of a good team but a few signings needed for sure.

Post by **brazilianGOONER** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:36 pm

Arsenal 1991 wrote: Got the basics of a good team but a few signings needed for sure.

i think that's one thing that both rosetinters and realists agree with. we have a few very good players, but we NEED a few signings.

wenger is probably the only man in the world who disagrees

stg · Post by **stg** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:29 pm

mikeyb772001 wrote:Poitless thread. It will never change. Not for the next 4 years anyway.

and so are most threads on here to the extent that things will not change thats why this is a discussion forum where people put up ideas and topics to be discussed

Arsenal 1991 · Post by **Arsenal 1991** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:42 pm

stg wrote:
mikeyb772001 wrote:Poitless thread. It will never change. Not for the next 4 years anyway.
and so are most threads on here to the extent that things will not change thats why this is a discussion forum where people put up ideas and topics to be discussed

Ignore the forum nazis, they are just a bit unhappy at the moment. It could change, we were playing 442 only a year ago.

PI7ES · Post by **PI7ES** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:50 pm

Song isnt good enough to play in a 4-4-2, he is to slow and his positional play is awful.

chamakh and rvp also wouldnt work, knowone looking to go inbehind, both dropping deep.

Untill we buy a ball winning midfielder (flamini/gattuso/fletcher/essien type) we cannot play a 4-4-2.

hugh jardon · Post by **hugh jardon** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:19 pm

The team and squad is overloaded with attacking midfielders, hence a formation to try and accommodate them all,

Successful teams always have been reliant on mfs with defensive tendencies able to mix it when needed; Kevin Richardson, Michael Thomas, Parlour, Petit, Vieira, Darren Fletcher, Essien, Ince, Robson etc.

Arsenal 1991 · Post by **Arsenal 1991** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:25 pm

To play 433 we need two proper ball winning midfielders or for the whole team to work hard. Barca only have busquets but they defend as a team, Chelsea have mikel and essien who are enough to make up for drogba, malouda and anelka not tracking back always.

So we can either get rid of arshavin, song and play jack and cesc with a proper dm and play 3 up top who want to defend or keep the same players but replace jack with a proper dm.

I would go for the former.

Gunnersaurus · Post by **Gunnersaurus** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:28 pm

Song is no longer defensive and he is weak going forward, he should move back to centre back or become a back up player.

I was a big fan last year, this year he's beyond poor, he is not the long term solution.

hugh jardon · Post by **hugh jardon** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:37 pm

The team and squad is overloaded with attacking midfielders, hence a formation to try and accommodate them all,

Successful teams always have been reliant on mfs with defensive tendencies able to mix it when needed; Kevin Richardson, Michael Thomas, Parlour, Petit, Vieira, Darren Fletcher, Essien, Ince, Robson etc.

Arsenal 1991 · Post by **Arsenal 1991** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:39 pm

hugh jardon wrote:The team and squad is overloaded with attacking midfielders, hence a formation to try and accommodate them all,

Successful teams always have been reliant on mfs with defensive tendencies able to mix it when needed; Kevin Richardson, Michael Thomas, Parlour, Petit, Vieira, Darren Fletcher, Essien, Ince, Robson etc.

Are you a goldfish.

LeoGooner · Post by **LeoGooner** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 9:01 pm

hugh jardon wrote:The team and squad is overloaded with attacking midfielders, hence a formation to try and accommodate them all,

Successful teams always have been reliant on mfs with defensive tendencies able to mix it when needed; Kevin Richardson, Michael Thomas, Parlour, Petit, Vieira, Darren Fletcher, Essien, Ince, Robson etc.

I have long thought that we have an unbalanced squad. Too many players competing for the advanced central midfield role - Fabregas, Nasri, Arshavin, Rosicky, Diaby (when fit), Wilshere (he is not a defensive midfielder), probably Ramsey and now van Persie as well. We have Walcott played wide when he clearly should be up front in a 442, same with van Persie and Vela. Only Chamakh is a genuine central striker, Bendtner drifts all over the place (usually pointlessly).

Added to that we don't have genuine defensive midfielders (yet - I agree Coquelin and Frimpong could fit the bill in future), actually Denilson is the closest to this at the moment (yes, I know). Nor do we have wide midfield players that help the full backs (Rosicky is perhaps best at this, but Arshavin? please)

We are unbalanced in midfield and attack, hence one dimensional (the no Plan B as some say) and therefore exposed in defence.

I agree the current formation is designed to try to accomodate this imbalance. The answer is not to change the formation but to change some of the players so we have a better blend - a top squad should be able to switch between 433/451 to 442 easily. Oops, like the Mancs and the Chavs do.