The way to get their attention

As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
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USMartin
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Post by USMartin »

frankbutcher wrote:Victory Through Harmony!

This is a group that will achieve its aims by doing things the right way, the Arsenal way. No mud-slinging, no in-fighting. We are united in our aims, and we will be united in our methods.

:barscarf:

VICTORY THROUGH HARMONY
I like the concept but every movement has people with differing aims or views on how best to achieve them so I think that ideal vision you promote may take some time to achieve yet

On another matter wouldn't the copyright hinge on whether it's Arsenal F.C. or Arsenal FC? They may have one copyrighted but that doesn't automatically mean both does it? I am not a lawyer but that sounds like a classic legal disticntion to be drawn, no

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frankbutcher
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Post by frankbutcher »

USMartin wrote:
frankbutcher wrote:Victory Through Harmony!

This is a group that will achieve its aims by doing things the right way, the Arsenal way. No mud-slinging, no in-fighting. We are united in our aims, and we will be united in our methods.

:barscarf:

VICTORY THROUGH HARMONY
I like the concept but every movement has people with differing aims or views on how best to achieve them so I think that ideal vision you promote may take some time to achieve yet

On another matter wouldn't the copyright hinge on whether it's Arsenal F.C. or Arsenal FC? They may have one copyrighted but that doesn't automatically mean both does it? I am not a lawyer but that sounds like a classic legal disticntion to be drawn, no
The movement will be a broad enough Church to cover a number of viewpoints. It is not a single issue movement.

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QuartzGooner
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Post by QuartzGooner »

frankbutcher wrote:
USMartin wrote:
frankbutcher wrote:Victory Through Harmony!

This is a group that will achieve its aims by doing things the right way, the Arsenal way. No mud-slinging, no in-fighting. We are united in our aims, and we will be united in our methods.

:barscarf:

VICTORY THROUGH HARMONY
I like the concept but every movement has people with differing aims or views on how best to achieve them so I think that ideal vision you promote may take some time to achieve yet

On another matter wouldn't the copyright hinge on whether it's Arsenal F.C. or Arsenal FC? They may have one copyrighted but that doesn't automatically mean both does it? I am not a lawyer but that sounds like a classic legal disticntion to be drawn, no
The movement will be a broad enough Church to cover a number of viewpoints. It is not a single issue movement.
The more issues you cover the less reason for having the campaign, there are AST, AISA, REDAction and Black Scarf Movement already in existence.

Avoid taking on the board. By all means assert the wish for concentrating on the football club, but focus on a groundswell of opinion to buy better players and not tolerate the Diabys and Denilsons.

If you start talking about shares and takeovers etc you have lost before you begin.
Usmanov wanted a share issue with money going to players. The board did not agree. He owns 29% of the club and he got nowhere!

This has to be by the fans for the fans, and not connected to wrangling with the powerful board members who will thwart anything against them.

Plus you know what? Most fans do not want to campaign about all that. It is boring, financial and dull.

USMartin, you already started your campaign against the board, carry on with your own campaign if you are so bothered by the board.


Make it achievable and stick to what we know. Football.


PLC = Public Limited Company.

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frankbutcher
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Post by frankbutcher »

QuartzGooner wrote:
frankbutcher wrote:
USMartin wrote:
frankbutcher wrote:Victory Through Harmony!

This is a group that will achieve its aims by doing things the right way, the Arsenal way. No mud-slinging, no in-fighting. We are united in our aims, and we will be united in our methods.

:barscarf:

VICTORY THROUGH HARMONY
I like the concept but every movement has people with differing aims or views on how best to achieve them so I think that ideal vision you promote may take some time to achieve yet

On another matter wouldn't the copyright hinge on whether it's Arsenal F.C. or Arsenal FC? They may have one copyrighted but that doesn't automatically mean both does it? I am not a lawyer but that sounds like a classic legal disticntion to be drawn, no
The movement will be a broad enough Church to cover a number of viewpoints. It is not a single issue movement.
The more issues you cover the less reason for having the campaign, there are AST, AISA, REDAction and Black Scarf Movement already in existence.

Avoid taking on the board. By all means assert the wish for concentrating on the football club, but focus on a groundswell of opinion to buy better players and not tolerate the Diabys and Denilsons.

If you start talking about shares and takeovers etc you have lost before you begin.
Usmanov wanted a share issue with money going to players. The board did not agree. He owns 29% of the club and he got nowhere!

This has to be by the fans for the fans, and not connected to wrangling with the powerful board members who will thwart anything against them.

Plus you know what? Most fans do not want to campaign about all that. It is boring, financial and dull.

USMartin, you already started your campaign against the board, carry on with your own campaign if you are so bothered by the board.


Make it achievable and stick to what we know. Football.


PLC = Public Limited Company.
I've not said we're having a go about the Board per se. Just having a go about lack of transfer spending implicates the Board in our protest anyway.

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USMartin
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Post by USMartin »

QuartzGooner wrote:The more issues you cover the less reason for having the campaign, there are AST, AISA, REDAction and Black Scarf Movement already in existence.

Avoid taking on the board. By all means assert the wish for concentrating on the football club, but focus on a groundswell of opinion to buy better players and not tolerate the Diabys and Denilsons.

If you start talking about shares and takeovers etc you have lost before you begin.
Usmanov wanted a share issue with money going to players. The board did not agree. He owns 29% of the club and he got nowhere!

This has to be by the fans for the fans, and not connected to wrangling with the powerful board members who will thwart anything against them.

Plus you know what? Most fans do not want to campaign about all that. It is boring, financial and dull.

USMartin, you already started your campaign against the board, carry on with your own campaign if you are so bothered by the board.


Make it achievable and stick to what we know. Football.


PLC = Public Limited Company.



I think any doubts I have had about your character and motives have all been put to rest Quartz.

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frankbutcher
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Post by frankbutcher »

USMartin wrote:
QuartzGooner wrote:The more issues you cover the less reason for having the campaign, there are AST, AISA, REDAction and Black Scarf Movement already in existence.

Avoid taking on the board. By all means assert the wish for concentrating on the football club, but focus on a groundswell of opinion to buy better players and not tolerate the Diabys and Denilsons.

If you start talking about shares and takeovers etc you have lost before you begin.
Usmanov wanted a share issue with money going to players. The board did not agree. He owns 29% of the club and he got nowhere!

This has to be by the fans for the fans, and not connected to wrangling with the powerful board members who will thwart anything against them.

Plus you know what? Most fans do not want to campaign about all that. It is boring, financial and dull.

USMartin, you already started your campaign against the board, carry on with your own campaign if you are so bothered by the board.


Make it achievable and stick to what we know. Football.


PLC = Public Limited Company.



I think any doubts I have had about your character and motives have all been put to rest Quartz.
RIGHT, I'M NOT A MOD, BUT PLEASE ALL REFRAIN FROM POSTING FURTHER TONIGHT. I DON'T WANT 20-ODD PAGES RUINED. LET'S START AGAIN TOMORROW.

:barscarf: :barscarf: :barscarf:

Its Up 4 Grabs Now
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Post by Its Up 4 Grabs Now »

kingjayson1 wrote:
Arsenal 1991 wrote:
topgoon wrote:
frankbutcher wrote:BTW - I think ArsenalFC not PLC, will get us into shit over Copyright.
Then we use the original none copyrighted logo and just write under it, The Arsenal, a football club not a plc. It becomes the logo for the group.

I'm no legal expert but we've contravened nothing that way have we...or have we :?
This one?
This is what they own;

http://www.ipo.gov.uk/t-find-adp?propnum=0635872001

Like I said I'll ring the IP office in the morning to see what the position is.
Doesn’t a trademark just mean you cant “tradeâ€

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Arsenal 1991
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Post by Arsenal 1991 »

USMartin wrote:
QuartzGooner wrote:The more issues you cover the less reason for having the campaign, there are AST, AISA, REDAction and Black Scarf Movement already in existence.

Avoid taking on the board. By all means assert the wish for concentrating on the football club, but focus on a groundswell of opinion to buy better players and not tolerate the Diabys and Denilsons.

If you start talking about shares and takeovers etc you have lost before you begin.
Usmanov wanted a share issue with money going to players. The board did not agree. He owns 29% of the club and he got nowhere!

This has to be by the fans for the fans, and not connected to wrangling with the powerful board members who will thwart anything against them.

Plus you know what? Most fans do not want to campaign about all that. It is boring, financial and dull.

USMartin, you already started your campaign against the board, carry on with your own campaign if you are so bothered by the board.


Make it achievable and stick to what we know. Football.


PLC = Public Limited Company.



I think any doubts I have had about your character and motives have all been put to rest Quartz.
Seriously Marty, fuck off. You carry on with your petition and let us actually get something done here.

Just get off this thread if you're going to cause trouble.

Goodnight everyone, I'll sleep on it and hopefully we'll bring some good thoughts to the table tomorrow. :barscarf:

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USMartin
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Post by USMartin »

frankbutcher wrote: I've not said we're having a go about the Board per se. Just having a go about lack of transfer spending implicates the Board in our protest anyway.
Agreed - the whole idea about my petition was to try and get better information without having a go at anyone and if the information received seemd legitimate and satisfactory that would have been that. I would say the same thing here altough now I think there will be some more healthy skepticism about whatever we do receive and more of a immedaite reaction if it is deemed not up to scratch.

If the Board genuinely enbraces and addresses our concerns and geuinely responds to them this can be resolved quite quickly and amicably I would expect. That would apply whehter its is their policies or the Manager's ultimately requiring correction.

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USMartin
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Post by USMartin »

Arsenal 1991 wrote:
USMartin wrote:
QuartzGooner wrote:The more issues you cover the less reason for having the campaign, there are AST, AISA, REDAction and Black Scarf Movement already in existence.

Avoid taking on the board. By all means assert the wish for concentrating on the football club, but focus on a groundswell of opinion to buy better players and not tolerate the Diabys and Denilsons.

If you start talking about shares and takeovers etc you have lost before you begin.
Usmanov wanted a share issue with money going to players. The board did not agree. He owns 29% of the club and he got nowhere!

This has to be by the fans for the fans, and not connected to wrangling with the powerful board members who will thwart anything against them.

Plus you know what? Most fans do not want to campaign about all that. It is boring, financial and dull.

USMartin, you already started your campaign against the board, carry on with your own campaign if you are so bothered by the board.


Make it achievable and stick to what we know. Football.


PLC = Public Limited Company.



I think any doubts I have had about your character and motives have all been put to rest Quartz.
Seriously Marty, fuck off. You carry on with your petition and let us actually get something done here.

Just get off this thread if you're going to cause trouble.

Goodnight everyone, I'll sleep on it and hopefully we'll bring some good thoughts to the table tomorrow. :barscarf:
I think you ought to read what I have said on here before going off half-cocked and compare to Quartz's comments and ask yourself who is really trying to achieve what you really want achieved. Go ahead I posted multiple times today better still here ais a version of a Preamble I tried

Our goal is simple – to give Arsenal Football Club the very best possible chance of competing for the chance to emulate or even exceed the success on the pitch it achieved from 1998-2005 and in other periods of success, and we believe that has not happened since 2006 and understanding there were legitimate financial concerns at times during that period that may have limited our ambitions then, do not understand why our ambitions remain limited now given the much improved financial health of the club the past several years..

We believe this help would allow the Club, the Board, and Manager, to show greater ambition in terms of the quality of players we choose to obtain moving forward as well as those already at the club we choose to retain, which would put us in a much stronger position to compete for and win silverware going forward. This is something we believe should be our ambition above all else as a top football club, especially one which historically has pursued this ambition, and has set policies that support that ambition whenever possible, and certainly did in the recent past.

There is a lack of clarity on our policies as relating to our ambitions and this has gone on some time now and has been to the club’s detriment and we worry that will continue as long as there is no serious review or clarification of the policies regarding our investment in the transfer market as well as our wage policy and structure and whether they may be hindering our ambitions now. We fear that regardless of who has set these polices or what their motives may be, that the current policies are insufficient for our great club at this time, or that our ambition itself is no longer sufficient and this must be clarified or corrected, and that this is the case regardless of who is setting these policies or why.

Our hope is the Club the Board and the Manager will take this in the spirit intended, which is one of continued love and support of, and concern for Arsenal Football Club and of those trusted to serve and protect its interests by all its many supporters in Highbury, Islington, London, and around the World, now and always.

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frankbutcher
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Post by frankbutcher »

USMartin wrote:
Arsenal 1991 wrote:
USMartin wrote:
QuartzGooner wrote:The more issues you cover the less reason for having the campaign, there are AST, AISA, REDAction and Black Scarf Movement already in existence.

Avoid taking on the board. By all means assert the wish for concentrating on the football club, but focus on a groundswell of opinion to buy better players and not tolerate the Diabys and Denilsons.

If you start talking about shares and takeovers etc you have lost before you begin.
Usmanov wanted a share issue with money going to players. The board did not agree. He owns 29% of the club and he got nowhere!

This has to be by the fans for the fans, and not connected to wrangling with the powerful board members who will thwart anything against them.

Plus you know what? Most fans do not want to campaign about all that. It is boring, financial and dull.

USMartin, you already started your campaign against the board, carry on with your own campaign if you are so bothered by the board.


Make it achievable and stick to what we know. Football.


PLC = Public Limited Company.



I think any doubts I have had about your character and motives have all been put to rest Quartz.
Seriously Marty, fuck off. You carry on with your petition and let us actually get something done here.

Just get off this thread if you're going to cause trouble.

Goodnight everyone, I'll sleep on it and hopefully we'll bring some good thoughts to the table tomorrow. :barscarf:
I think you ought to read what I have said on here before going off half-cocked and compare to Quartz's comments and ask yourself who is really trying to achieve what you really want achieved. Go ahead I posted multiple times today better still here ais a version of a Preamble I tried

Our goal is simple – to give Arsenal Football Club the very best possible chance of competing for the chance to emulate or even exceed the success on the pitch it achieved from 1998-2005 and in other periods of success, and we believe that has not happened since 2006 and understanding there were legitimate financial concerns at times during that period that may have limited our ambitions then, do not understand why our ambitions remain limited now given the much improved financial health of the club the past several years..

We believe this help would allow the Club, the Board, and Manager, to show greater ambition in terms of the quality of players we choose to obtain moving forward as well as those already at the club we choose to retain, which would put us in a much stronger position to compete for and win silverware going forward. This is something we believe should be our ambition above all else as a top football club, especially one which historically has pursued this ambition, and has set policies that support that ambition whenever possible, and certainly did in the recent past.

There is a lack of clarity on our policies as relating to our ambitions and this has gone on some time now and has been to the club’s detriment and we worry that will continue as long as there is no serious review or clarification of the policies regarding our investment in the transfer market as well as our wage policy and structure and whether they may be hindering our ambitions now. We fear that regardless of who has set these polices or what their motives may be, that the current policies are insufficient for our great club at this time, or that our ambition itself is no longer sufficient and this must be clarified or corrected, and that this is the case regardless of who is setting these policies or why.

Our hope is the Club the Board and the Manager will take this in the spirit intended, which is one of continued love and support of, and concern for Arsenal Football Club and of those trusted to serve and protect its interests by all its many supporters in Highbury, Islington, London, and around the World, now and always.
Good. Now time for..... :goingtobed:

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QuartzGooner
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Post by QuartzGooner »

The whole point is that we want some decent players brought in.

It only implicates the board if you believe they have prevented the boss from spending money.
No one can prove that, and by no means all fans believe that.
And if it is true then the board will not admit it!

This campaign is to let Wenger (and the media) know we are not happy.
To shake some sense into him that he cannot put out Denilson, Diaby and Rosicky and then complain we do not win.
To let him know he cannot continue to have a team that cannot defend a cross.
To encourage a decent spine in the team and players who can tackle.

It is a back to basics campaign focused on football.

Promotion tools including clips of people playing football, great goals, great tackles.
Not pie charts and intense financial essays.

If it is a case the board have put a limit on spending then if this campaign removes it all well and good.

But if you want to get involved in some campaign regarding the board's finances and shares and investments and statistics and maths then start your own campaign and it will bore the pants off people and it will fail.

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frankbutcher
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Post by frankbutcher »

QuartzGooner wrote:The whole point is that we want some decent players brought in.

It only implicates the board if you believe they have prevented the boss from spending money.
No one can prove that, and by no means all fans believe that.
And if it is true then the board will not admit it!

This campaign is to let Wenger (and the media) know we are not happy.
To shake some sense into him that he cannot put out Denilson, Diaby and Rosicky and then complain we do not win.
To let him know he cannot continue to have a team that cannot defend a cross.
To encourage a decent spine in the team and players who can tackle.

It is a back to basics campaign focused on football.

Promotion tools including clips of people playing football, great goals, great tackles.
Not pie charts and intense financial essays.

If it is a case the board have put a limit on spending then if this campaign removes it all well and good.

But if you want to get involved in some campaign regarding the board's finances and shares and investments and statistics and maths then start your own campaign and it will bore the pants off people and it will fail.
Who are you talking to?

I've already said that this isn't about the Board. It's about getting Arsenal back to winning ways. This means ruthless squad management and clear targets set on the pitch (Trophies need to be won).

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USMartin
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Post by USMartin »

frankbutcher wrote:
QuartzGooner wrote:The whole point is that we want some decent players brought in.

It only implicates the board if you believe they have prevented the boss from spending money.
No one can prove that, and by no means all fans believe that.
And if it is true then the board will not admit it!

This campaign is to let Wenger (and the media) know we are not happy.
To shake some sense into him that he cannot put out Denilson, Diaby and Rosicky and then complain we do not win.
To let him know he cannot continue to have a team that cannot defend a cross.
To encourage a decent spine in the team and players who can tackle.

It is a back to basics campaign focused on football.

Promotion tools including clips of people playing football, great goals, great tackles.
Not pie charts and intense financial essays.

If it is a case the board have put a limit on spending then if this campaign removes it all well and good.

But if you want to get involved in some campaign regarding the board's finances and shares and investments and statistics and maths then start your own campaign and it will bore the pants off people and it will fail.
Who are you talking to?

I've already said that this isn't about the Board. It's about getting Arsenal back to winning ways. This means ruthless squad management and clear targets set on the pitch (Trophies need to be won).


Think he was talking to me. Agreed those areour goals and hwo this campaign proceeds seems to me entirely dependent upon how it is received by the Club and the Board in the sense that they ultimately will have the decision over all matters..

Our goal here is to try and get the needed changes made by whoever needs to make them and how. That simply cannopt be achieved by ignoring the Board and its potential role in these policiesd.

But our goal is not to unfairly indict or vindicate anyone at this point.

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Sutch
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Post by Sutch »

Nevermind, question sorted

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