As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
I am not disagreeing that we seem to have become the new sp**s (celebrating our stylish football as if it is a trophy ) and I badly want a new manager to come in and light a fire under these wasters and instill some guts and fight into them but personally I would rather gives moyes a shot at it if that is the type of manager we are looking for. It is easy talk about moaninho being a winner but he managed the biggest club in portugal, the wealthiest club in england, the wealthiest club in italy and the wealthiest club in spain so these things should be factored into the equation as well. Could you or I manage these clubs with that amount of money at our disposal and be successful ?
I dont dispute that the man in driven by the need to be a winner and I accept that whether that need is for his own sake or for the clubs sake is neither here nor there but I just cannot deal with his arrogance and belief that he is bigger than any club The Arsenal was a successful club before wenger and will be after he is gone and personally I do not want to replace him with a guy with an ego that makes him feel more important that our club
augie wrote:I am not disagreeing that we seem to have become the new sp**s (celebrating our stylish football as if it is a trophy ) and I badly want a new manager to come in and light a fire under these wasters and instill some guts and fight into them but personally I would rather gives moyes a shot at it if that is the type of manager we are looking for. It is easy talk about moaninho being a winner but he managed the biggest club in portugal, the wealthiest club in england, the wealthiest club in italy and the wealthiest club in spain so these things should be factored into the equation as well. Could you or I manage these clubs with that amount of money at our disposal and be successful ?
I dont dispute that the man in driven by the need to be a winner and I accept that whether that need is for his own sake or for the clubs sake is neither here nor there but I just cannot deal with his arrogance and belief that he is bigger than any club The Arsenal was a successful club before wenger and will be after he is gone and personally I do not want to replace him with a guy with an ego that makes him feel more important that our club
Its my personal opinion but i think Moyes at Arsenal would be like Hodgson at Liverpool, totally out of his depth. This is one thing Mourinho wouldnt be. I think after the Wenger era has gone we need a real big time manager or a lesser manager would be eaten up by the ghost of Wenger
As for him managing big clubs etc i also agree but and its a big but he took Porto and made them European Champions (a feat Wenger hasnt done at one of Europes biggest clubs) not just champions within their country but Europe. We all know Portugese football is of a similar stature to Scottish football and in relative terms he didnt spend half as much as united, Barca, Real, Inter, AC Milan, Juventus, Arsenal even in that year yet he produced a team that could win it. This is what i want more than anything at Arsenal a team again that would fight and die for eachother Mourinho could do this. Also for year upon year Inter spent money on players trying to win the European Cup all to fail year upon year yet within 2-3 years of Mourinho being there thwey won it!!! Not just a fluke
Chelsea, despite spending tens of millions didn't become champions until Jose instilled his brand of management. Inter Milan, despite spending hundreds of millions and being Champions for a number of years, couldn't win a CL before Mourinho arrived. Real Madrid, despite spending hundreds of millions on players hadn't been to the 1/4 finals for a number of years before Mourinho did so at his first attempt this season. The evidence is all there.
Yes, he has benefited from having good players and plenty of funds at his disposal, but the previous managers also had those but couldn't bring the amount of success to those clubs that Jose did. People that think Mourinho has only been successful because of money show a lack of understanding of the impact Mourinho's knowledge, man management, motivational and tactical awareness and the desire to win have had on that success.
But greece won the european championships a few years back as well and nobody talks about the great manager otto whatshisname is - couldnt it have been just a one off fluke ? Could it be that moaninho moves on from club to club cos he knows that he is incapable of sustaining success at any club over a period of time
Greece's success was primarily put down to the German coach and his methods. A one off fluke? Just like you could say England's one in 1966 was, I suppose. What Mourinho has subsequently shown since leaving Porto is that it's been anything but a fluke when it comes to his success!!!
And by the way, Mourinho left Porto to prove himself in a better league; he didn't want to leave Chelsea but was sacked; he left Inter after completing the job required in 2 years (plus he hated the Italian press but that's a different subject). And he didn't just leave for anyone - Mourinho went to Real Madrid where he knew he would immediately be under-pressure to compete against the best team in football. Hardly smacks of someone taking the easy route to me.
Last edited by I Hate Hleb on Tue Apr 19, 2011 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
augie wrote:But greece won the european championships a few years back as well and nobody talks about the great manager otto whatshisname is - couldnt it have been just a one off fluke ? Could it be that moaninho moves on from club to club cos he knows that he is incapable of sustaining success at any club over a period of time
Maybe it was a one off for Greece but Mourinho definately isnt a one off he was won things with every club he has ever managed. The fact he doesnt stay anywhere long is due to his abrasive attitude more so than a long term fear that he wont continue winning i guess and as ive said i think this is his biggest problem but show me a manger that doesnt have a problem of some kind
I Hate Hleb wrote:Greece's success was primarily put down to the German coach and his methods. A one off fluke? Just like you could say England's one in 1966 was, I suppose. What Mourinho has subsequently shown since leaving Porto is that it's been anything but a fluke when it comes to his success!!!
I dunno, Hlebby. His success has been high impact, but short-lived, at every club. He gets in, spends silly money, plays a particular type of football, wins a couple trophies and moves on.
Methinks his real talent is like that of a corporate troubleshooter that comes in and changes things short-term to boost the company but cannot deliver sustained long-term success.
I Hate Hleb wrote:See the bit I added to my previous post for the answer to that.
Not saying he takes the easy route. His ego drives him to bigger and better clubs certainly. Just opining that he knows in his heart he cannot bring sustained success. Just a theory.
I Hate Hleb wrote:Greece's success was primarily put down to the German coach and his methods. A one off fluke? Just like you could say England's one in 1966 was, I suppose. What Mourinho has subsequently shown since leaving Porto is that it's been anything but a fluke when it comes to his success!!!
And by the way, Mourinho left Porto to prove himself in a better league; he didn't want to leave Chelsea but was sacked; he left Inter after completing the job required in 2 years (plus he hated the Italian press but that's a different subject). And he didn't just leave for anyone - Mourinho went to Real Madrid where he knew he would immediately be under-pressure to compete against the best team in football. Hardly smacks of someone taking the easy route to me.
But after he left porto every club he went to could outspend their rivals which has to have had an effect on his successes surely ? Even his domestic successes in portugal are tainted by the rumours of corruption with bribing referee's so basically, in my opinion, the moaninho story hinges on 1 european cup with porto which could have been a fluke or great management but he didnt wait around to prove one way or another
As for engerlands success in 1966.....you suggested that it was a fluke not me
But augie he left because he was wanted by all the clubs with money that were craving success. It was because of his methods and what he had achieved in winning the CL with Porto against superior clubs that he was much sought after. Roman certainly wouldn't have hired him on a whim when looking for someone to take over from Raineri. Jose obviously impressed him and sold him the dream. Like I also previous said, he didn't really want to leave Chelsea when he did, so we don't know if he'd had hung around or even still be there.
As for the England example: sometimes you have to go to extremes and get down & dirty to make the point!!
IMO Mourinho's biggest asset is his connexion with his players. I think he could even motivate Diaby and Denilson to run and track back for 90min!
Also you can see that any player that has played under Mou has a special connexion with him.
Augie, I see were you're going as I think that I too wouldn't want Mourinho to be our next manager. Too much hype around him, a big ego, and Arsene FC would become Mourinho FC. I just want Arsenal FC back...
However Augie, I'm almost certain that Mourinho is no fluke!
On a side note, I think I heard the other day, when Madrid got beaten at barrnabeu, that is was the first time since Mourinho manage Porto that his team got beaten at home? Anyone can confirm?
FrenchGun wrote:IMO Mourinho's biggest asset is his connexion with his players. I think he could even motivate Diaby and Denilson to run and track back for 90min!
Also you can see that any player that has played under Mou has a special connexion with him.
Augie, I see were you're going as I think that I too wouldn't want Mourinho to be our next manager. Too much hype around him, a big ego, and Arsene FC would become Mourinho FC. I just want Arsenal FC back...
However Augie, I'm almost certain that Mourinho is no fluke!
On a side note, I think I heard the other day, when Madrid got beaten at barrnabeu, that is was the first time since Mourinho manage Porto that his team got beaten at home? Anyone can confirm?
Yeah thats true. Real lost to Sporting Gijon and it was the first time a Mourinho team had lost a home game for 152 matches
FrenchGun wrote:IMO Mourinho's biggest asset is his connexion with his players. I think he could even motivate Diaby and Denilson to run and track back for 90min!
Also you can see that any player that has played under Mou has a special connexion with him.
Augie, I see were you're going as I think that I too wouldn't want Mourinho to be our next manager. Too much hype around him, a big ego, and Arsene FC would become Mourinho FC. I just want Arsenal FC back...
However Augie, I'm almost certain that Mourinho is no fluke!
On a side note, I think I heard the other day, when Madrid got beaten at barrnabeu, that is was the first time since Mourinho manage Porto that his team got beaten at home? Anyone can confirm?
Yeah thats true. Real lost to Sporting Gijon and it was the first time a Mourinho team had lost a home game for 152 matches
Wow...
Can you imagine the Emirates being a fortress like this? One can only dream...
) and I badly want a new manager to come in and light a fire under these wasters and instill some guts and fight into them but personally I would rather gives moyes a shot at it if that is the type of manager we are looking for. It is easy talk about moaninho being a winner but he managed the biggest club in portugal, the wealthiest club in england, the wealthiest club in italy and the wealthiest club in spain so these things should be factored into the equation as well. Could you or I manage these clubs with that amount of money at our disposal and be successful ?
