STOKE CITY THREAD

storrmin571 · Post by **storrmin571** » Sun May 08, 2011 4:35 pm

To quote buzz ligtyear sad little man how I pity you.

worthing gooner · Post by **worthing gooner** » Sun May 08, 2011 4:39 pm

The man is choosing the players with the required "Mental strength etc" but with non delivery of trophies he has to be questioned. The players can hide behind Wengers blindness and still pick up there monster salaries. Every two bob paper through to the worlds best football pundits all see our failings except the man who could do something about it.
But hey as long as the lads have the most funky haircuts/cars/followers on twitter then all is good.

USMartin · Post by **USMartin** » Sun May 08, 2011 4:40 pm

No one is saying Mr. Wenger is completely blameless - the issue is is he completely to blame?

My worry is that is the club decide to sack him they will feel that will be enough really to appease supporters, and it's not nearly enough to make this a better team really and could in fact leave us even for a short time moving further backward, and we simply cannot afford that on or off the ptich.

The fact is any further decline will put Champions League football into jeopardy, and seriously what kind of team can we put out without even Champions league football.?

We would have to spend on a par with Chelsea and City then just to get back to top four never mind winning silverware.

SteveO 35 · Post by **SteveO 35** » Sun May 08, 2011 4:42 pm

USMartin wrote:SteveO I just think you have to be careful on this. Like I say it would typical of this bunch to try and get away to quelling the masses by spending nothing but appointing a new man and like us to let them. And that would in all likelihood lead to even further decline and disappointmnet and no one wants that.

I'm not sure how to read the defensive issues, because even from 2002-2005 with a defence built entirely by Arsene Wenger we clearly did not have these same issues to the same extent. I mean in 2002 we gave up 36 goals and 2004 we gave up 26 goals, but maybe more telling from 2002 to 2005 we never once dropped points after taking a two-goal lead and only actually surrendered a two-goal lead once(and later won that match). We've done more than half a dozen times the last three years, even losing a couple of them.

I think it was Stuart Robson l;last week during the United match who said the problem with young players is they don't ancticipate any danger at al -, or don't anticipate it early enough I might say. Look at stoke's first two goals particularly, look at Bolton's winner, all down to players unable to seriously approach their jobs - including Szczesny on the deflected goal ( he wasn't even wrong-footed, just never expected to be troubled like that).

I think that too many inexperienced and yes young defenders too often the past few years simply cannot anticipate the danger around them because they are young and inexperienced and not that smart on their own yet in a footballing sense.

That lack of anticpation shows all over the pitch - how many times has Nik Bendtner not reacted to a ball falling to him right in front of goal because he assumed it wasn't going to him or wouldn't reach him? How many tap-ins has he passed up because he simply wasn't ready to deal with them?

But really where the inability to anticipate danger (or in attack opportunity)really bites you is in defence of corse. And I'm not sure you can just coach that anticipation into players straight away.Look at Gibbs on their first goal. Jumps even at all and at least puts off Jones if he doesn't get it, and if he makes a real jump ball nver gets near Jones. He ducked instead if anything, and I don't think he was coached to do that on the training ground. I think he was so worried about simply doing his single task he was incapable of anticpating the run being made right in behind him and doing anything about it.

Can he make players smarter on the training ground, because that is a big problem - a lot of players are very smart footballing-wise in this team.

Martin - when we won the League at Anfield in '89, Tony Adams was 22 years old, Winterburn and Dixon 25, and Steve Bould 26 - hardly veterans of the game. Only David O'Leary had veteran status back then but the defence was not being built around him. Those players went to Anfield and numerous other places that year and gave a perfect lesson in the art of defending and not at the expense of attacking flair either - Rocastle, Marwood, Merson etc were all expansive footballers.

Today's defenders were Sagna 28, Gibbs 21 (but so often this year has been Clichy 25), Koscielny 25 and Djourou 24; so not much difference in pure AGE terms. We also have Squillaci at 30 years old, compared with O'Leary who had just turned 31 when we won the League at Anfield.

I take some of your points on board but surely if the defenders are more inexperienced that should only emphasise the need for more focus on defensive coaching. Please - read that book. You can not fail to be impressed at the attention to detail with defending.

And those were players that we had signed from the likes of Stoke City and Wimbledon back then; not major signings costing millions.

A lot of your points about the board are valid but you simply have to stop allowing them as a 'catch all' for everything that is wrong. There was a simple statistic read out today about Arsenal conceding a higher percentage of goals than any other team in the Premiership (from set plays). That is not an accident or a measure of the fact that everyone else has a wonderful board; it is a shocking fact that despite our plentiful wage bill and extensive coaching team that we simply do not know how to defend properly.

Post by **g88ner** » Sun May 08, 2011 4:44 pm

Demun210 wrote:Am I really though? We are very quick to start slagging off Wenger and the team (with good reason), yet this is the same team that got themselves in the title race to begin with....so the buck can't completely stop with Wenger. We weren't complaining when we were grinding out good results in the first half of the season....the team could do it then, so why can't couldn't they in the 2nd half of the season? The downturn is not all on Wenger, no matter how you look at it. Certain players lost focus along the way, but I'm not saying Wenger Is completely blameless.

Look at the way our form has collapsed towards the end of the last 4 seasons... (from Gunnerblog)

2010-2011: With 11 games to go the title was in our hands. Weâ€™ve won once in seven and now the title is gone.
2009-2010: With seven games to go we were two points adrift. We won one of our next six and finished 11 behind Chelsea.
2007-2008: We were five points clear with 12 to play. We won one of our next eight

See a trend? coincidence or maybe they struggle under pressure when trophies are up for grabs?

The great teams go up a gear when they can smell silverware... this Arsenal team stalls again and again.

At what point do you start questioning the manager? - the mental strength (or lack of) of this squad has been evident for years, so if we keep repeating the same mistakes and keep imploding when the pressure of silverware is upon us, then when does it become the managers fault for not addressing it??

BournemouthRED · Post by **BournemouthRED** » Sun May 08, 2011 4:44 pm

Wenger from arse.com

on Arsenalâ€™s seasonâ€¦
This team has done well overall this season. This is not the best moment to analyse [the season] after a disappointing game. If you analyse all the competitions and how we have done, we have done well. Something has gone [and] you could see that today. We have to take a distance and make the right analysis of the season.

Errr we've done well in all competitions? Hmmmmm

worthing gooner · Post by **worthing gooner** » Sun May 08, 2011 4:46 pm

BournemouthRED wrote:Wenger from arse.com

on Arsenalâ€™s seasonâ€¦
This team has done well overall this season. This is not the best moment to analyse [the season] after a disappointing game. If you analyse all the competitions and how we have done, we have done well. Something has gone [and] you could see that today. We have to take a distance and make the right analysis of the season.

Errr we've done well in all competitions? Hmmmmm

By "Doing Well" he means that we turned up to play football.

SteveO 35 · Post by **SteveO 35** » Sun May 08, 2011 4:47 pm

BournemouthRED wrote:Wenger from arse.com

on Arsenalâ€™s seasonâ€¦
This team has done well overall this season. This is not the best moment to analyse [the season] after a disappointing game. If you analyse all the competitions and how we have done, we have done well. Something has gone [and] you could see that today. We have to take a distance and make the right analysis of the season.

Errr we've done well in all competitions? Hmmmmm

Yes coming 2nd in a group consisting of Shakhtar, Braga and Partizan and going out in the next round

Scraping past Leeds, Huddersfield and Orient before rolling over at OT, in the FA Cup.

Coming 3rd, possibly 4th, in the lowest quality Premiership since 1995.

The guy is just becoming a bigger *word censored* with every statement he makes

BournemouthRED · Post by **BournemouthRED** » Sun May 08, 2011 4:49 pm

Theres me thinking we've had a dire season again, maybe we all expect too much?

SteveO 35 · Post by **SteveO 35** » Sun May 08, 2011 4:53 pm

Martin - another stat just read out.

Man United have not conceded a headed goal when Ferdinand and Vidic have been on the field since March 2010

Rugby Gooner · Post by **Rugby Gooner** » Sun May 08, 2011 4:57 pm

BournemouthRED wrote:Wenger from arse.com

on Arsenalâ€™s seasonâ€¦
This team has done well overall this season. This is not the best moment to analyse [the season] after a disappointing game. If you analyse all the competitions and how we have done, we have done well. Something has gone [and] you could see that today. We have to take a distance and make the right analysis of the season.

Errr we've done well in all competitions? Hmmmmm

Wenger is living in a parallel universe where Care Bears,and My Little Ponys win things because they are delicate and beautiful,and Willy Wonka,(Stan Kronke), makes chocolate bars and dispenses golden tickets to the lucky little children to come to his factory! *word censored*!!!

Peeman · Post by **Peeman** » Sun May 08, 2011 4:57 pm

USMartin wrote:No one is saying Mr. Wenger is completely blameless - the issue is is he completely to blame?

My worry is that is the club decide to sack him they will feel that will be enough really to appease supporters, and it's not nearly enough to make this a better team really and could in fact leave us even for a short time moving further backward, and we simply cannot afford that on or off the ptich.

The fact is any further decline will put Champions League football into jeopardy, and seriously what kind of team can we put out without even Champions league football.?

We would have to spend on a par with Chelsea and City then just to get back to top four never mind winning silverware.

We are already in top 4 Marty and with a bit of motivation and tactics even with these piss poor attitude players(that he bought all of them) we would have walked the league this year. So stop beating ur drum about the bored we get it they are wankers.

But even in his trophy winning days he wasn't blessed with tactical nouse - its just that we were blessed with fabulous players(that he bought alot of them) with heart and determination etc etc etc etc. When we were getting beat he'd throw on all the strikers etc. He never got that great team further than QF in CL coz other managers were able to out think the dope. I could go on for pages but I don't like boring people with long posts

Revgoon89 · Post by **Revgoon89** » Sun May 08, 2011 5:01 pm

I just can't get angry anymore. I'm so disillusioned by the club at the moment and while Wenger is in charge, the players don't perform and the board don't care then I just wonder what the point is anymore? I want to see change happen and to see the club mount an effective challenge for glory, but when will it happen?

The BSM is a good way to start and I hope the fans will do more of the same, because quite frankly none of us deaserve to be paying top dollar for this.

tel · Post by **tel** » Sun May 08, 2011 5:12 pm

Revgoon89 wrote:I just can't get angry anymore. I'm so disillusioned by the club at the moment and while Wenger is in charge, the players don't perform and the board don't care then I just wonder what the point is anymore? I want to see change happen and to see the club mount an effective challenge for glory, but when will it happen?

The BSM is a good way to start and I hope the fans will do more of the same, because quite frankly none of us deaserve to be paying top dollar for this.

The BSM need to make their remit a bit wider. Why isnt it a Wenger out march also?

TeeCee · Post by **TeeCee** » Sun May 08, 2011 5:13 pm

The fact is, the manager, in any business, has that title because he is supposed to manage his responsibilities to return the greatest results.
If a guy who works in an office loses focus and concentration and just stares out the window, who do you blame if the office has bad end of year reviews/results? It's the managers job to see issues and address them! It's not rocket science, it's a managers fucking job!!!!!!!!!
Years of continual failure, for the same reasons as the season before and the season before that, can ONLY be one persons fault, the man that signs, coaches and motivates them. Wenger is so lacking in every single dept. It is an utter disgrace that he is allowed to carry on with no accountability. Arsenal football club are a huge joke, managed by a joke of a man.