I DON'T BUY IT...JUST LIKE ARSENE DOESN'T!
If you look at the positive impact that a signing or two could make, there is also the possibility of it going the other way and disrupting the harmony..ahem..in the squad. Only Wenger works with the players every day and has to assess this along with what he thinks we need. Whether we think that he has enough, enough quality, is another matter. I believe that he knows his first eleven and then the players to come in. The trouble with signing players now is that would he be signing people to come in as first team players or squad players? If the players that we consider to be of the right level were to come to the club, they would expect, like Diarra, to be first-team players. So something has to give way. I believe that we are weak now in that defensive midfield area where Gilberto cannot provide the workrate that Flamini does and Denilson is clearly not ready.
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Ok Gus I'll pick up the gauntlet
I don't consider myself to be over-optimistic, but I am under no doubt that Wenger wants to make us the biggest club in the world, to build a dynasty if you like, and obviously, not to mention obsessively, spends every single waking hour trying to achieve his objective and considering the apparent genius of the man, there seems to be little doubt IMO that he will succeed!
I feel no debate will be complete without broaching a subject which is a highly contentious issue on this board, the difference between fans and supporters, cos it's my belief that it is indeed very hard to criticise AW because of the sheer magnitude of what he has done for our club against overwhelming odds in Utd and the Chavs!
We have had some of the best players in the world at our club which is no easy feat in itself because IMO these sort of legends can only be created from within, not bought in, cos in my experience not many players who get to be the best in the world in their position hit the same heights if they subsequently move clubs!
Now I don't want to bleat on about AW's record as it suggests that there is people on here who don't know it, but has it really been appreciated??? cos along with all the cups and a couple of doubles for good measure Wenger was redirecting funds to a state of the art training ground and a brand new stadium helped of course by 10 consecutive yrs of CL money along with an entirely new generation of fans and families who pack the stadium for pre-season friendlies who are attracted by the football on show, not to mention the increased sponsorship that comes with it!
It just seems that as is prevalent everywhere else in todays game, everyone wants success yesterday, bein impatient or just plain unrealistic, call it what you will, in our case it's probably that we, like the Mancs have been spoilt and God forbid we end up like them, but it's plain to see that the pre-season frustration is still there due to the one fact that I will agree with, that we have not yet got an absolutely awesome squad like we had in '04!
Now this, and I must stress this is my opinion only, is when we must show some level of support because we should realise Wenger is neither goin to let the club stand still or slide backwards, we have already had massive success, but only intermittently, when what we really hanker after is a period of domination both domestically and in Europe and while I'm on this issue can I just reiterate that some of the flak that is directed toward the board is highly unwarranted not to mention ridiculous, and even when the accusers are proved wrong they come out with another pile of negative shite, that is again not support IMO!
There is also no doubt Le Boss is not perfect and has and will continue to make mistakes, in particular trying to conform by bringing English players to the club namely Jeffers and R. Wright which proved to be a waste of about £15M, but he learns very quickly and is now growing his own so that he gets the young English players to learn how to be more professional and shun the lifestyle typical of the current English prima donna, while the young foreign talent learn their trade in England which makes them more complete players due to the physical nature of our game!
It's now pretty evident that AFC is known for creating world class players, and young promising players from all over the world are now actively seeking to come to N. London so they can go on to ply their trade in any league in the world unless of course like the rest of us and many ex-players they fall totally in love with the club and go on to be legends in their own right!
Even our rejects are in high demand such is the clubs reputation for producing highly skilled footballing athletes and all this can only be good for the future of the club! Another thing to remember is that as a consequence of this Arsenal now have the lowest wages to turnover ratio in the country, which I know adds weight to the theory that the board are tightarses, but on a more crucial note say we do bring in someone who'll want about 80K a week, that's nearly double what Cesc is earnin, and look at the unrest that was caused at the Bridge when Sheva and Ballack came in on big dough!
So it just remains to say that the progress is there for all to see and I have no doubt that Wenger will spend when certain players become available who he thinks can improve the squad especially when we shake off the vast majority of the sizeable mortgage that is still hangin round our necks which some conveniently forget cos for every 10M we spend the actual cost is greater due to unpaid interest!

I don't consider myself to be over-optimistic, but I am under no doubt that Wenger wants to make us the biggest club in the world, to build a dynasty if you like, and obviously, not to mention obsessively, spends every single waking hour trying to achieve his objective and considering the apparent genius of the man, there seems to be little doubt IMO that he will succeed!
I feel no debate will be complete without broaching a subject which is a highly contentious issue on this board, the difference between fans and supporters, cos it's my belief that it is indeed very hard to criticise AW because of the sheer magnitude of what he has done for our club against overwhelming odds in Utd and the Chavs!
We have had some of the best players in the world at our club which is no easy feat in itself because IMO these sort of legends can only be created from within, not bought in, cos in my experience not many players who get to be the best in the world in their position hit the same heights if they subsequently move clubs!
Now I don't want to bleat on about AW's record as it suggests that there is people on here who don't know it, but has it really been appreciated??? cos along with all the cups and a couple of doubles for good measure Wenger was redirecting funds to a state of the art training ground and a brand new stadium helped of course by 10 consecutive yrs of CL money along with an entirely new generation of fans and families who pack the stadium for pre-season friendlies who are attracted by the football on show, not to mention the increased sponsorship that comes with it!
It just seems that as is prevalent everywhere else in todays game, everyone wants success yesterday, bein impatient or just plain unrealistic, call it what you will, in our case it's probably that we, like the Mancs have been spoilt and God forbid we end up like them, but it's plain to see that the pre-season frustration is still there due to the one fact that I will agree with, that we have not yet got an absolutely awesome squad like we had in '04!
Now this, and I must stress this is my opinion only, is when we must show some level of support because we should realise Wenger is neither goin to let the club stand still or slide backwards, we have already had massive success, but only intermittently, when what we really hanker after is a period of domination both domestically and in Europe and while I'm on this issue can I just reiterate that some of the flak that is directed toward the board is highly unwarranted not to mention ridiculous, and even when the accusers are proved wrong they come out with another pile of negative shite, that is again not support IMO!
There is also no doubt Le Boss is not perfect and has and will continue to make mistakes, in particular trying to conform by bringing English players to the club namely Jeffers and R. Wright which proved to be a waste of about £15M, but he learns very quickly and is now growing his own so that he gets the young English players to learn how to be more professional and shun the lifestyle typical of the current English prima donna, while the young foreign talent learn their trade in England which makes them more complete players due to the physical nature of our game!
It's now pretty evident that AFC is known for creating world class players, and young promising players from all over the world are now actively seeking to come to N. London so they can go on to ply their trade in any league in the world unless of course like the rest of us and many ex-players they fall totally in love with the club and go on to be legends in their own right!
Even our rejects are in high demand such is the clubs reputation for producing highly skilled footballing athletes and all this can only be good for the future of the club! Another thing to remember is that as a consequence of this Arsenal now have the lowest wages to turnover ratio in the country, which I know adds weight to the theory that the board are tightarses, but on a more crucial note say we do bring in someone who'll want about 80K a week, that's nearly double what Cesc is earnin, and look at the unrest that was caused at the Bridge when Sheva and Ballack came in on big dough!
So it just remains to say that the progress is there for all to see and I have no doubt that Wenger will spend when certain players become available who he thinks can improve the squad especially when we shake off the vast majority of the sizeable mortgage that is still hangin round our necks which some conveniently forget cos for every 10M we spend the actual cost is greater due to unpaid interest!
Last edited by Belfast Boy on Wed Feb 06, 2008 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Well written Belfast Boy and a lot I agree with!
However as much as we look forward to this dynasty of the future we cannot forget the here and now!
I am a firm believer that while we allow the current young talent to mature we have to supplement this with proven talent. We also have to have a squad that can support a genuine attempt at the title with the injury and suspension pitfalls along the way not to mention loss of form and tiredness.
Yes Arsene is building a legacy and yes we are all in awe of what he has done for the club but I like others believe that we have to move up to the next level now. To me that next level is winning the league consistently and not once every four years and also the Champions League.
I am not suggesting we should have broken the bank to try and buy the league ala Chelsea but I think it is reasonable to say that for modest sums in todays world we could have improved the squad!

However as much as we look forward to this dynasty of the future we cannot forget the here and now!
I am a firm believer that while we allow the current young talent to mature we have to supplement this with proven talent. We also have to have a squad that can support a genuine attempt at the title with the injury and suspension pitfalls along the way not to mention loss of form and tiredness.
Yes Arsene is building a legacy and yes we are all in awe of what he has done for the club but I like others believe that we have to move up to the next level now. To me that next level is winning the league consistently and not once every four years and also the Champions League.
I am not suggesting we should have broken the bank to try and buy the league ala Chelsea but I think it is reasonable to say that for modest sums in todays world we could have improved the squad!

I have to agree that Belfast Boy has made a few very valid points but like Gus said I believe wenger needs to invest more in the here and now if he is to take the club up to the top level of european club football. Believe it or not I do really appreciate what wenger has done(like I did for GG) but, as has been proved many many times in the history of the game, todays heros can be tomorrows fools. I would also take issue that we have some of the best players in the world at the moment - that is not meant as a knock to any player but a realistic diagnosis of our squad as it stands at the moment(I am not going down the potential star road cos none of us can predict with any great certainty there).
I know at times I live in the past but I look back to wenger teams in years gone by and this currect team suffers badly by comparison. The class of Bergkamp,PV4,Pires etc was there for all to see and teams really were afraid to play us. It was bringingtoure into a team like that that has made toure the player he is today as he learned so much from the experience and hunger of those around him. This team is lacking that experience to aid in the development of players like cesc,rvp,clichy etc who are still young and hopefully learning and if wenger dipped into the club coffers to sign just 2 or 3 quality experienced players I believe we can rule football for years to come but he will have to do that 1st imo
I know at times I live in the past but I look back to wenger teams in years gone by and this currect team suffers badly by comparison. The class of Bergkamp,PV4,Pires etc was there for all to see and teams really were afraid to play us. It was bringingtoure into a team like that that has made toure the player he is today as he learned so much from the experience and hunger of those around him. This team is lacking that experience to aid in the development of players like cesc,rvp,clichy etc who are still young and hopefully learning and if wenger dipped into the club coffers to sign just 2 or 3 quality experienced players I believe we can rule football for years to come but he will have to do that 1st imo
Just a couple of points. We had great teams that didn't come close to winning the Champions League. No-one questions those players who played in it year after year without getting within a mile of it.augie wrote:I have to agree that Belfast Boy has made a few very valid points but like Gus said I believe wenger needs to invest more in the here and now if he is to take the club up to the top level of european club football. Believe it or not I do really appreciate what wenger has done(like I did for GG) but, as has been proved many many times in the history of the game, todays heros can be tomorrows fools. I would also take issue that we have some of the best players in the world at the moment - that is not meant as a knock to any player but a realistic diagnosis of our squad as it stands at the moment(I am not going down the potential star road cos none of us can predict with any great certainty there).
I know at times I live in the past but I look back to wenger teams in years gone by and this currect team suffers badly by comparison. The class of Bergkamp,PV4,Pires etc was there for all to see and teams really were afraid to play us. It was bringingtoure into a team like that that has made toure the player he is today as he learned so much from the experience and hunger of those around him. This team is lacking that experience to aid in the development of players like cesc,rvp,clichy etc who are still young and hopefully learning and if wenger dipped into the club coffers to sign just 2 or 3 quality experienced players I believe we can rule football for years to come but he will have to do that 1st imo
And Cesc and RvP clearly didn't want an experienced Henry to learn from judging by their statements this season.
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Yes Gus, I'd be happier and probably like the rest of us a little less anxious if we had a bigger squad but it's a lot harder in practice than it appears, for instance in the January window I think it's pretty widely acknowledged that it's a seconds sale, and any decent players may well be cup tied!
But if and when you do acquire say international class players, then of course you inhibit the progression of the younger players who cannot get into the first team so bang goes the reputation you built for cultivating youth and if you get quality cover for the key positions you create the problem in how to keep them all happy!
Now I know there was a transfer kitty and we didn't spend it but I think the only place we are light is CB and of course we'd all like a winger, but I genuinely believe that AW wanted Ribery and altho it initially seemed as if he baulked at the 20M fee, it's now bein suggested that the deal fell thru possibly cos DD leavin fucked everything up!
But if and when you do acquire say international class players, then of course you inhibit the progression of the younger players who cannot get into the first team so bang goes the reputation you built for cultivating youth and if you get quality cover for the key positions you create the problem in how to keep them all happy!
Now I know there was a transfer kitty and we didn't spend it but I think the only place we are light is CB and of course we'd all like a winger, but I genuinely believe that AW wanted Ribery and altho it initially seemed as if he baulked at the 20M fee, it's now bein suggested that the deal fell thru possibly cos DD leavin fucked everything up!
BB do I take it that you believe that almunia is a good enough keeper for The Arsenal then ? Do you think he is the type of keeper that will intimidate opposition strikers when faced with a 1 on 1 scenario and do you believe that he can be the difference maker in those big games ? Like a lot of you I have concerns at cb and the wings (although given rvp's constant injurys striker worries me too
) but I think a top top keeper is our priority above all else. In every other position mentioned you can argue that we have a least 1 quality player that can play there but almunia is not top quality

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That's a given Augie, honestly I was only thinkin of outfield players for some reason
maybe cos Almunia has done very little wrong but a club like Arsenal should have and it's fans deserve a big and agile keeper a la Cech or Schmeichel or of course our very own Jens without the suspect temperment, because of the reasons you mentioned such as intimidating opposing players and inspiring confidence in your back four, but this is also a given such keepers ARE hard to find, and even harder to buy as Wenger found out when he came up against the Chavs in the race to sign Petr Cech 


I am not bringing up this thread again to beat the same old drum (honestly I'm not
) but wenger has come out today and said that he is worried that the amount of injuries will derail our trophies bid this season -now surely even those who backed his policy of no signings in jan will see this as a ridiculous statement to make just 9 days after passing up on the chance to bring in new players ? It sounds to me like getting in his excuses early and doesnt radiate confidence to the players ?




Yeah, sack the bastard....augie wrote:I am not bringing up this thread again to beat the same old drum (honestly I'm not) but wenger has come out today and said that he is worried that the amount of injuries will derail our trophies bid this season -now surely even those who backed his policy of no signings in jan will see this as a ridiculous statement to make just 9 days after passing up on the chance to bring in new players ? It sounds to me like getting in his excuses early and doesnt radiate confidence to the players ?
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Lets not be hasty 26/5/89
Anyway that was not the point I was making - all I was saying was that it was a bloody stupid comment to come out with 9 days after the transfer window closed
Now if you dont see the stupidity of the statement fair enough but this wasnt a why didnt he buy anyone/lets sack the man comment 



Anyway that was not the point I was making - all I was saying was that it was a bloody stupid comment to come out with 9 days after the transfer window closed



I know you didn't mean sack him, I was just taking the piss.augie wrote:Lets not be hasty 26/5/89![]()
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Anyway that was not the point I was making - all I was saying was that it was a bloody stupid comment to come out with 9 days after the transfer window closed![]()
Now if you dont see the stupidity of the statement fair enough but this wasnt a why didnt he buy anyone/lets sack the man comment

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It seems pretty obvious to me that AW has it set in his mind how he is going to build the team and he is not going to change in for anyone, probably because he reckons that the effects of doing it differently would be detrimental to the long term success he's planning for!
I know you're probably thinkin but just for the sake buyin a couple of players we could've had a some silverware this season but that's pretty simplistic as the debate continues over the wisdom of making signings in the Jan window due to the standard of player available and whether they would get time to make a difference in the run in as there's only a dozen or so games left especially considering the intricate passing game we practice!
I know you're probably thinkin but just for the sake buyin a couple of players we could've had a some silverware this season but that's pretty simplistic as the debate continues over the wisdom of making signings in the Jan window due to the standard of player available and whether they would get time to make a difference in the run in as there's only a dozen or so games left especially considering the intricate passing game we practice!
No no no no nooooo
I am not trying to moan (again
) at a lack of signings but rather the statement that wenger made in which he all but said that the squad is too light
January has come and gone and we aint signed anybody and I have moved on from that believe it or not but what baffles me is when le boss doesnt buy cos he doesnt think we need anyone then dont come out with a contradictory statement like that today because (a) it makes you look foolish & (b) it sends a message of lack of confidence in the players that are going to have to step up
Can you all please please get past the fact that we aint signed anybody alright ?





Can you all please please get past the fact that we aint signed anybody alright ?



