REAL V BARCA

[Henry Norris 1913]

how the fuck were madrid "heavy handed". they played a physical game but every time a barca player got near contact they collapsed and started covering their faces.
madrid had to play like that to have ANY chance of progressing . sadly an incorrect red card finished it, apart from messi's sheer brilliance.

[Bergkamp-Genius]

how the fuck were madrid "heavy handed". they played a physical game but every time a barca player got near contact they collapsed and started covering their faces.
madrid had to play like that to have ANY chance of progressing . sadly an incorrect red card finished it, apart from messi's sheer brilliance.

You are kidding aren't ya....first of all they were both as bad as each other for the play acting and the chasing the referee around trying to influence decisions...The difference was Barca tried to play and Madrid did anything they could legal and illegal to try and stop them and intimidate them...

''Madrid had to play like that to have any chance''...what the hell does that mean....look at the f*cking players they have, there squad is like a who's who of world football, to resort to the tactics they did is beyond ridiculous..it would be ridiculous if they were away from home, at home it is laughable given the quality of players the manager has at his disposable...If he can't take them on at home with the players he has then he wants sacking...

The red card didn't finish it...the attitude and the tactics the Madrid players were sent out there with finished it...they were never going to get through two games with 11 men playing with that kind of aggression and what can only be called nasty intent...

[LDB]

The thing that makes me laugh the most about those defending Madrids behaviour or tactics, whatever you want to call it...is they are probably the same people who throw a fit when the likes of Bolton, Stoke and Blackburn get a bit heavy handed with us... and our players are chasing the ref around waving cards and rolling around on the floor...and our manager is having a breakdown letting rip at the fourth official...

What makes it worse is what Madrid did last night was a far more organised and deliberate thuggery and killing of anything that resembled football than anything the three teams mentioned above could have mustered or would have wanted to.... and had Madrid done the same to us the outrage would have been unanimous and extreme...

Strachan was right commenting on the game...Mourinho will do anything to win...and by anything he really did mean anything.. After having quite a high opinion of him previously i now see him as no more than an egomaniac nutcase who is about as good for football as Hitler was for race relations ...

Equally i could say that many of the people who scoff at mourinho are the same types who tell us to shut up and learn to cope with the 'physical side of the game'.

Mourinho's football isnt pretty but the only reason everyone has been beating on his approach today is because it didnt get a result last night. He looks like a bit of a dozy *word censored* when it doesnt come off, which is why i think that brand of football isnt sustainable long term but you can guarantee if the result had been different this forum and the MSM would be flooded with people whipping their cocks out for arrogantio.

In the sole context of playing barcelona his tactics were spot on and worked brilliantly until one of his midfield lynchpins got sent off. For what its worth i didnt get the impression that there was particularly any more "thuggery" on either side than i wouldnt expect to see in such a match. Stifling the game - yes. Thuggery - not so sure.

[Number 5]

Did they also count the amount of red cards barcelona players should have recieved for their theatrics and diving? Ok, we'll take your word for it that all but one of the red cards Madrid received was warranted, but what about the red cards barcelona players should have received? Does it record the number of times Alves/Busquets/Pedro/Xavi/Iniesta/Villa/literally any of their other players, should have been sent of for their persistent simulation and play acting? Alves was on a yellow card last night, and goes down like he's had his leg amputated, rolling around on the ground in agony, trying to get Pepe sent off, only for him to come sprinting back on in what i actually counted was less that 4 minutes. His antics deserved a yellow card for what he was truly doing was conning the ref into thinking he was badly injured and trying to get Pepe punished worse that he would have been if Alves had just got up and carried on with it. So that should be a second yellow and a red to Alves.

What a waste of a paragraph. One question, was it a red card for Pepe? If you answer anything other than yes, you must not know shit about football.

Pedro should have recieved a yellow card for the same reason when he climbed over the back of a madrid player and for some reason ended up on the floor clutching his face He was clearly trying to con the ref into thinking the madrid player had struck him in the face. He also should have been shown a yellow card for raising his hands to Marcello in the second half, so right there are two bookable offences that have gone unpunished. Messi's push towards the end of the match should have also been a yellow card and so should his late tackle near the touchline on the far side. Again, they go unpunished.

Same Pedro that came of the pitch with a visable stud mark on his thigh after being stamped on by Marcelo? Dirty niggling fouls were going on all night in both directions. If we're thinking about the same Messi foul at the end I recall a freekick being awarded in Madrid's favour. Just cos the punishment don't fit your definition of what should be handed out don't mean it wasn't punished at the time.

Has there ever been a more expensive team assembled than this madrid team ? He has some of the finist players playing the game in the world right now and granted he is playing the worlds best team but does he need to employ such anti football tactics ?

Firstly, having an expensive team consisting of world class players does not automatically equal you having a great team. The galacticos of Ronaldo, Figo, R.Carlos, Zidane etc... went 3 seasons wihout winning anything and are notorious for their underachievement.

Here, right here, you are wrong. Probably not in your assessment of the Madrid team but certainly in your assessment of what Augie is saying. For a guy who I know only likes dealing with words as they are presented you've made a hell of a leap there.

Seems to me Augie is saying, shit he's got some ballers in the team so let them ball.

Fair statement.

So having some of the best players in the team does not necessarily make Real Madrid a great side that can all of a sudden overpower a Barcelona side that has been nurtured for years, with players who have played alongside each other for a decade and gelled and excelled together in the past 5 seasons.

And that is the fault of Barcelona? No I think not, they developed a footballing plan with a long term strategy. And stuck with it. Real, as always, want success now and will not accept even a year without it. So manager after mangager passes through the revolving door of the Madrid circus

This brings me onto the next issue that i have with your post. That somehow Mourinho's tactics were wrong, and he deserved the injustice because he dared to stifle Barcelona.

It seems as though you've forgotten that it was a CL Semi-Final and that away goals count a lot. So of course the team that plays at home in the first leg will be looking to go to the away tie without conceeding a goal. I would expect nothing less than an attempt to get a clean sheet and to then go to the second leg with the safety of your team getting an away goal and going through the tie. To expect Madrid to have done anything different to that is plain stupid. Why would Madrid attack in the first leg, leaving themselves open to conceeding 3 or 4 away goals, and effectively rule themselves out the tie, when the logical thing to do would be to keep barcelona's chances to a minimum and then travel to the Nou Camp where you know any goal that you score will be twice as effective and thus allow you to play a bit more attacking and put the pressure on the other team.

My first response is yeah they got what they fucking deserved for their tactics during the game.

But as it's you I'm willing to go a little deeper. Firstly I'm not in a wenger pureist way saying they should have gone all out. It's a me watching the game wanting to see some decent shit on the telly thing.

It seems as though you've forgotten that there were two teams in that CL semi-final. Both with equal right to employ whatever tactics they see fit. Barca as the away team had no real obligation other than their general footballing philosophy to seek out a goal. From what I saw they didn't really commit that many players forward. Messi, Villa, Pedro and Xavi. The rest stayed back in the main so Real couldn't counter effectively. By keeping possession, however ineffective, Barca were able to draw Real into commiting fouls increasing the chances of yellows and reds for the negative bastards. And this wouldn't include the niggly overzealous shit that would be encouraged whenever Messi got the ball.

All you have to do is think of it logically and see that up until the red card (again!) Barcelona looked clueless and that Madrid were very comfortable. How many clear cut chances did they have? Hardly any. There is a real possibility that last night could have ended up like when we played them at Arsenal. They dominated the ball for 80 minutes without really having that many chances, and once they started to tire we took advantage and punished them for it. It was shaping up to be exactly the same scenario last night and Madrid looked even more defensively comfortable than we did, and were preparing to bring on Kaka until the red card. So in reality, Madrid looked the more comfortable of the two sides and would have been more pleased about the result out of the two, up until yet another soft red card allows barcelona to ease their way back into the tie and take advantage of the extra man.

And here you must be high off your ass. When Barca played Arsenal they had many clear opportunities to score. That they scored just 1 had nothing to do with the game plan Wenger employed on the night.

0-0 in the champions league is a bad result. For the home side. Every day of the year. No way would Madrid be more pleased with a 0-0, as it was until the red.

There was nothing wrong with Mourinho's tactics and it was the expected thing for a team playing at home in the first leg of a semi-final against Barcelona.

Look, it was a shit game between two sides looking to cheat as much and as often as possible.

For every Barca dive there was a Real shirt pull. For every Barca cry to the ref, a sly foot left in on a Real tackle.

Both teams were equally reprehensible but ultimately one tried a little more than the other to do the right thing.

Do you think Ronaldo agreed with the Real tactics on the night? His attitude on the night suggested something very different to me. Shit for £80million you've got to give that mother fucker a chance to play the game.

[tinpot lane]

how the fuck were madrid "heavy handed". they played a physical game but every time a barca player got near contact they collapsed and started covering their faces.
madrid had to play like that to have ANY chance of progressing . sadly an incorrect red card finished it, apart from messi's sheer brilliance.

You are kidding aren't ya....first of all they were both as bad as each other for the play acting and the chasing the referee around trying to influence decisions...The difference was Barca tried to play and Madrid did anything they could legal and illegal to try and stop them and intimidate them...

''Madrid had to play like that to have any chance''...what the hell does that mean....look at the f*cking players they have, there squad is like a who's who of world football, to resort to the tactics they did is beyond ridiculous..it would be ridiculous if they were away from home, at home it is laughable given the quality of players the manager has at his disposable...If he can't take them on at home with the players he has then he wants sacking...

The red card didn't finish it...the attitude and the tactics the Madrid players were sent out there with finished it...they were never going to get through two games with 11 men playing with that kind of aggression and what can only be called nasty intent...

I like.

[MM99]

What a waste of a paragraph. One question, was it a red card for Pepe? If you answer anything other than yes, you must not know shit about football.

Are you fucking kidding me? The commentators said it wasn't a red. The papers say it wasn't a red. Neutrals i've spoken to about the game have said it wasn't a red. Loads of people on here straight away called it as nothing more than a yellow. Yet none of us know anything about football...
Me thinks you should stick to your NFL there and leave football to those of us that actually watch it religiously.

Same Pedro that came of the pitch with a visable stud mark on his thigh after being stamped on by Marcelo? Dirty niggling fouls were going on all night in both directions. If we're thinking about the same Messi foul at the end I recall a freekick being awarded in Madrid's favour. Just cos the punishment don't fit your definition of what should be handed out don't mean it wasn't punished at the time.

That's my whole point. Both teams deployed what is essentially cheating tactics, whether it is having a sly dig, or rolling around on the floor trying to get your opponent sent off. Both teams are as bad as each other, and yet Madrid, and other teams, are the ones that get their players sent off while Barcelona's chronic simulation goes unpunished.

Has there ever been a more expensive team assembled than this madrid team ? He has some of the finist players playing the game in the world right now and granted he is playing the worlds best team but does he need to employ such anti football tactics ?

Firstly, having an expensive team consisting of world class players does not automatically equal you having a great team. The galacticos of Ronaldo, Figo, R.Carlos, Zidane etc... went 3 seasons wihout winning anything and are notorious for their underachievement.

Here, right here, you are wrong. Probably not in your assessment of the Madrid team but certainly in your assessment of what Augie is saying. For a guy who I know only likes dealing with words as they are presented you've made a hell of a leap there.

Seems to me Augie is saying, shit he's got some ballers in the team so let them ball.

And what i'm saying is that even though he's got 'ballers' in the team this does not suddenly equate to them being a good side. Throw together 11 of the best players on earth and they would not necessarily equal a team capable of beating Barcelona. Teams need time to gel, some players might not fit in and then have to be replaced by a lesser known player etc...
So having 'ballers' in your team might not always mean that they 'can ball'.

0-0 in the champions league is a bad result. For the home side. Every day of the year. No way would Madrid be more pleased with a 0-0, as it was until the red.

Erm what? 0-0 at home in the first leg is a bad result? 1-1 sure as hell is a lot worse knowing that you have to travel to your opponents ground and outscore them whatever the result. Even 2-1 is worse knowing you've conceeded an away goal, so if the other team scores a couple, as barca will do at home, then you are under pressure to somehow try and then grab a couple of away goals yourself at the Nou Camp which is easier said than done. Are you sure you know how the away goals rule works?

Look, it was a shit game between two sides looking to cheat as much and as often as possible.
For every Barca dive there was a Real shirt pull. For every Barca cry to the ref, a sly foot left in on a Real tackle.
Do you think Ronaldo agreed with the Real tactics on the night? His attitude on the night suggested something very different to me. Shit for £80million you've got to give that mother fucker a chance to play the game.

Agreed with all of that expect this:

Both teams were equally reprehensible but ultimately one tried a little more than the other to do the right thing.

To me Barcas play acting and their fixation in trying to get opposition players sent off with their ridiculous diving is just as bad as Madrids. Just because they have more technique than madrid and can pass the ball better does noe mean 'they tried to do the right thing'. They cheat. On a big scale. Plain and simple. For me, no matter how well they play football i will never respect them as they employ a side that is just as dark as Madrids, and yet people seem to excuse this just because they completed 3 times as many passes as Madrids....

[Bergkamp-Genius]

The thing that makes me laugh the most about those defending Madrids behaviour or tactics, whatever you want to call it...is they are probably the same people who throw a fit when the likes of Bolton, Stoke and Blackburn get a bit heavy handed with us... and our players are chasing the ref around waving cards and rolling around on the floor...and our manager is having a breakdown letting rip at the fourth official...

What makes it worse is what Madrid did last night was a far more organised and deliberate thuggery and killing of anything that resembled football than anything the three teams mentioned above could have mustered or would have wanted to.... and had Madrid done the same to us the outrage would have been unanimous and extreme...

Strachan was right commenting on the game...Mourinho will do anything to win...and by anything he really did mean anything.. After having quite a high opinion of him previously i now see him as no more than an egomaniac nutcase who is about as good for football as Hitler was for race relations ...

Equally i could say that many of the people who scoff at mourinho are the same types who tell us to shut up and learn to cope with the 'physical side of the game'.

Mourinho's football isnt pretty but the only reason everyone has been beating on his approach today is because it didnt get a result last night. He looks like a bit of a dozy c**t when it doesnt come off, which is why i think that brand of football isnt sustainable long term but you can guarantee if the result had been different this forum and the MSM would be flooded with people whipping their cocks out for arrogantio.

In the sole context of playing barcelona his tactics were spot on and worked brilliantly until one of his midfield lynchpins got sent off. For what its worth i didnt get the impression that there was particularly any more "thuggery" on either side than i wouldnt expect to see in such a match. Stifling the game - yes. Thuggery - not so sure.

I'm all for physical football....but that wasn't what Madrid were doing...they were taking it that bit further, that bit further that takes it from being physical to cheating and at times dangerous cheating...i couldn't care less about him being negative and playing it tactically but he went way beyond that...

I also, as i said quite liked Mourinho and that was because he is just very thorough and i respect that, but last night he destroyed that game in his desperation to get a result, he took it too far he sent his players out to create the attitude, the mood that poisoned the game..he didn't just send his players out with the instruction to keep it tight and limit the space..

As i have said it would be bad enough if he didn't have the quality to do it differently, but he does and that reflects very badly on him as a coach that he would need to resort to such an extreme as killing the game...

I seem to remember you suggesting that Wenger's tactics were working against Barca...just because Barca hadn't scored the necessary yet, that doesn't mean your tactics are working and are going to work, especially when we could barely string two passes together or get out of our own half. In most peoples eyes that would signify being pissed all over by a far superior team, regardless of the score, if you want to kid yourself on that that was down to tactical genius, be my guest....

The same applies to last night, holding a team to nil nil on your own ground cos your too scared to actually try and win the game is not a successful tactic it's a failure in most peoples eyes, in the eyes of a team as big as Madrid it should be seen as a catastrophic failure not tactical genius. And the manner in which it was attempted should have the Madrid fans scratching there head as to why the f*ck they bought all those quality players to be served that shit...

[IW8Goalmachine]

Think he may just be the best ever.

No way in my opinion.

Maradona is the best ever he has done it on the world stage. and think what he would of done if he played in that Barca team now.

The level of competition is way better internationally than it ever was. Basing a player's merits on his international performance is ridiculous. Not to mention Maradona was the manager of the failed Argentina 2010 effort.

Messi is better than Maradona. He competes in a time with much more athleticism and quality of players against him.

Maradona has won a world cup single handed while messi shits his pants at international stage. Maradona has dragged shit teams to titles. messi has had quality player round him all the time, put him in a team with fuck all and see what he does.

whats ridiculous is basing a players credit with what he did as a manager

[safcftm]

it wasnt a red, barca were cheating bastards, madrid didnt really try to go forwards but their tactics might have worked but we will never know thanks to the ref. Oh, and mourinho is a fucking genius, he's at least twice the manager anyone in england is, except ferguson. Hope they pull it back, failing that i hope united fuck them in the final

[safcftm]

PS regardless of international class, what cant be denied is that Messi is much better than Maradona ever was. Maradona was amazing in his time, but nowadays with every player being an absolute athlete, maradona would struggle like fuck, and every sensible fan knows it. Which one was more influential to his side at the time? Theres a question worth debating, but messi is better, blatantly

[IW8Goalmachine]

PS regardless of international class, what cant be denied is that Messi is much better than Maradona ever was. Maradona was amazing in his time, but nowadays with every player being an absolute athlete, maradona would struggle like fuck, and every sensible fan knows it. Which one was more influential to his side at the time? Theres a question worth debating, but messi is better, blatantly

yes all players are better athletes now but does that not mean that Maradona would of been a better one also. you cannot be saying that he would struggle in modern football

[Number 5]

What a waste of a paragraph. One question, was it a red card for Pepe? If you answer anything other than yes, you must not know shit about football.

Are you fucking kidding me? The commentators said it wasn't a red. The papers say it wasn't a red. Neutrals i've spoken to about the game have said it wasn't a red. Loads of people on here straight away called it as nothing more than a yellow. Yet none of us know anything about football...
Me thinks you should stick to your NFL there and leave football to those of us that actually watch it religiously.

I tell you what I judge it on. If that had happened to me down at powerleague on a wednesday night I'd have got up and smacked the *word censored* in the face.

Same Pedro that came of the pitch with a visable stud mark on his thigh after being stamped on by Marcelo? Dirty niggling fouls were going on all night in both directions. If we're thinking about the same Messi foul at the end I recall a freekick being awarded in Madrid's favour. Just cos the punishment don't fit your definition of what should be handed out don't mean it wasn't punished at the time.

That's my whole point. Both teams deployed what is essentially cheating tactics, whether it is having a sly dig, or rolling around on the floor trying to get your opponent sent off. Both teams are as bad as each other, and yet Madrid, and other teams, are the ones that get their players sent off while Barcelona's chronic simulation goes unpunished.

Your whole point is based upon a footballing trait that has existed since I don't know when, ever? Can you think of a time when diving wasn't rife in the game? The next 50 years of your footballing life are going to be a hard ride if you haven't come to terms with that yet.

Has there ever been a more expensive team assembled than this madrid team ? He has some of the finist players playing the game in the world right now and granted he is playing the worlds best team but does he need to employ such anti football tactics ?

Firstly, having an expensive team consisting of world class players does not automatically equal you having a great team. The galacticos of Ronaldo, Figo, R.Carlos, Zidane etc... went 3 seasons wihout winning anything and are notorious for their underachievement.

Here, right here, you are wrong. Probably not in your assessment of the Madrid team but certainly in your assessment of what Augie is saying. For a guy who I know only likes dealing with words as they are presented you've made a hell of a leap there.

Seems to me Augie is saying, shit he's got some ballers in the team so let them ball.

And what i'm saying is that even though he's got 'ballers' in the team this does not suddenly equate to them being a good side. Throw together 11 of the best players on earth and they would not necessarily equal a team capable of beating Barcelona. Teams need time to gel, some players might not fit in and then have to be replaced by a lesser known player etc...
So having 'ballers' in your team might not always mean that they 'can ball'.

I don't know man. Players can always play I feel. Messi hit 51 goals for the season last night. I'm sure Ronaldo is on over 40. He's a baller, not much stopped him so far. In the instance of last night, you've got a huge number of highly talented footballers, let the fuckers play. Especiallly in the instance of Real Madrid, they might not get many more chances.

0-0 in the champions league is a bad result. For the home side. Every day of the year. No way would Madrid be more pleased with a 0-0, as it was until the red.

Erm what? 0-0 at home in the first leg is a bad result? 1-1 sure as hell is a lot worse knowing that you have to travel to your opponents ground and outscore them whatever the result. Even 2-1 is worse knowing you've conceeded an away goal, so if the other team scores a couple, as barca will do at home, then you are under pressure to somehow try and then grab a couple of away goals yourself at the Nou Camp which is easier said than done. Are you sure you know how the away goals rule works?

Didn't say it was the worst result. But between well matched teams? 0-0 is better for the away team in the first leg. Even in a leap year.

Look, it was a shit game between two sides looking to cheat as much and as often as possible.
For every Barca dive there was a Real shirt pull. For every Barca cry to the ref, a sly foot left in on a Real tackle.
Do you think Ronaldo agreed with the Real tactics on the night? His attitude on the night suggested something very different to me. Shit for £80million you've got to give that mother fucker a chance to play the game.

Agreed with all of that expect this:

Both teams were equally reprehensible but ultimately one tried a little more than the other to do the right thing.

To me Barcas play acting and their fixation in trying to get opposition players sent off with their ridiculous diving is just as bad as Madrids. Just because they have more technique than madrid and can pass the ball better does noe mean 'they tried to do the right thing'. They cheat. On a big scale. Plain and simple. For me, no matter how well they play football i will never respect them as they employ a side that is just as dark as Madrids, and yet people seem to excuse this just because they completed 3 times as many passes as Madrids....

No I hate them too. On last night alone I hate Madrid more purely because of their negative approach to the game and the shit that went down in the build up to the game. Until football becomes pay per view like boxing people need to shut their fucking mouths.

[1989]

PS regardless of international class, what cant be denied is that Messi is much better than Maradona ever was. Maradona was amazing in his time, but nowadays with every player being an absolute athlete, maradona would struggle like fuck, and every sensible fan knows it. Which one was more influential to his side at the time? Theres a question worth debating, but messi is better, blatantly

yes all players are better athletes now but does that not mean that Maradona would of been a better one also. you cannot be saying that he would struggle in modern football

Football has gotten harder since the Maradona days, defenders are now more aware, players are far more athletic and the pace is more relentless. It's physically way more demanding than before. People say Maradona won the World Cup single handedly but that's bollocks, as if he didn't have 10 other players in his team! PS That handball takes a bit away from his greatness imo. Not to mention the fact that he's a drugs cheat and his affinity for the white stuff is hardly the demeanor of a role model.

Messi's club career >>> Maradona's club career

Messi is only 23 as well, scary to think how good he may still become.

[LDB]

I'm all for physical football....but that wasn't what Madrid were doing...they were taking it that bit further, that bit further that takes it from being physical to cheating and at times dangerous cheating...i couldn't care less about him being negative and playing it tactically but he went way beyond that...

All i can say is that that wasnt the overriding impression i got from the game. The marcelo stamp aside.

I also, as i said quite liked Mourinho and that was because he is just very thorough and i respect that, but last night he destroyed that game in his desperation to get a result, he took it too far he sent his players out to create the attitude, the mood that poisoned the game..he didn't just send his players out with the instruction to keep it tight and limit the space..

Meh, the mood was the only thing that made the game vaguely entertaining. It was dire as a spectacle which is largely down to Real but its his/their perogative to approach the game however they wish.

As i have said it would be bad enough if he didn't have the quality to do it differently, but he does and that reflects very badly on him as a coach that he would need to resort to such an extreme as killing the game...

I can only imagine the 5-0 humiliation convinced him otherwise. Only Wenger allows his teams to be humiliated time after time trying the same tactic

I seem to remember you suggesting that Wenger's tactics were working against Barca...just because Barca hadn't scored the necessary yet, that doesn't mean your tactics are working and are going to work, especially when we could barely string two passes together or get out of our own half. In most peoples eyes that would signify being pissed all over by a far superior team, regardless of the score, if you want to kid yourself on that that was down to tactical genius, be my guest....

I dont think it was even our tactic to be honest with you, we just couldnt get anywhere near the ball. Barca's pressing was barely human in the first half. But, when i say the "tactics" were working what i mean is that we were working as well without the ball as I have ever seen us do in the second Wenger era. There is more then one way to play the game and barca have proven that they can be beaten if teams are patient, disciplined and dont get lured in early doors. Possession stats or shots on target can say whatever they like, Real looked comfortable before the sending off and we likewise looked to be on the up and ahead in the tie.

The same applies to last night, holding a team to nil nil on your own ground cos your too scared to actually try and win the game is not a successful tactic it's a failure in most peoples eyes, in the eyes of a team as big as Madrid it should be seen as a catastrophic failure not tactical genius. And the manner in which it was attempted should have the Madrid fans scratching there head as to why the f*ck they bought all those quality players to be served that shit...

This is pretty much covered by my other points

[safcftm]

PS regardless of international class, what cant be denied is that Messi is much better than Maradona ever was. Maradona was amazing in his time, but nowadays with every player being an absolute athlete, maradona would struggle like fuck, and every sensible fan knows it. Which one was more influential to his side at the time? Theres a question worth debating, but messi is better, blatantly

yes all players are better athletes now but does that not mean that Maradona would of been a better one also. you cannot be saying that he would struggle in modern football

He might have been if he had been brought up in modern times, he might not have been, he might have got hooked on the Xbox and become fuck all. You can only compare like with like, how good one was at his peak with how good another is at his. Maradona as he was was an amazing player, well ahead of his peers at the time, but he is also someone who now would struggle and who wouldnt score as many as messi imo. Having said that, he turned it on for his country which messi hasnt done. IMO messi is an athlete, and a class act, which puts him ahead of maradona, maradona would need to be fitter to keep pace with the top players nowadays and we dont know if he could manage it, hence messi is better since he is top of the game in a much more competitive environment