time to drop 451/433?

[QuartzGooner]

Spiral

I like Nasri wide right of the three attacking midfielders in our current formation.
He is not really a traditional winger, he is more like Pires who would cut in and score.
Apart from last night's game, Nasri has done well for us this season playing in his position.

Nasri could play wide right in a 4-4-2.
If you had one of Cesc/Wilshere/Ramsey in the middle next to an Essien type, it would be encouraging, especially if Walcott or Clichy were tried wide left (I am thinking Gibbs coudl well be left back next season) rather than Arshavin, who just does not look as if he has the engine to run up and down the flank in a 4-4-2.

Parlour played right midfield, but he was not a traditional winger, he used to cut inside a lot and would play a few yards in from the touchline rather than hugging it.

[Spiral]

Spiral

I like Nasri wide right of the three attacking midfielders in our current formation.
He is not really a traditional winger, he is more like Pires who would cut in and score.
Apart from last night's game, Nasri has done well for us this season playing in his position.

Nasri could play wide right in a 4-4-2.
If you had one of Cesc/Wilshere/Ramsey in the middle next to an Essien type, it would be encouraging, especially if Walcott or Clichy were tried wide left (I am thinking Gibbs coudl well be left back next season) rather than Arshavin, who just does not look as if he has the engine to run up and down the flank in a 4-4-2.

Parlour played right midfield, but he was not a traditional winger, he used to cut inside a lot and would play a few yards in from the touchline rather than hugging it.

Hi,
Are you describing a diamond midfield ? so more of a 4-6-0 ,inverted wingers. I think Gibbs should be the left midfielder since he was one that Arsene converted into a leftback.

[BournemouthRED]

Champ manager alert champ manager alert

[QuartzGooner]

Hi,
Are you describing a diamond midfield ? so more of a 4-6-0 ,inverted wingers. I think Gibbs should be the left midfielder since he was one that Arsene converted into a leftback.

No, not a diamond midfield.
A 4-4-2 where the two central midfielders both have good engines, though is more of a tackler, one more of a passer, but both have enough about them to handle the physical side of the game.

I am not saying we must switch to that, or any other system all the time, but keep it as an option for some games.

Gibbs might be decent as left midfield, but I think he is potentialy a better left back than Clichy, so would prefer him as left back.

[Arsenal 1991]

Hi,
Are you describing a diamond midfield ? so more of a 4-6-0 ,inverted wingers. I think Gibbs should be the left midfielder since he was one that Arsene converted into a leftback.

No, not a diamond midfield.
A 4-4-2 where the two central midfielders both have good engines, though is more of a tackler, one more of a passer, but both have enough about them to handle the physical side of the game.

I am not saying we must switch to that, or any other system all the time, but keep it as an option for some games.

Gibbs might be decent as left midfield, but I think he is potentialy a better left back than Clichy, so would prefer him as left back.

Like petit or gilberto and vieira. He had the blueprint but just seems to have forgotten it.

[USMartin]

The problem is that as many other players as we need there are two essential players we lack to make a 4-4-2 particularly as we used it from 1998-2005 and even to 2007 or so.

The first is the box-to-box ball-winner in the Vieira mold. In fact that might be the single most important player in such a formation as clearly United the first top team to feature a 4-5-1/4-3-3 formation clearly went to it because they could not compete physically in the midfield and longer with a 4-4-2 as Roy Keane by as early as 2002 was no longer the constant force Vieira was right up to his departure at Arsenal.

You need that all-powerful ball-winner to break up attacks and and start now attacks all day long for a 4-4-2 to work defensively on a regular basis as though you may have a quality defensive midfielder protecting the back four, the box-to-box midfielder will have to drop back often as if you have really attack minded-wing players whether traditional pure wide wingers or the mold of Pires/Ljungberg/Wiltord/Reyes and oven to an extent Marc Overmars you will be more vulnerible to counters against us - even now we worry in a 4-3-3/4-5-1 that the likes of Arshavin/Nasri/ even Walcott do not track back nearly enough when the other team attacks.

The other player who would be essential would be a Thierry Henry-type
because the key to our 4-4-2 was Henry's ability to to open spance in the box as he ran with the ball to the touchline allowing Pires and Ljungberg or Wiltord and Reyes to attack that open space left in Henry's wake and Henry easily cut the ball across or even beck to them for chances. Many of our goals were simply brilliant but also brilliantly simple goals.

I believe that if we had that Henry-type maybe Nasri and Arshavin could be as important to this side and Pires and Ljungberg were to theirs but with one reservation. They like to attack with the ball at their feet already far more than Pires and Ljungberg did. If they could adjust to making runs to and receiving the ball in position to finish already maybe....

But again we need that Henry-type to get them the ball. Walcott is more of an Owen-type when played through the middle and not a good decision-maker - at least compared to Henry. He could be effective in a 4-4-2 solely reliant on one main goalscorer but that was never an Arsene Wenger 4-4-2 even with Henry in full flow.

But a 4-4-2 may be possible this summer if as feared Cesc leaves as by all accounts the 4-4-2 was shelved to accomodate Cesc as Vieira could not be replaced adequately...

[augie]

Poitless thread. It will never change. Not for the next 4 years anyway.

and so are most threads on here to the extent that things will not change thats why this is a discussion forum where people put up ideas and topics to be discussed

Ignore the forum nazis, they are just a bit unhappy at the moment. It could change, we were playing 442 only a year ago.

Bullshit cos we were not playing 4-4-2 last season at all and it has been one of my bigger complaints for some time that this current wenger system is screwing us over What is the point........the senile fool hasnt a fcuking clue and that aint about to change

[Spiral]

Hi,
Are you describing a diamond midfield ? so more of a 4-6-0 ,inverted wingers. I think Gibbs should be the left midfielder since he was one that Arsene converted into a leftback.

No, not a diamond midfield.
A 4-4-2 where the two central midfielders both have good engines, though is more of a tackler, one more of a passer, but both have enough about them to handle the physical side of the game.

I am not saying we must switch to that, or any other system all the time, but keep it as an option for some games.

Gibbs might be decent as left midfield, but I think he is potentialy a better left back than Clichy, so would prefer him as left back.

Yes i see what you are getting at, but for 4-4-2 to work effectively arsenal will have to do a lot of pressing and i don't see the likes of arshavin working that hard.

[QuartzGooner]

for 4-4-2 to work effectively arsenal will have to do a lot of pressing and i don't see the likes of arshavin working that hard.

That is why I mention Arshavin as a number 10 where he can play in the hole, use speed of thought rather than speed of foot, and slip through balls to a striker to run onto.

That is also why most people on this thread mention the hope an "Essien" style tackling/pressing midfielder will be bought, regardless of formation we play.

Nasri, Wilshere, Ramsey as contenders for midfield roles...they can and do press.

Youngsters Frimpong and Coquelin, from what little I have seen of them in pre-season games, they also press.

[Arsenal 1991]

for 4-4-2 to work effectively arsenal will have to do a lot of pressing and i don't see the likes of arshavin working that hard.

That is why I mention Arshavin as a number 10 where he can play in the hole, use speed of thought rather than speed of foot, and slip through balls to a striker to run onto.

That is also why most people on this thread mention the hope an "Essien" style tackling/pressing midfielder will be bought, regardless of formation we play.

Nasri, Wilshere, Ramsey as contenders for midfield roles...they can and do press.

Youngsters Frimpong and Coquelin, from what little I have seen of them in pre-season games, they also press.

The only problem with that is we would be relying on him to work harder than he currently is. 442 is certainly the way to go, unless arsene gets players in who can tackle and are prepared to work hard and defend.

[Naki_Gooner]

Poitless thread. It will never change. Not for the next 4 years anyway.

This. The gic is too arrogant/stubborn.

[1989]

I don't even know what formation we play tbh. I see our players moving all over the place, there's no discipline to our game whatsoever. It's as if Turnip sends them out with no clear idea or tactic and just tells them to pass the ball about and hope the opposition make mistakes. Sadly for him that never works against good defences. I really think if other teams look at the way ManU snd Chelsea play us and implement the same tactics when we play them then we're fucked, as Turnip has absolutely no clue how to beat this tactic.

[Spiral]

for 4-4-2 to work effectively arsenal will have to do a lot of pressing and i don't see the likes of arshavin working that hard.

That is why I mention Arshavin as a number 10 where he can play in the hole, use speed of thought rather than speed of foot, and slip through balls to a striker to run onto.

That is also why most people on this thread mention the hope an "Essien" style tackling/pressing midfielder will be bought, regardless of formation we play.

Nasri, Wilshere, Ramsey as contenders for midfield roles...they can and do press.

Youngsters Frimpong and Coquelin, from what little I have seen of them in pre-season games, they also press.

The only problem with that is we would be relying on him to work harder than he currently is. 442 is certainly the way to go, unless arsene gets players in who can tackle and are prepared to work hard and defend.

I see what you mean, but their are a lot of articles on the web saying that 4-4-2 is dead, they said to look at the world cup and see how many teams deployed it, and what happen to England.
Although Arrigo Sacchi still believes in it. I think also for it to work Arsenal might have to play a lopsided midfield or diagonal, certainly they can't play this with players in a straight line.

[mrgnu1958]

Sod the formations..Lets just muller the feckers!!!!

[Percy Dalton]

Oooooh let's all get our Subbutteo pitches out and make up formations we know nothing about!