Anti-Semitism is creeping back (28/1)

[gooner.ed]

http://www.onlinegooner.com/editorial/index.php?id=95

usual thread starter… were you at the Lane and did you hear these chants? Be honest, how widespread were they? Maybe this is also an opportunity for those that use the ‘y’ word constantly when referring to Tottenham and/or their fans to stop using it. Offend Spurs supporters as part of football banter by all means, but just don’t bring race into it.

NB - PLEASE DO NOT GIVE ANY RACIST CHANTS/SONGS ANY FURTHER DIGNITY BY DETAILING THE CONTENT ON THIS FORUM.

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Actually, if the child's mother is Jewish then then by law the child is Jewish. That, however, is irrelevant. Anti-semitism against opposing supporters is repugnant, I would suggest that you grass up any fellow supporter by informing a steward, or if possible the police. If no action is taken, take a note of the seat number and inform the club.

I pretty much got fed up of attending football matches due to the imbeciles I was forced to sit with all around me. It seems to be a cultural problem, by and large 80% of working class British people are racist, ignorant and pretty thick. Unfortunately, football matches attract this type of clientele.

[bigtimegooner69]

Mate, you're replying in agreement to a post about bigotry and ignorance and you come out with a comment like that. "80% of all working class....racist and thick"

You probably don't see it but you're just as bad as the people this article takes issue with.

[NBN]

i would personally never sing those songs and don't agree with them either. However i dont get all precious about the content of chants that some people choose to sing, this is football and you have to expect to hear these things in a football ground. I also think you do not understand the mentality of a football supporter from some of the comments you have made. To say that the people who sing this stuff wish david dein was dead, think the holocaust is a good thing etc is absolutle rubbish. The one and only reason for people singing these songs is to rile up opposition supporters, not because they are in favour of the extermination of Jews, fact.

[Magic Hat]

NBN, I can not agree. You have to understand the Germans as well and the context it was in as my mother would say but that doesn't make what they did acceptable. Chanting about a horrible genocide is never ok. I don't care if Spurs call themselves the Y word, using genocide is a stick to beat people with, bringing up memories for those who have seen the footage, maybe for those who were there (small chance but a possible one) and making the ground unwelcome for people whose "crime" is to be of a certain religion is unacceptable. By singing about it, you are saying such things are acceptable. I should not expect to go to a ground with the fear of hearing such things like I shouldn't expect to be rearrested for being bi, society has to change and move on from what is wrong.

Football fans have brains, they can use them. Shouting racisit abuse isn't suddenly alright because they are football fans, neither should chanting about genocide or saying you want a set of people dead. What is their mentality? To get behind their team, yes, to insult the others yes but there are lines. Football fans should have reign to say things they normally wouldn't, football is a highlight of most people's weeks and something to take us away from our troubles but there is a line. Understanding that doesn't mean we have to accept it

[Red Gunner]

It is anti-Jewish not anti-Semitic, people seem to forget. I am a Semite and I don't find these songs offensive but a Jew would, therefore this matter is anti-Jewish. Public and media think that being anti-Semitic is being racist to Jews but it is not; it is being racist to Arabians and Jews at the same time. This means that Holocaust songs aren't anti-Semitic but are anti-Jewish.

Spurs fans call themselves, **** and **** Army. A Muslim, a Christian, a black, a white, an atheist can call himself a **** because he supports Tottenham. This means, the name has nothing to do with racial matter. Therefore calling a Spurs fan a **** is like calling an Arsenal fan Gooner. Normal.

I pretty much got fed up of attending football matches due to the imbeciles I was forced to sit with all around me. It seems to be a cultural problem, by and large 80% of working class British people are racist, ignorant and pretty thick. Unfortunately, football matches attract this type of clientele.

You seem to stick up for Jews so much but you are generalising the working class so much, that it can be called "social racism". Why don't you buy a season-ticket in the corporate area and sit with the middle-class boys who won't make a noise during the match? You should remember that football wouldn't exist without us, the working-class people.

[Magic Hat]

Please could you clarify the proper meaning of the word Semitic then? I would like to learn more

[Red Gunner]

Please could you clarify the proper meaning of the word Semitic then? I would like to learn more

All the "white" countries are the lands of the Semitic people.

[Woody]

I was with the travelling Gooners in the upper tier of the South Stand. Just for the record I didn't hear anything anti-semitic being sung.

Sure there may have been a few idiots shouting racist comments out of ear shot or in the lower tier section but not the people round me.

[vcc]

Actually, if the child's mother is Jewish then then by law the child is Jewish. That, however, is irrelevant. Anti-semitism against opposing supporters is repugnant, I would suggest that you grass up any fellow supporter by informing a steward, or if possible the police. If no action is taken, take a note of the seat number and inform the club.

I pretty much got fed up of attending football matches due to the imbeciles I was forced to sit with all around me. It seems to be a cultural problem, by and large 80% of working class British people are racist, ignorant and pretty thick. Unfortunately, football matches attract this type of clientele.

You obviously didn't get fed up enough son. Grassing a fellow supporter as you put it is repugnant to me and most normal people.

You and your ilk are killing football, you are not wanted and you are not needed.

[I Hate Hleb]

Please could you clarify the proper meaning of the word Semitic then? I would like to learn more

ACCORDING TO MY DICTIONARY:

SEMITE - A MEMBER OF A PEOPLE OF CAUCASIAN STOCK COMPRISING CHIEFLY JEWS AND ARABS, BUT IN ANCIENT TIMES ALSO INCLUDED BABYLONIANS, ASSYRIANS, PHOENICIANS AND OTHERS OF THE EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN AREA.

SEMITIC - 1). OF, PERTAINING TO, OR DESIGNATING A SUBFAMILY OF THE AFRO-ASIATIC FAMILY OF LANGUAGES INCLUDING ARABIC, HEBREW, ETHIOPIC, AKKADIAN AND ARAMAIC. 2). OF, PERTAINING TO OR DESIGNATING ANY OF THE PEOPLE WHO SPEAK A SEMITIC LANGUAGE; ESPECIALLY THE JEWISH PEOPLE.

[Cus Geezer]

by and large 80% of working class British people are racist, ignorant and pretty thick

Pal - My grandfather was a working class British person who was a frontline troop at Belsen and saw the whole aftermath and confirms that the far right are indeed well off the mark when they say the holocaust didn't happen. Were it not for him and his ilk you may no longer have a Jewish race in Europe to talk about.

Countering ignorance and bigotry by spouting ignorance and bigotry - just how thick are you.

P.S. Does this mean that there are absolutely no racist middle class people in Britain bonehead?

With regards to this question and Arsenal it is particularly worrying as Anti-Semitism isn't that prevailant in modern Britain - in right wing reactionary circles Israel even has some sympathy. At the England v Israel match in September I witnessed an Anti-Israel protest on Wembley Way barracked with wanker signs and chants of 'Israel! Israel' with obvious or little knowledge of the King David incident of 1948 which brought the country into existance.

Probably the worst extremes of anti-semitism in Britain comes from extremist Islam - and I think we can safely say that most of the people we hear chanting the holocaust stuff are hardly of that ilk.

This means that if this problem is resurging amongst Arsenal fans it is against the grain of current social trends and cannot have the explanation of 'society's problem not ours' and makes it all the more worrying for Arsenal and Arsenal fans.

[Magic Hat]

vcc, different standards. Some believe in not informing stewards of anything short of murder, some think that there are certain lines and if people cross them then they should inform the relavent authorities, I think most will agree that stewards are too harsh now. However I think reporting people for celebrating genocide/anti jewish chanting that ruins the enjoyment of others and is quite simply wrong doesn't ruin the game, the chants do.

IHH, you cheat Thanks both to you and red for enlightening me

[Cus Geezer]

Therefore calling a Spurs fan a **** is like calling an Arsenal fan Gooner. Normal.

Well no.

Except that Gooner isn't a racial term.

And doesn't provoke people to sing songs about 20th century genocide as terrace banter.

[Cus Geezer]

vcc, different standards. Some believe in not informing stewards of anything short of murder, some think that there are certain lines and if people cross them then they should inform the relavent authorities, I think most will agree that stewards are too harsh now. However I think reporting people for celebrating genocide/anti jewish chanting that ruins the enjoyment of others and is quite simply wrong doesn't ruin the game, the chants do.

IHH, you cheat Thanks both to you and red for enlightening me

I'd like to affirm this point and point out that were it not for geared up stewards on the ready for dickheads singing about genocide there would probably be more relaxed attitude from the stewards and an indifference to things like swearing.