As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
Eboue-Why? wrote:I was just praying that the away boys would summon up the courage to sing 'WHAT A LOAD OF RUBBISH'. I actually think it needs something as drastic as that i.e. the ever faithful away supporters to tell the 'professor' that the bullshit he continually feeds us has past its sell by date. It really really saddens me that after everything he has done, every time the camera turns to Wenger during a game...I just don't want to look at him.
As has been said, if pretty triangles in the middle of the pitch which threatens nobody is Wenger's definition of domination, then I'd rather see the long ball game now. At least that actually creates chances.
Something has got to happen at this club and quickly.
I would love home or away we sing a song for Jack FFS
Sing for the lazy russian for making a tackle or doing something - if we done the same for Jack we'd be singing all game long.
I know what you are trying to say SteveO, but you can't look at any of this in a vacuum.
I mean do you seriously think there is a manager out there who can just turn this team as constructed now into world-beaters? I know Nasri and Cesc weren't outh there (and may never be again I'm afraid) but out of the players who featured today - how many would even be in the 2004 squad let alone make its substitutes bench (making the first eleven isn;'t even worth considering). I mean do you think there is a manager who can turn Djourou into Sol Campbell in 04, or Song into Patrick Vieira (or even Gilberto Silva), or Bendtner into Denis Bergkamp, or Koscielny iinto Martin Keown or Kieran Gobbs(or even Gael Clichy) into Ashley Cole?
No any managerial change alone will not be enough, and my fear is that the people charged with making funds available to the manager will read pushhing the manager out as sufficienmt action on their part to appease the supporters, and we will at best suffer through more of the same just with a different spokesman trying to explain it. And that is the better-case scenario.
The thing is it would be in keeping with their - actually our - recent history for the club to try and get away with doing just that and with our own behavior as supporters the past several years to let them for a season or two.
USMartin wrote:I know what you are trying to say SteveO, but you can't look at any of this in a vacuum.
I mean do you seriously think there is a manager out there who can just turn this team as constructed now into world-beaters? I know Nasri and Cesc weren't outh there (and may never be again I'm afraid) but out of the players who featured today - how many would even be in the 2004 squad let alone make its substitutes bench (making the first eleven isn;'t even worth considering). I mean do you think there is a manager who can turn Djourou into Sol Campbell in 04, or Song into Patrick Vieira (or even Gilberto Silva), or Bendtner into Denis Bergkamp, or Koscielny iinto Martin Keown or Kieran Gobbs(or even Gael Clichy) into Ashley Cole?
No any managerial change alone will not be enough, and my fear is that the people charged with making funds available to the manager will read pushhing the manager out as sufficienmt action on their part to appease the supporters, and we will at best suffer through more of the same just with a different spokesman trying to explain it. And that is the better-case scenario.
The thing is it would be in keeping with their - actually our - recent history for the club to try and get away with doing just that and with our own behavior as supporters the past several years to let them for a season or two.
Martin, nothing on the board today pls particularly not in this thread. A manager is paid to make the sum of the parts add up. Martin Allen probably thinks that he'd have done a better job with more money and a supportive board too, but he was able to get seven points in three games from a Barnet side that had previously been dropping like a stone and shipping goals by the truckload. And it saved them from dropping out of the football league.
Please lay off the subject today mate. As I said, I know they are *word censored*. You have to start realising that the present manager is also making some elementary mistakes. I've probably said this before but if you haven't already then read the first few chapters of Kenny Sansom's book from the 1987 season. GG left no stone unturned when it came it the art of defending; it is inexcuseable that in an age where Wenger has a coaching staff that trumps anything GG had that we can not set ourselves up properly to defend set plays.
selsdon wrote:I'd take the current squad with the addition of a proper manager over three world class signings in the summer with Wenger still in charge.
The losing pampered culture he's created at the club is so far entrenched now the only escape from it is his departure.
Don't agree at all, its very easy to blame Wenger (and in certain cases he is to blame), but there have been far too many times when the players have been at fault and it wouldn't matter who the manager is in the dugout, the outcome would have been the same. I agree we are too soft under Wenger at times, but there's a few players who want to have a look at themselves this season.
Erm, obvious question springs to mind, see if u can guess what it is?
selsdon wrote:I'd take the current squad with the addition of a proper manager over three world class signings in the summer with Wenger still in charge.
The losing pampered culture he's created at the club is so far entrenched now the only escape from it is his departure.
Don't agree at all, its very easy to blame Wenger (and in certain cases he is to blame), but there have been far too many times when the players have been at fault and it wouldn't matter who the manager is in the dugout, the outcome would have been the same. I agree we are too soft under Wenger at times, but there's a few players who want to have a look at themselves this season.
Erm, obvious question springs to mind, see if u can guess what it is?
Hmmm, let me provide a further clue:
CLUE: They didn't award themselves 5 year deals on massively improved terms...
Stoke City v Arsenal: choose your Man of the Match
Wojciech Szczesny 4%
Bacary Sagna 2%
Laurent Koscielny 4%
Johan Djourou 2%
Kieran Gibbs 1%
Andrey Arshavin 5%
Jack Wilshere 12%
Alex Song 2%
Aaron Ramsey 4%
Theo Walcott 1%
Robin van Persie 49%
Tomas Rosicky 3%
Marouane Chamakh 7%
Nicklas Bendtner 3%
Sometimes when someone has a shocker - I get on and vote for the *word censored* who has had the shocker ie Almunia etc as a protest vote.
There was no real stand out shocker today - so I didn't do a protest vote I just done Jack.
Surely there are alot of protest votes goin on above or else people are plain crazy and deluded like our manager of the decade
Of course I wanted us to win and I had the familiar sick feeling when went went behind but today was a fitting way to completely end our title hopes. It sums up our season (last six seasons?).
No fight, can't defend, don't like shooting, but we had a lot of the ball.
AW really does look forlorn and clueless and the players look like they'd like to be anywhere else. There's been no sign of us addressing the weaknesses. He's got to go.
selsdon wrote:I'd take the current squad with the addition of a proper manager over three world class signings in the summer with Wenger still in charge.
The losing pampered culture he's created at the club is so far entrenched now the only escape from it is his departure.
Don't agree at all, its very easy to blame Wenger (and in certain cases he is to blame), but there have been far too many times when the players have been at fault and it wouldn't matter who the manager is in the dugout, the outcome would have been the same. I agree we are too soft under Wenger at times, but there's a few players who want to have a look at themselves this season.
Erm, obvious question springs to mind, see if u can guess what it is?
Its not as simple as that though, and we both know it. Yes, we all like to think we need better players in our team, but the ones we do have are decent andthey haven't been playing with 100% concentration and awareness, and that's their fault, not Wengers.
True, but at what point - and after how many seasons - does it become the managers fault for not addressing it? because, lets be honest, the lack of concentration and awareness is something we've been complaining about for years now, and it's showing no sign of being addressed!
selsdon wrote:I'd take the current squad with the addition of a proper manager over three world class signings in the summer with Wenger still in charge.
The losing pampered culture he's created at the club is so far entrenched now the only escape from it is his departure.
Don't agree at all, its very easy to blame Wenger (and in certain cases he is to blame), but there have been far too many times when the players have been at fault and it wouldn't matter who the manager is in the dugout, the outcome would have been the same. I agree we are too soft under Wenger at times, but there's a few players who want to have a look at themselves this season.
Erm, obvious question springs to mind, see if u can guess what it is?
Its not as simple as that though, and we both know it. Yes, we all like to think we need better players in our team, but the ones we do have are decent and they haven't been playing with 100% concentration and awareness, and that's their fault, not Wengers.
Why should the players have to look at themselves - thats the managers job. Its up to him to motivate them and give them tactics. He doesn't mind accepting the plaudits when we are winning with a "young" side playing the "best" football in England.
So when the milk turns sour i'm afraid he may drink it
Last edited by Peeman on Sun May 08, 2011 4:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Exactly.........three new quality signings with this manager will still have the same lack of tactical nous, the same lack of motivation, the same lack of commitment and passion and the same tippy tappy shite that will forever be a hallmark of this team
As a man who has campaigned for squad investment for the last few seasons I have to admit that I would rather sign nobody this summer and get shot of wenger than buy 2 or 3 quality players and keep wenger in charge
Demun210 wrote:
Its not as simple as that though, and we both know it. Yes, we all like to think we need better players in our team, but the ones we do have are decent and they haven't been playing with 100% concentration and awareness, and that's their fault, not Wengers.
There is a difference between a lapse of concentration and not knowing what to do. The fact is our current defence isnt good enough to win trophies. And clearly the defensive coaching isnt up to par either. The fact is they've got worse as the season has gone on, what does that say.
SteveO I just think you have to be careful on this. Like I say it would typical of this bunch to try and get away to quelling the masses by spending nothing but appointing a new man and like us to let them. And that would in all likelihood lead to even further decline and disappointmnet and no one wants that.
I'm not sure how to read the defensive issues, because even from 2002-2005 with a defence built entirely by Arsene Wenger we clearly did not have these same issues to the same extent. I mean in 2002 we gave up 36 goals and 2004 we gave up 26 goals, but maybe more telling from 2002 to 2005 we never once dropped points after taking a two-goal lead and only actually surrendered a two-goal lead once(and later won that match). We've done more than half a dozen times the last three years, even losing a couple of them.
I think it was Stuart Robson l;last week during the United match who said the problem with young players is they don't ancticipate any danger at al -, or don't anticipate it early enough I might say. Look at stoke's first two goals particularly, look at Bolton's winner, all down to players unable to seriously approach their jobs - including Szczesny on the deflected goal ( he wasn't even wrong-footed, just never expected to be troubled like that).
I think that too many inexperienced and yes young defenders too often the past few years simply cannot anticipate the danger around them because they are young and inexperienced and not that smart on their own yet in a footballing sense.
That lack of anticpation shows all over the pitch - how many times has Nik Bendtner not reacted to a ball falling to him right in front of goal because he assumed it wasn't going to him or wouldn't reach him? How many tap-ins has he passed up because he simply wasn't ready to deal with them?
But really where the inability to anticipate danger (or in attack opportunity)really bites you is in defence of corse. And I'm not sure you can just coach that anticipation into players straight away.Look at Gibbs on their first goal. Jumps even at all and at least puts off Jones if he doesn't get it, and if he makes a real jump ball nver gets near Jones. He ducked instead if anything, and I don't think he was coached to do that on the training ground. I think he was so worried about simply doing his single task he was incapable of anticpating the run being made right in behind him and doing anything about it.
Can he make players smarter on the training ground, because that is a big problem - a lot of players are very smart footballing-wise in this team.
that the bullshit he continually feeds us has past its sell by date. It really really saddens me that after everything he has done, every time the camera turns to Wenger during a game...I just don't want to look at him.
because, lets be honest, the lack of concentration and awareness is something we've been complaining about for years now, and it's showing no sign of being addressed!
