Underachievement under Wenger

Arsenal 1991 · Post by **Arsenal 1991** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:52 pm

We've lost a stupid amount of finals since the 50s. It's a curse.

Were just redressing the balance from the early Wenger years.

Boomer · Post by **Boomer** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:58 pm

Glad this is on page 2 after Woot's avator!

woots82 · Post by **woots82** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:01 pm

You love it

Red Carpet · Post by **Red Carpet** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:06 pm

Ultimately teams are a reflection of their manager. Come this stage of the season Fergie doesn't talk about tiredness and his teams get stronger at this time of year than weaker. The current Utd team/squad is a poor imitation of his previous teams but the sum of its parts is greater than the individuals. Fergie continues to squeeze the absolute maximum out of that team and their hunger puts our bunch to shame. In their CL game at the Bridge the other week Giggs was bombing forward in an attempt to supplement the attack on a breakaway (they were already 1 up at this stage!) ... when do we see this from our team?!? .. actually SPRINTING!!.
And this is hunger from a player that has won more than our squad collectively ever will.

highburyJD · Post by **highburyJD** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:15 pm

amazing that in the vast majority of wenger's seasons we were in a position to win something going into the last months of the season

most of the 80's and 90's we weren't

he does philosophy not tactics, Pat Rice was a brilliant number 2
I hope whoever replaces him is a more tactical/psychologically adept figure

donaldo · Post by **donaldo** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:32 pm

highburyJD wrote:amazing that in the vast majority of wenger's seasons we were in a position to win something going into the last months of the season

most of the 80's and 90's we weren't

he does philosophy not tactics, Pat Rice was a brilliant number 2
I hope whoever replaces him is a more tactical/psychologically adept figure

No were were in a position to throw away trophies.In the prem we threw away the title in 99,03,08,2010 and this year

We threw away the fa cup in 01,the CC this season and the UEFA cup in 2000

Irish Gooner · Post by **Irish Gooner** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:57 pm

highburyJD wrote:
he does philosophy not tactics, Pat Rice was a brilliant number 2
I hope whoever replaces him is a more tactical/psychologically adept figure

All Pat Rices fault is it? Tactically all down to Rice? Despite the fact Turnip is manager and you have no idea what Rice does.

You really are a complete idiot

highburyJD · Post by **highburyJD** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:02 pm

donaldo wrote:
highburyJD wrote:amazing that in the vast majority of wenger's seasons we were in a position to win something going into the last months of the season

most of the 80's and 90's we weren't

he does philosophy not tactics, Pat Rice was a brilliant number 2
I hope whoever replaces him is a more tactical/psychologically adept figure
No were were in a position to throw away trophies.In the prem we threw away the title in 99,03,08,2010 and this year

We threw away the fa cup in 01,the CC this season and the UEFA cup in 2000

why do you preface a post in which you agree totally on the facts
with 'no'...?

USMartin · Post by **USMartin** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:05 pm

highburyJD wrote:amazing that in the vast majority of wenger's seasons we were in a position to win something going into the last months of the season

most of the 80's and 90's we weren't

he does philosophy not tactics, Pat Rice was a brilliant number 2
I hope whoever replaces him is a more tactical/psychologically adept figure

There's a valid point here.

Would we rather have a significnatly fewer real chances of winning trophies but actually win more of them even if that means periods of mid-table mediocirty and even the odd relegation fight.

I just sense people are sort of re-writing history to support their view now.

Would you be happier if istaed of winning The Premiership and Four FA Cups and Two Doubles we just won one Premiership and one FA Cup and no Doubles from 1998 to 2005 if we just won one more Premiership and one more FA Cup and no Doubles since 2006?

No real right or wrong answer here, but it does raise the question of how you could criticize the manager for lacking the ambition to win silverware when you'd be happier with far less success since 1998 as long as there was a little more since 2006.

I can't say that is wrong, but I can't say it's right either.

Nos89 · Post by **Nos89** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:25 pm

All the anger on the forum is because we have come close on so many occaisions. That is down to the manager, especially in the last 3 seasons as this squad of players had no right to finish in the top 6 let alone the top 4.

Graham was intending to leave before he got the boot, but remember in his last season we were actually in a relegation battle, with essentially the team that had previously won 3 cups in 2 seasons.

Wenger's mistake is that he believed too much in his average players. However, it's still quite remarkable that we haven't been anywhere near the bottom three, unlike Liverpool, Spuds, Villa, Everton, Man City. We have been living in a false football economy, believing, like Wenger, that we are better than we actually are. It hurts like hell that we are going to blow it again, but, maybe we shouldn't be in this position with this squad of players.

highburyJD · Post by **highburyJD** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:01 am

definitely shouldn't be challenging year in year out
when teams like sunderland and brum outspend us
let alone pool sperz + citeh
or the actual title challengers

Post by **flash gunner** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:06 am

highburyJD wrote:definitely shouldn't be challenging year in year out
when teams like sunderland and brum outspend us
let alone pool sperz + citeh
or the actual title challengers

What could we do if we spent some money? We could be walking the league this year for example maybe even got a European Cup or two under our belt too. Its so frustrating we are so near but so far!!!

highburyJD · Post by **highburyJD** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:10 am

agreed - it feels far worse to be close
but it obviously is better in management terms to be 2nd than way off

djhdjh · Post by **djhdjh** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:17 pm

USMartin wrote:
highburyJD wrote:amazing that in the vast majority of wenger's seasons we were in a position to win something going into the last months of the season

most of the 80's and 90's we weren't

he does philosophy not tactics, Pat Rice was a brilliant number 2
I hope whoever replaces him is a more tactical/psychologically adept figure
There's a valid point here.

Would we rather have a significnatly fewer real chances of winning trophies but actually win more of them even if that means periods of mid-table mediocirty and even the odd relegation fight.

I just sense people are sort of re-writing history to support their view now.

Would you be happier if istaed of winning The Premiership and Four FA Cups and Two Doubles we just won one Premiership and one FA Cup and no Doubles from 1998 to 2005 if we just won one more Premiership and one more FA Cup and no Doubles since 2006?

No real right or wrong answer here, but it does raise the question of how you could criticize the manager for lacking the ambition to win silverware when you'd be happier with far less success since 1998 as long as there was a little more since 2006.

I can't say that is wrong, but I can't say it's right either.

Martin - the argument doesn't follow at all. The original question you pose is would we rather have less near-misses and more non-challenges in exchange for more actual wins. This is a valid question.

You then pose another question which seems to be would we rather win less overall but spread it out more evenly. I guess a valid question but I suspect I know the majority of the answers.

However your ending suggests they're the same question. They're not. I would like to say that is just a mistake but I suspect you're too clever for that. And you've also assumed what answers people hold about the even spread of success. I should expect no less of you.

Peeman · Post by **Peeman** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:28 pm

According to The sun today - Fergie is getting rid of potentially 10 deadwood players in the summer

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sp ... r-out.html

What does our manager of the decade do with his deadwood - PAYRISE AND EXTENDED CONTRACTS