REAL V BARCA

[IW8Goalmachine]

PS regardless of international class, what cant be denied is that Messi is much better than Maradona ever was. Maradona was amazing in his time, but nowadays with every player being an absolute athlete, maradona would struggle like fuck, and every sensible fan knows it. Which one was more influential to his side at the time? Theres a question worth debating, but messi is better, blatantly

yes all players are better athletes now but does that not mean that Maradona would of been a better one also. you cannot be saying that he would struggle in modern football

He might have been if he had been brought up in modern times, he might not have been, he might have got hooked on the Xbox and become fuck all. You can only compare like with like, how good one was at his peak with how good another is at his. Maradona as he was was an amazing player, well ahead of his peers at the time, but he is also someone who now would struggle and who wouldnt score as many as messi imo. Having said that, he turned it on for his country which messi hasnt done. IMO messi is an athlete, and a class act, which puts him ahead of maradona, maradona would need to be fitter to keep pace with the top players nowadays and we dont know if he could manage it, hence messi is better since he is top of the game in a much more competitive environment

we are going to have to agree to disagree as I'm heading to bed after a long day

[MM99]

I tell you what I judge it on. If that had happened to me down at powerleague on a wednesday night I'd have got up and smacked the c**t in the face.

Fair enough, that is your opinion and what you would do in the situation. But for every person that saw it as a red, there are twice as many, if not more, that saw it as very harsh and no more than a booking. So you are wrong in assuming that just because in your opinion it warranted a red card that that was the correct decision.

Your whole point is based upon a footballing trait that has existed since I don't know when, ever? Can you think of a time when diving wasn't rife in the game? The next 50 years of your footballing life are going to be a hard ride if you haven't come to terms with that yet.

That is not what i'm saying here brah. Diving is a part of the game, i get that. But Barcelona take it to a whole new level and they go unpunished for it. That is my gripe. People call Madrid out for their dirty tactics, well what about Barca's? Just because diving is accepted as part and parcel of the game, it does not give Barcelona carte blanche to continue. They should be appropriately punished for it in the same way that Madrid get punished with their physical approach.

I don't know man. Players can always play I feel. Messi hit 51 goals for the season last night. I'm sure Ronaldo is on over 40. He's a baller, not much stopped him so far. In the instance of last night, you've got a huge number of highly talented footballers, let the fuckers play. Especiallly in the instance of Real Madrid, they might not get many more chances.

What if they can't play though? Yes, individually they are great players but as a team? Not as great as they could be. And certainly not as great a team as barcelona are. This Madrid side, albeit full of stars, has more or less been put together this season. So to expect them to be able to turn over a barca side that has grown and developed together over a decade is extrememly naive. If Mourinho simply did 'let the fuckers play' then the scoreline would have been 5-0 rather than 2-0. What's the point then?

[safcftm]

PS regardless of international class, what cant be denied is that Messi is much better than Maradona ever was. Maradona was amazing in his time, but nowadays with every player being an absolute athlete, maradona would struggle like fuck, and every sensible fan knows it. Which one was more influential to his side at the time? Theres a question worth debating, but messi is better, blatantly

yes all players are better athletes now but does that not mean that Maradona would of been a better one also. you cannot be saying that he would struggle in modern football

He might have been if he had been brought up in modern times, he might not have been, he might have got hooked on the Xbox and become fuck all. You can only compare like with like, how good one was at his peak with how good another is at his. Maradona as he was was an amazing player, well ahead of his peers at the time, but he is also someone who now would struggle and who wouldnt score as many as messi imo. Having said that, he turned it on for his country which messi hasnt done. IMO messi is an athlete, and a class act, which puts him ahead of maradona, maradona would need to be fitter to keep pace with the top players nowadays and we dont know if he could manage it, hence messi is better since he is top of the game in a much more competitive environment

we are going to have to agree to disagree as I'm heading to bed after a long day

Fair play mate. I will always say though that if we are comparing players we have to compare one with all his strengths and weaknesses against another with all his, we cant make adjustments- if we give maradona extra fitness, then whats to say another player of maradonas era might not have coped even better with the new game and become better than him? It just cant be done. Maradona was mint, and has achieved more than Messi- in the game Maradona played, Maradona would have been more successful (Messi would have been kicked out of matches for fun), in the modern game, Messi would be better (Maradona wouldnt have the fitness). Which one is better overall? Depends if we are talking modern football or the football of Maradonas time, if we are talking the modern game, Messi is obviously more suited to it, he needs to win a world cup before he can hope to be considered the best ever though imo

[Bergkamp-Genius]

PS regardless of international class, what cant be denied is that Messi is much better than Maradona ever was. Maradona was amazing in his time, but nowadays with every player being an absolute athlete, maradona would struggle like fuck, and every sensible fan knows it. Which one was more influential to his side at the time? Theres a question worth debating, but messi is better, blatantly

Messi is a superb player but Maradonna had stuff in his locker that Messi hasn't got....
As far as running with the ball, taking players on and the vision and skill to link up while doing all that at speed and of course finishing, they are both as good as anything there has ever been. I may even give Messi the edge in that department..
But Maradonna's range and quality of passing was far better than Messi's as was his range of shooting and his abiltiy from deadball situations, in my opinion that makes him a better all round player...

As for the not being as good in another era argument...it's a non argument really because you could never prove it either way... but i think most people would agree when people have that much natural talent they would have adapted to be the best in what ever era they grew up in/played in...

[safcftm]

PS regardless of international class, what cant be denied is that Messi is much better than Maradona ever was. Maradona was amazing in his time, but nowadays with every player being an absolute athlete, maradona would struggle like fuck, and every sensible fan knows it. Which one was more influential to his side at the time? Theres a question worth debating, but messi is better, blatantly

Messi is a superb player but Maradonna had stuff in his locker that Messi hasn't got....
As far as running with the ball, taking players on and the vision and skill to link up while doing all that at speed and of course finishing, they are both as good as anything there has ever been. I may even give Messi the edge in that department..
But Maradonna's range and quality of passing was far better than Messi's as was his range of shooting and his abiltiy from deadball situations, in my opinion that makes him a better all round player...

As for the not being as good in another era argument...it's a non argument really because you could never prove it either way... but i think most people would agree when people have that much natural talent they would have adapted to be the best in what ever era they grew up in/played in...

good post mate- to be fair, i pretty much agree

[Number 5]

I tell you what I judge it on. If that had happened to me down at powerleague on a wednesday night I'd have got up and smacked the c**t in the face.

Fair enough, that is your opinion and what you would do in the situation. But for every person that saw it as a red, there are twice as many, if not more, that saw it as very harsh and no more than a booking. So you are wrong in assuming that just because in your opinion it warranted a red card that that was the correct decision.

Not at all. The only man whose decision counts, the referee also saw it that way. It ends there.

I'd say Marcelo should have been red carded for his stamp but he wasn't. I haven't pressed on that point as it's too late and nothing can be done.

Your whole point is based upon a footballing trait that has existed since I don't know when, ever? Can you think of a time when diving wasn't rife in the game? The next 50 years of your footballing life are going to be a hard ride if you haven't come to terms with that yet.

That is not what i'm saying here brah. Diving is a part of the game, i get that. But Barcelona take it to a whole new level and they go unpunished for it. That is my gripe. People call Madrid out for their dirty tactics, well what about Barca's? Just because diving is accepted as part and parcel of the game, it does not give Barcelona carte blanche to continue. They should be appropriately punished for it in the same way that Madrid get punished with their physical approach.

The difficulty with that is a foul is a foul no matter how many times a player rolls over or how many players surround the referee. I agree the non fouls and dives need to be punished but that's never happened since I've been watching football so feel you are asking a lot. Consider Barca have 70% of possession against almost any team and there will be a higher ratio of tackles/opportunity to dive innit?

I don't know man. Players can always play I feel. Messi hit 51 goals for the season last night. I'm sure Ronaldo is on over 40. He's a baller, not much stopped him so far. In the instance of last night, you've got a huge number of highly talented footballers, let the fuckers play. Especiallly in the instance of Real Madrid, they might not get many more chances.

What if they can't play though? Yes, individually they are great players but as a team? Not as great as they could be. And certainly not as great a team as barcelona are. This Madrid side, albeit full of stars, has more or less been put together this season. So to expect them to be able to turn over a barca side that has grown and developed together over a decade is extrememly naive. If Mourinho simply did 'let the fuckers play' then the scoreline would have been 5-0 rather than 2-0. What's the point then?

I don't think that is neccessarily true. Madrid won't give the team the chance to make that leap. When they are out of the CL next week and Mourinho is sacked when they don't win the league at the end of the season, a new manager comes in with new ideas and fresh signings. The cycle continues and they never get there.

If Arsenal on our budget and philosophy can take on Barca two years in a row at home and come away with a win and draw, suggesting Madrid with all their millions to invest would have lost 5-0 by adapting a positive approach at home is out there too.

[Bergkamp-Genius]

PS regardless of international class, what cant be denied is that Messi is much better than Maradona ever was. Maradona was amazing in his time, but nowadays with every player being an absolute athlete, maradona would struggle like fuck, and every sensible fan knows it. Which one was more influential to his side at the time? Theres a question worth debating, but messi is better, blatantly

Messi is a superb player but Maradonna had stuff in his locker that Messi hasn't got....
As far as running with the ball, taking players on and the vision and skill to link up while doing all that at speed and of course finishing, they are both as good as anything there has ever been. I may even give Messi the edge in that department..
But Maradonna's range and quality of passing was far better than Messi's as was his range of shooting and his abiltiy from deadball situations, in my opinion that makes him a better all round player...

As for the not being as good in another era argument...it's a non argument really because you could never prove it either way... but i think most people would agree when people have that much natural talent they would have adapted to be the best in what ever era they grew up in/played in...

good post mate- to be fair, i pretty much agree

What's the matter with you....

Your supposed to disagree and then get abusive and call me a c*nt, then i reply and call you a W*nker and then we throw insults back and forward for a while.
Then you complain to the mods that i'm singling you out for abuse and then we carry on a simmering feud for a while infecting every thread...

Get with the mood of the forum......c*nt.....

[safcftm]

PS regardless of international class, what cant be denied is that Messi is much better than Maradona ever was. Maradona was amazing in his time, but nowadays with every player being an absolute athlete, maradona would struggle like fuck, and every sensible fan knows it. Which one was more influential to his side at the time? Theres a question worth debating, but messi is better, blatantly

Messi is a superb player but Maradonna had stuff in his locker that Messi hasn't got....
As far as running with the ball, taking players on and the vision and skill to link up while doing all that at speed and of course finishing, they are both as good as anything there has ever been. I may even give Messi the edge in that department..
But Maradonna's range and quality of passing was far better than Messi's as was his range of shooting and his abiltiy from deadball situations, in my opinion that makes him a better all round player...

As for the not being as good in another era argument...it's a non argument really because you could never prove it either way... but i think most people would agree when people have that much natural talent they would have adapted to be the best in what ever era they grew up in/played in...

good post mate- to be fair, i pretty much agree

What's the matter with you....

Your supposed to disagree and then get abusive and call me a c*nt, then i reply and call you a W*nker and then we throw insults back and forward for a while.
Then you complain to the mods that i'm singling you out for abuse and then we carry on a simmering feud for a while infecting every thread...

Get with the mood of the forum......c*nt.....

nah, if people have a good counter opinion i'm happy enough to admit it, it just means that eventually when i really stick to my guns people will think "shit, he must actually really think he's right"

[storrmin571]

Quite like Mourinho basically calling Barca cheats. Even have to agree with Greedy with what he says about them going down to the ground so easily.

[Henry Norris 1913]

it wasnt a red, barca were cheating bastards, madrid didnt really try to go forwards but their tactics might have worked but we will never know thanks to the ref. Oh, and mourinho is a fucking genius, he's at least twice the manager anyone in england is, except ferguson. Hope they pull it back, failing that i hope united fuck them in the final

spot on. anyone that thinks pepe's red card was the correct call is a

[IW8Goalmachine]

PS regardless of international class, what cant be denied is that Messi is much better than Maradona ever was. Maradona was amazing in his time, but nowadays with every player being an absolute athlete, maradona would struggle like fuck, and every sensible fan knows it. Which one was more influential to his side at the time? Theres a question worth debating, but messi is better, blatantly

Messi is a superb player but Maradonna had stuff in his locker that Messi hasn't got....
As far as running with the ball, taking players on and the vision and skill to link up while doing all that at speed and of course finishing, they are both as good as anything there has ever been. I may even give Messi the edge in that department..
But Maradonna's range and quality of passing was far better than Messi's as was his range of shooting and his abiltiy from deadball situations, in my opinion that makes him a better all round player...

As for the not being as good in another era argument...it's a non argument really because you could never prove it either way... but i think most people would agree when people have that much natural talent they would have adapted to be the best in what ever era they grew up in/played in...

good post mate- to be fair, i pretty much agree

great post pretty much what i was trying to say in my own shitty way

[marcengels]

it wasnt a red, barca were cheating bastards, madrid didnt really try to go forwards but their tactics might have worked but we will never know thanks to the ref. Oh, and mourinho is a fucking genius, he's at least twice the manager anyone in england is, except ferguson. Hope they pull it back, failing that i hope united fuck them in the final

spot on. anyone that thinks pepe's red card was the correct call is a

Barca being big baby cheats, and Madrid stepping over the line into elbows, stamps and forearm smashes are not mutually exclusive.

They both disgraced themselves, and they are both like two sides of a family having a long running feud, which has now come to a head at several family celebrations.

[I Hate Hleb]

PS regardless of international class, what cant be denied is that Messi is much better than Maradona ever was. Maradona was amazing in his time, but nowadays with every player being an absolute athlete, maradona would struggle like fuck, and every sensible fan knows it. Which one was more influential to his side at the time? Theres a question worth debating, but messi is better, blatantly

Messi is a superb player but Maradonna had stuff in his locker that Messi hasn't got....
As far as running with the ball, taking players on and the vision and skill to link up while doing all that at speed and of course finishing, they are both as good as anything there has ever been. I may even give Messi the edge in that department..
But Maradonna's range and quality of passing was far better than Messi's as was his range of shooting and his abiltiy from deadball situations, in my opinion that makes him a better all round player...

As for the not being as good in another era argument...it's a non argument really because you could never prove it either way... but i think most people would agree when people have that much natural talent they would have adapted to be the best in what ever era they grew up in/played in...

good post mate- to be fair, i pretty much agree

great post pretty much what i was trying to say in my own shitty way

Ah come on!!! You telling us you couldn't manage to say that? I mean, it's not as if 'good post mate - to be fair, I pretty much agree' is all that difficult.

[IW8Goalmachine]

PS regardless of international class, what cant be denied is that Messi is much better than Maradona ever was. Maradona was amazing in his time, but nowadays with every player being an absolute athlete, maradona would struggle like fuck, and every sensible fan knows it. Which one was more influential to his side at the time? Theres a question worth debating, but messi is better, blatantly

Messi is a superb player but Maradonna had stuff in his locker that Messi hasn't got....
As far as running with the ball, taking players on and the vision and skill to link up while doing all that at speed and of course finishing, they are both as good as anything there has ever been. I may even give Messi the edge in that department..
But Maradonna's range and quality of passing was far better than Messi's as was his range of shooting and his abiltiy from deadball situations, in my opinion that makes him a better all round player...

As for the not being as good in another era argument...it's a non argument really because you could never prove it either way... but i think most people would agree when people have that much natural talent they would have adapted to be the best in what ever era they grew up in/played in...

good post mate- to be fair, i pretty much agree

great post pretty much what i was trying to say in my own shitty way

Ah come on!!! You telling us you couldn't manage to say that? I mean, it's not as if 'good post mate - to be fair, I pretty much agree' is all that difficult.

It was before my bowl of weetabix

[I Hate Hleb]

Ah, that would explain it then. Man can't function without breakfast!!