As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
Demun210 wrote:Am I really though? We are very quick to start slagging off Wenger and the team (with good reason), yet this is the same team that got themselves in the title race to begin with....so the buck can't completely stop with Wenger. We weren't complaining when we were grinding out good results in the first half of the season....the team could do it then, so why can't couldn't they in the 2nd half of the season? The downturn is not all on Wenger, no matter how you look at it. Certain players lost focus along the way, but I'm not saying Wenger Is completely blameless.
Look at the way our form has collapsed towards the end of the last 4 seasons... (from Gunnerblog)
2010-2011: With 11 games to go the title was in our hands. We’ve won once in seven and now the title is gone.
2009-2010: With seven games to go we were two points adrift. We won one of our next six and finished 11 behind Chelsea.
2007-2008: We were five points clear with 12 to play. We won one of our next eight
See a trend? coincidence or maybe they struggle under pressure when trophies are up for grabs?
The great teams go up a gear when they can smell silverware... this Arsenal team stalls again and again.
At what point do you start questioning the manager? - the mental strength (or lack of) of this squad has been evident for years, so if we keep repeating the same problems and keep imploding when the pressure of silverware is upon us, then when does it become the managers fault for not addressing it??
Definitely makes for grim reading....especially when I remember those individual seasons and can argue to this day where I think it went wrong.
I think Wenger has to take the blame to a degree (and for not addressing these issues), but we've been the worlds worst for suffering due to individual/collective errors as well.
I definately agree with that.
It's amazing how many times we've shot ourselves in the foot by finding new ways to lose a game!
I said this the other week, by saying that IF Eboue hadn't gifted Liverpool a 102nd minute equaliser, and if Diaby hadn't selfishly got himself sent off when we were 4-0 up vs. Toon, if Kos & Szs hadn't gifted Obafemi Martins a winner in the cup final, if we hadn't been so arrogant and complacent when beating Sp*rs 2-0 at home.... etc. etc. - we keep messing up, and it's MORE a mental problem than quality.
For an intelligent bloke AW does not seem to be learning from making the same mistakes over and over again.
There will be a backlash this season. I and two mates will not be renewing our ST's. Not just because of the pain created on the pitch but enough is enough.
If it's the same again next season there will be double the number stopping their financial support of the club.
SteveO 35 wrote: Martin - when we won the League at Anfield in '89, Tony Adams was 22 years old, Winterburn and Dixon 25, and Steve Bould 26 - hardly veterans of the game. Only David O'Leary had veteran status back then but the defence was not being built around him. Those players went to Anfield and numerous other places that year and gave a perfect lesson in the art of defending and not at the expense of attacking flair either - Rocastle, Marwood, Merson etc were all expansive footballers.
Today's defenders were Sagna 28, Gibbs 21 (but so often this year has been Clichy 25), Koscielny 25 and Djourou 24; so not much difference in pure AGE terms. We also have Squillaci at 30 years old, compared with O'Leary who had just turned 31 when we won the League at Anfield.
I take some of your points on board but surely if the defenders are more inexperienced that should only emphasise the need for more focus on defensive coaching. Please - read that book. You can not fail to be impressed at the attention to detail with defending.
And those were players that we had signed from the likes of Stoke City and Wimbledon back then; not major signings costing millions.
A lot of your points about the board are valid but you simply have to stop allowing them as a 'catch all' for everything that is wrong. There was a simple statistic read out today about Arsenal conceding a higher percentage of goals than any other team in the Premiership (from set plays). That is not an accident or a measure of the fact that everyone else has a wonderful board; it is a shocking fact that despite our plentiful wage bill and extensive coaching team that we simply do not know how to defend properly.
Sorry but I think that is a poor comparison given that Djourou has about two seasons total featuring defence, and before this year Koscielny had one year's experiecne at the top flight. By the same token Tony Adams captained our team at 19. If you are good enough and tough enough and smart enough you are old enough. after all. Add in Gibbs who has never featured regularly for any period of time, amnd Szczesny whose sum epxerience till December was at Brentford FC, and in front of them Song whose only got three years in his role and is not the best at ti now even as he lstill learns it, Ramsey out a year and in his late teems still and Wilshere a wonderful prospect who will come good but still has to, and you have so many opportunities to fail to anticipate what is happening its terrifying and only two or three such moments can turn a match and even a season.
Even the best and most experienced players will switch off or not switch on at times, but usually they have the ability to, overcome that and the experience to minimize its occurence because it can happen a dozen times a match if you let it, and too many of these players are so inexperienced that they do. A manager can't think for a player on the pitch . You wonder if they have the intellignce in footballing terms or the personality to use it sometimes really.
The worst thing for me, and the reason why I think wenger HAS to go, is because he has persisted year in year out with this youth thing.
Now dont get me wrong, I'm all for bringing young players through, and I applaud some of the signings we've made like Ramsey who I think will be quality in time.
The trouble is, a lot of these youngsters are not good enough YET and shouldn't be playing week in week out for a whole season.
Looking at it objectively, how much better might Walcott be now if Henry was still here? How much better might Denilson be now if Gilberto stayed? What about Diaby and Vieira?
Wenger seems to think that as soon as people get older than 30, they're a waste of space. You only need to look at Campbell's return last season to see how much of a boost a bit of experience gives a team. Look at United with Giggs and Scholes, how much have they taught the younger players?
Wenger fails every single season to address the problem. Yeah so we got a bit of cash for Henry, but honestly his experience and determination and pride are fucking PRICELESS and this is what we lack.
Just got back home from this farce. wasnt going to go but talked myself into it i am a prick. Arsenal you are a bunch of gutless spineless *word censored*. Mental strength my arse
jamjc64 wrote:Just got back home from this farce. wasnt going to go but talked myself into it i am a prick. Arsenal you are a bunch of gutless spineless c**ts. Mental strength my arse
Jamie I said earlier that I wished you'd really had a go at them to let them know that this bollocks has to change
jamjc64 wrote:Just got back home from this farce. wasnt going to go but talked myself into it i am a prick. Arsenal you are a bunch of gutless spineless c**ts. Mental strength my arse
No you aren't - what did you do wrong (well actually you have been kind of a prick toward me ) but seriously you didn't do anything wrong. You supported your club. You went hoping for the best (I think we're all a ways past expecting the best now) from and for us. Don't ever blasme yourself for that even as a joke. This mess is not any of our fault or doing.
just got back. the highlight was trying to get the players hyped up as they went into the tunnel at the end of the first half. shit performance , and I don't seem too hurt by the defeat anymore
Just back. Yet another shit, entirely predictable performance yet I can't even get angry any more.
Lifeless, clueless, no ideas. They look like they're counting down the days till summer. Appalling defending, how much space did they wanna give Pennant for the second? And yet another terrible clearance for their 3rd...
Dan_85 wrote:Just back. Yet another shit, entirely predictable performance yet I can't even get angry any more.
Lifeless, clueless, no ideas. They look like they're counting down the days till summer. Appalling defending, how much space did they wanna give Pennant for the second? And yet another terrible clearance for their 3rd...
Now, about that 6.5%.....
And that Daniel is where it has all gone tits up. The only way Wenger can manage is to say 'Go Play' and unless you have the talent of a certain Spanish team then I'm afraid you'll get found out eventually and guess what, we've been found out and Wenger can't change it. It doesn't need a rocket scientist to tell your players to go wide if trying to thread balls through a packed central defence isn't working. Where is the coaching?
Just back. Gutless, spineless, losers. To listen to Wenger on the radio after doing the usual "there are many Club's that would love to be in our position" rubbish made me want to vomit. yes of course Everton, Villa, even tottingham would like to be in our place but is that our benchmark now? I don't think the Chavs or moaners are exactly envious of us. It will never change whilst that man is in charge. Loser. Well done to those supporters who were giving our spineless players and manager stick as they came off at full time.
jamjc64 wrote:Just got back home from this farce. wasnt going to go but talked myself into it i am a prick. Arsenal you are a bunch of gutless spineless c**ts. Mental strength my arse
No you aren't - what did you do wrong (well actually you have been kind of a prick toward me ) but seriously you didn't do anything wrong. You supported your club. You went hoping for the best (I think we're all a ways past expecting the best now) from and for us. Don't ever blasme yourself for that even as a joke. This mess is not any of our fault or doing.
worthing_gooner wrote:The worst thing for me, and the reason why I think wenger HAS to go, is because he has persisted year in year out with this youth thing.
Now dont get me wrong, I'm all for bringing young players through, and I applaud some of the signings we've made like Ramsey who I think will be quality in time.
The trouble is, a lot of these youngsters are not good enough YET and shouldn't be playing week in week out for a whole season.
Looking at it objectively, how much better might Walcott be now if Henry was still here? How much better might Denilson be now if Gilberto stayed? What about Diaby and Vieira?
Wenger seems to think that as soon as people get older than 30, they're a waste of space. You only need to look at Campbell's return last season to see how much of a boost a bit of experience gives a team. Look at United with Giggs and Scholes, how much have they taught the younger players?
Wenger fails every single season to address the problem. Yeah so we got a bit of cash for Henry, but honestly his experience and determination and pride are fucking PRICELESS and this is what we lack.
Agree with every single word, great post and Cesc himself has referred to the lack of experience in recent interviews. Gilberto, Gallas, Pires, Henry, Vieira - all departed 2 years too early.
Anybody catch match of the day yesterday ? specifically the West Ham v Blackburn game ? Samba stopped almost everything West Ham could muster, he would make a huge difference to our team with physical presence, arial ability both attacking and defensive and he is willing to throw himself into a block for a club that are struggling to stay up.
Just think what he might do to win a cup / league ?
Heart, desire, guts, passion, will to win, never say die, that is what he has and what we lack.
I don't care about his technical ability he wouldn't fanny around with it in our box he would clear it to the half way line - take note Clichy, Djorou.
) but seriously you didn't do anything wrong. You supported your club. You went hoping for the best (I think we're all a ways past expecting the best now) from and for us. Don't ever blasme yourself for that even as a joke. This mess is not any of our fault or doing.
