What's wrong @ Arsenal?

[SteveO 35]

I can understand why you say that, but I'm not sure I agree (if that makes sense !). I think most Gooners, myself included, would forgive Wenger the sins of the past few seasons, if he really did make a difference in the transfer window this Summer. Not reckless abandon, and we know it brings no guarantees, but if he signed a keeper, centre half and striker in the current window, I think he would buy himself more time and popularity. Its the constant sleepwalking from one year to another with no obvious sign of learning the lessons of the last one that is driving fans mad.

Football's a fickle game - two / three decent signings, a good start to next season and I think he could win people over. However, one centre half in / one out, no cover for Song, no additions at GK, and failing to add a striker with a bit of pace......and I fear that you are right. The club will forever be divided amongst the fan base.

See I cannot go along with this - far the past few summers we have seen far too many with this line of thought and it has considerably contributed to this malaise. How long should wenger be given to fix things in the summer ? Do you allow him to waste another transfer window before pulling the trigger this writing off another season cos any new manager would be left with wenger dodo's to work with

The club needs a clean break and they need it done on May 23rd 2011 - we simply cannot afford to risk another season of failure in a blind hope that wenger will correct things. Enough is enough and if he doesnt walk then he should be sacked end of story

Mate you've misunderstood it completely. I'm saying 'if' he did it....we all know that won't happen. It's theoretical. I'm saying that if he held his hands up and invested the £40m or so that's desperately needed and we still failed....I would be far more forgiving than WHEN we fail under the inevitable circumstances that you mention i.e. which WILL be the wasting of another transfer window. I am not advocating that he stays at all - he has had ample chance

[This Is The Daybreak]

I think a problem lies in the way the support is very much divided. There isn't a united front on what supporters want. There are those that want him out and a clean slate from May to make way for a manager with new ideas and a fresh outlook (we are not Arsene FC), there are fans who want to give him another chance to sort out our weakness in the summer. And there are those who believe he is the right man for the job and the problems lie within board room level not giving him money to spend and there are those who write the official programme and the official website who still think it's 2004 and subscribe to the myth of playing great football so what does it matter.

Hence why there isn't a clear aim. If you look at Hodgsons reign at Liverpool I would estimate approximately 80 percent of them wanted him to go so through fan pressure he went. If you look at the situation at Arsenal I would say it's very much equally divided.

So if for example a banner was brought along to an away game you would get a section of the supporters getting upset and angry over it.

[SteveO 35]

I think a problem lies in the way the support is very much divided. There isn't a united front on what supporters want. There are those that want him out and a clean slate from May to make way for a manager with new ideas and a fresh outlook (we are not Arsene FC), there are fans who want to give him another chance to sort out our weakness in the summer. And there are those who believe he is the right man for the job and the problems lie within board room level not giving him money to spend and there are those who write the official programme and the official website who still think it's 2004 and subscribe to the myth of playing great football so what does it matter.

Hence why there isn't a clear aim. If you look at Hodgsons reign at Liverpool I would estimate approximately 80 percent of them wanted him to go so through fan pressure he went. If you look at the situation at Arsenal I would say it's very much equally divided.

So if for example a banner was brought along to an away game you would get a section of the supporters getting upset and angry over it.

Absolutely 100% correct and it is mirrored by the board structure which is also a hybrid. Basically the whole club is in a state of limbo, from the ownership structure down to the fan base.

[Arsenal 1991]

As someone said yesterday:

#Arsenal board and ownership a rudderless ship, major holder gravely ill, 2nd major holder outside country and silent, and 3rd ostracised

[Glitch33]

He doesn't have to leave. He has made a massive difference to English football and his DNA is now embedded in all parts of the club.

He needs to come out of his denial stage and take some positive action.
Everyone can see it except him!

He needs to realise he is at the root of problem and make the necessary changes. He needs to listen to others. The board need to have a word.

If that doesn't happen now he will lose more and more fans.

The Arsene Knows Best flag behind the North Bank goal should be removed until things do change. He clearly does not know best.

[swords]

there is a malaise right through the club

Their is a hierarchy of mediocity and lack of ruthlessness in the squad

I never went along with the kids in the carling cup ,isn't this great..

The kids were played(this year excluded)but it was pressure off football.if they lost so what?Hows that to instill a ruthless winning mentality?

It hasn't built a new generation of talent,kerra gibert,seb larrsen,muwamba in 06,none of the team of 07 featured at wembley 4 years later

we have squad players who trundle along and either look down on playing with the fa cup,carling cup team or are not breaking their backs
to get in the first team either cos they are in a financial comfort zone

or wenger has instilled a hierarchy that won't be disturbed unless a talent like jack come along

diarra was right in his complaints in 08.he did bust a git to play well when he got his chance,but he was told he had to wait his turn .so what was the point in trying your best?

diaby (i want a ballon d.or,not a trophy witn arsenal!)denilson and others seem happy to play a few games and take the money

4th place is the achievement

arsenal looks good on the cv,so what if they don't play regularly,someone else will buy them.?

and our captain wanted out last year abd spends pre match in our biggest game,hugging the opposition!

we need change

[USMartin]

As someone said yesterday:

#Arsenal board and ownership a rudderless ship, major holder gravely ill, 2nd major holder outside country and silent, and 3rd ostracised

And don't forget a fourth major shareholder outside the Board as well. This is a mess and only when when they get the message that we see it is a mess on the pitch in the Manager's Office, in the Board Room, and from what I am reading and hearing in the stands increasingly is there any chance of change and that is the importance of arsenalfc,notplc

[USMartin]

I think a problem lies in the way the support is very much divided. There isn't a united front on what supporters want. There are those that want him out and a clean slate from May to make way for a manager with new ideas and a fresh outlook (we are not Arsene FC), there are fans who want to give him another chance to sort out our weakness in the summer. And there are those who believe he is the right man for the job and the problems lie within board room level not giving him money to spend and there are those who write the official programme and the official website who still think it's 2004 and subscribe to the myth of playing great football so what does it matter.

Hence why there isn't a clear aim. If you look at Hodgsons reign at Liverpool I would estimate approximately 80 percent of them wanted him to go so through fan pressure he went. If you look at the situation at Arsenal I would say it's very much equally divided.

So if for example a banner was brought along to an away game you would get a section of the supporters getting upset and angry over it.

Absolutely 100% correct and it is mirrored by the board structure which is also a hybrid. Basically the whole club is in a state of limbo, from the ownership structure down to the fan base.

Absolutely top posts - whatever the real problem is ultimately something is very wrong at Arsenal. But as big as the real problem is the problem that the club basically is pretending nothing is wrong and has been quite some time. Our goal has to be to force the issue that something is wrong and needs to be corrected now to the surface and hope that that alone gets the problems sorted out now, and if not we have to be prepared to push even harder and further from there.

We as supporters need to unite behind this one unified reality - that there are serious problems inside the club that must be addressed and corrected now, and the one unified vision of correcting them - the need to responsibly invest more money into the football team and playing staff at the senior level now.

[SteveO 35]

My feeling is that Arsenal FC not Plc should align itself with Dein and Usmanov. After all, the dossier that Red and White Holdings produced (I think conducted by Rothschild but check) seemed to highlight the very things that are supporter concerns right now i.e. that the core objectives of the football club were being neglected whilst the property development was ongoing.

[TeeCee]

If and when Wenger is replaced, if the next incumbent is someone like, say, Guardiola or Hiddink (who I often hear mentioned), I think you will see them do no better than the current manager or possibly not as well

That really made me laugh! Steve Maclaren could get this team to a 4th place finish! Well almost......

Wenger has to go, even if he went out and spent 100m this summer, why would you want to keep a manager who has ZERO knowledge of tactics, he'd go out and buy Tevez and play him on the right wing! Wenger has lost it, completely, and no amount of money spent can make up for the huge downside of keeping him on! We MUST get rid of the plank of wood in charge of our club.

[Bergkamp-Genius]

I certainly don't agree that Arsenal are a 'rudderless ship' quite the opposite, we are probably the best run club in the country...

We have a board that runs the club as a business, which to be honest is exactly what they should be doing, their job is to increase turnover and eke out as much profit from that turnover as possible, which they have done very well..
Where the problem lies is we have a manager who acts like he is a part of the board and is working and thinks with the same principles as those who are running the business..

What he should be doing is what most managers do and that is concentrating on making his team as strong as possible and fighting for the most funds he can to do that, there should be a constant tug of war going on between the board trying to eke out profits and the manager trying to secure the maximum funds possible to make his team as good as he can make it.
This tug of war is non existent at Arsenal...


Also, on the pitch, there is Wengers loss of ability to understand the necessities of what is required in a player and a team to be successful in this country,...

We have a group of players who are no more than show ponies who have been groomed in a culture of ego stroking and protection from the harsh realities of what it takes to win when it matters....

They are world beaters when they are allowed to play and everything goes their way but any hint of hardship or the unknown they are lost. But instead of learning from it or been helped to learn from it they are protected from their inability to adapt and learn with excuses, therefore there is no need for them to learn and adapt. Why should they when the man in charge doesn't and doesn't hold them to account for not..

Wenger really does think he can have 11 players on the pitch passing teams into oblivion with nothing more than the ability to pass and move. Character, fight, tactical awareness and the ability to adapt are all dirty words at Arsenal, such things are beneath our technically gifted heros and only to be used by the cheats that beat us....

[SteveO 35]

If and when Wenger is replaced, if the next incumbent is someone like, say, Guardiola or Hiddink (who I often hear mentioned), I think you will see them do no better than the current manager or possibly not as well

That really made me laugh! Steve Maclaren could get this team to a 4th place finish! Well almost......

Wenger has to go, even if he went out and spent 100m this summer, why would you want to keep a manager who has ZERO knowledge of tactics, he'd go out and buy Tevez and play him on the right wing! Wenger has lost it, completely, and no amount of money spent can make up for the huge downside of keeping him on! We MUST get rid of the plank of wood in charge of our club.

Remember he was asked that question a couple of years back i.e. what would you do if a rich owner gave you 100m to spend ?

And his answer was "I would give it back to him"

Good old Lord Wenger, High Commander of the Moral High Ground. That sustainable business model has got the fans salivating at the prospect. Chelsea can stick their new signings and trophies where the sun don't shine because we've got those two things they crave the most; some cracking property investments and a sustainable business model. And we should remind them too when they're singing about our lack of trophies. It'll make you feel great to sing back:

"Five years, and no profit"

and "Your apartments, your apartments, your apartments r fucking shit"

[USMartin]

My feeling is that Arsenal FC not Plc should align itself with Dein and Usmanov. After all, the dossier that Red and White Holdings produced (I think conducted by Rothschild but check) seemed to highlight the very things that are supporter concerns right now i.e. that the core objectives of the football club were being neglected whilst the property development was ongoing.

I don't think we sould go that far immediately, though I understand your reasoning behing that suggestion, and if I had to choose a side going forward would be inclined to most liikely choose that option as well right now.

But right now our goal has to be to represent the widest section of supporters possible and such a move would seriously undermine that goal. I think we need to press the Current Club leadership on these issues and addressing them and correcting.

If they refuse to do so or provide dubious justification for that, then it is something to consider down the road. But I think doing so now could prematurely cut out this movement at the knees.

[USMartin]

If and when Wenger is replaced, if the next incumbent is someone like, say, Guardiola or Hiddink (who I often hear mentioned), I think you will see them do no better than the current manager or possibly not as well

That really made me laugh! Steve Maclaren could get this team to a 4th place finish! Well almost......

Wenger has to go, even if he went out and spent 100m this summer, why would you want to keep a manager who has ZERO knowledge of tactics, he'd go out and buy Tevez and play him on the right wing! Wenger has lost it, completely, and no amount of money spent can make up for the huge downside of keeping him on! We MUST get rid of the plank of wood in charge of our club.

Remember he was asked that question a couple of years back i.e. what would you do if a rich owner gave you 100m to spend ?

And his answer was "I would give it back to him"

Good old Lord Wenger, High Commander of the Moral High Ground. That sustainable business model has got the fans salivating at the prospect. Chelsea can stick their new signings and trophies where the sun don't shine because we've got those two things they crave the most; some cracking property investments and a sustainable business model. And we should remind them too when they're singing about our lack of trophies. It'll make you feel great to sing back:

"Five years, and no profit"

and "Your apartments, your apartments, your apartments r fucking shit"

I think that infamous quote actually comes from an anecdote by Dan Fiszman and am not certain it was ever actually said by the manager, and that since then while the manager has never said to my knowledge that he did not say that, he has siad that if he had that sort of money he would in fact use it responsibly. I'll research this a bit but believe that is the case.

[USMartin]

I certainly don't agree that Arsenal are a 'rudderless ship' quite the opposite, we are probably the best run club in the country...

We have a board that runs the club as a business, which to be honest is exactly what they should be doing, their job is to increase turnover and eke out as much profit from that turnover as possible, which they have done very well..
Where the problem lies is we have a manager who acts like he is a part of the board and is working and thinks with the same principles as those who are running the business..

What he should be doing is what most managers do and that is concentrating on making his team as strong as possible and fighting for the most funds he can to do that, there should be a constant tug of war going on between the board trying to eke out profits and the manager trying to secure the maximum funds possible to make his team as good as he can make it.
This tug of war is non existent at Arsenal...

But that is fatally flawed logic.

If the football club should be run strictly like a business than Arsene Wenger is doing exactly what he should be doing, and basically what any board of directors would want its corporate employees to do run their departments efficiently and effectively with an eye on the bottom line.

Maybe the problem is we shouldn't be run strictly like a business. That is not to suggest we should spend irresponsibly or at every single opportunity, but that weneed to be willing to make a little less sometimes in silver to have a better chance to earn a little more in silverware.