USM over the summer shut the F***up, we get it!!

[RoscommonGooner]

USM is contantly accused of hijacking thread threads whereas he says that a discussion about the board is relevant on the particular thread. The thing is, you could argue that a discussion about the board is relevant on any Arsenal related thread.

The Team is Shit thread - Wengers hands are tied by the board
Potential Signing thread - The board won't allow Wenger spend that much
New Shirt thread - The board are robbing us
6% Price Increase thread - The board are robbing us
etc., etc.

I think that most on here just wish that USM would save his rants for threads that are obviously board related. Choose your battles more carefully USM. There's nothing worse than logging on here, start reading a thread that may be interesting (unlikely I know ) only to discover that on page 2 or 3 it's board time

Just my opinion

So you are saying we should pretend it has nothing to do with that so some people can feel better about themselves?

Where did I say that? Re-read the bit I put in bold.

And actually I don't think I had that much to say in the latter two threads you refer to. Indeed I have said all along about the ticket price increase you can't complain about that and then ask the Board to invest more money in the team (go back and look), and I don't think I made any sort of serious comment on the shirt thiing as well. Oh I think I commented that no one will be able to claim next year's team lacks bottles or something to that effect.

The threads I listed weren't necessarily existing threads, they were examples.

But you are dead wrong about the first two topics you list. Toi point that is in fact part of the effect of the Board's actions and policies is absolutely 100% valid. It is certainly every bit as valid as calling Arsene Wenger senile and deluded and a c**t which goes on in every single one of those threads and goes virtually unopposed by everyone who takes such deep offense at my views. To say otherwise is intellectually and factually dishonest, especially givben the fact that I may be and believe in fact I am right to a large extent. The actual truth should matter in these discussions not the convieient truth.

The threads I listed weren't necessarily existing threads, they were examples

And it should mattter in criticizing me

Where did I criticize you?

- you cite two examples of me hi-jacking threads that if go back and read I simply never did. If you are so sure you are right about me I am sure you have no fear to go back and prove that then by reading those threads to prove me wrong.

The truth is the anger at me is less about anything than my views themselves and I think that in this instance that is clear certainly.

USM, believe it or not I was not having a go. Again re-read the bit I put in bold above. I was simply stating that sometimes less is more. As some others have already said they have reached the point that they now just skip over your posts, I'm sure this is not what you want to happen. Also, I have previously said that I do agree with some of what you say on here, I just think you say is too much and too often, as I said in my original post I think you should choose your battles more carefully.

EDIT: I just want to add that after the bolded bit the threads mentioned were examples of how almost any thread in "Arsenal Chat" could be turned into discussions on the board, (wheather or not they should be is another discussion). I should have made this clearer in the original post.

But, true to form Marty comes on shooting his gob off and attacks. If you weren't so paranoid you might have noticed that I wasn't having a go and, I'm not sure but, may even have been sticking up for him.

[USMartin]

USM Thank you for responding to my post but I wasn't asking you to. A slight waste of your time. However I still did you the dignity of reading your post although as I thought I've learnt nothing new from what you continually spout off.

I no longer debate with you as your hell bent on your theory and fair play your sticking to it. I'm open to listen to listen to anyone’s view points put I don't want to hear it, nor need to, listen to the same points every day in threads that are not even related to these points.

I do care, and I'm not simply ignoring what’s going on.
The problem is you have your theory and I have mine. I can debate your points and we have done in the past but we will never come to and agreement and will be going round in circles hence why I never reply to your post.

Now doubt you'll respond with some link of figures discounting what I’ve said or take a pop at me saying that I'm sweeping under the carpet.

I haven't said you do not care. I have said you care more about preserving a vision of the club that is huighly idealized and romanticized about what the Club used to be certainly more than facing the reality is or may well be now.. That is absolutely true in my mind.

After all you avoid looking at things more closely by saying we don't know what happens behind closed doors yet you assert things as fact that ahppen behind those smae closed doors when those facts suit you and your view (e.g. the manager being solely repsonsible for what players are paid).

The point is that though all of this happens behind closed doors there are still things that creep out form behind those doors for us to see you seem to want to ignore them and pretend we have no idea at all of what is happening let alone why when we are adults not little children and we can see and think for ourselves based on what we see. And based on what I see the Board deserve to face our scrutiny and now before the team is set back for sveral years or decades even.

I may be right(and unfortunately I am increasingly certain that is the case) and I may be wrong, but given the stakes I think knowing for certain which it is matters to every single one of us. Indeed if you are so sure you are right you should want to prove that not try and pretend its impossible to say either way.

I'll just add this. I've only read back to where I joined this forum, so I can't say for certain that your views were closer to mine a year or two back, so I am genuinely curious why have they reverted to where they are now? Not having a go - I'm just honestly curious because there must be some genuinely factual basis on which you would withdraw from that position. Feel free to PM me a reply. I won't bite (damned ocean )

[marcengels]

If you can say what you want to say Martin, as succinctly as "Wenger is a senile, old *word censored*", then I don't think there will be any problem.

[USMartin]

USM is contantly accused of hijacking thread threads whereas he says that a discussion about the board is relevant on the particular thread. The thing is, you could argue that a discussion about the board is relevant on any Arsenal related thread.

The Team is Shit thread - Wengers hands are tied by the board
Potential Signing thread - The board won't allow Wenger spend that much
New Shirt thread - The board are robbing us
6% Price Increase thread - The board are robbing us
etc., etc.

I think that most on here just wish that USM would save his rants for threads that are obviously board related. Choose your battles more carefully USM. There's nothing worse than logging on here, start reading a thread that may be interesting (unlikely I know ) only to discover that on page 2 or 3 it's board time

Just my opinion

So you are saying we should pretend it has nothing to do with that so some people can feel better about themselves?

Where did I say that? Re-read the bit I put in bold.

And actually I don't think I had that much to say in the latter two threads you refer to. Indeed I have said all along about the ticket price increase you can't complain about that and then ask the Board to invest more money in the team (go back and look), and I don't think I made any sort of serious comment on the shirt thiing as well. Oh I think I commented that no one will be able to claim next year's team lacks bottles or something to that effect.

The threads I listed weren't necessarily existing threads, they were examples.

But you are dead wrong about the first two topics you list. Toi point that is in fact part of the effect of the Board's actions and policies is absolutely 100% valid. It is certainly every bit as valid as calling Arsene Wenger senile and deluded and a c**t which goes on in every single one of those threads and goes virtually unopposed by everyone who takes such deep offense at my views. To say otherwise is intellectually and factually dishonest, especially givben the fact that I may be and believe in fact I am right to a large extent. The actual truth should matter in these discussions not the convieient truth.

The threads I listed weren't necessarily existing threads, they were examples

And it should mattter in criticizing me

Where did I criticize you?

- you cite two examples of me hi-jacking threads that if go back and read I simply never did. If you are so sure you are right about me I am sure you have no fear to go back and prove that then by reading those threads to prove me wrong.

The truth is the anger at me is less about anything than my views themselves and I think that in this instance that is clear certainly.

USM, believe it or not I was not having a go. Again re-read the bit I put in bold above. I was simply stating that sometimes less is more. As some others have already said they have reached the point that they now just skip over your posts, I'm sure this is not what you want to happen. Also, I have previously said that I do agree with some of what you say on here, I just think you say is too much and too often, as I said in my original post I think you should choose your battles more carefully.

EDIT: I just want to add that after the bolded bit the threads mentioned were examples of how almost any thread in "Arsenal Chat" could be turned into discussions on the board, (wheather or not they should be is another discussion). I should have made this clearer in the original post.

But, true to form Marty comes on shooting his gob off and attacks. If you weren't so paranoid you might have noticed that I wasn't having a go and, I'm not sure but, may even have been sticking up for him.

I think reading your edit its hard to buy you were sticking up for me here Ros.

I think since I "hijack" almost every thread as you say you could have picked genuine examples of that (or at least genuine examples of what you consider to be that). You may call that sloppiness. What would call it if I had done the same to you in the same inaccurate way...honest answer please.

As I have said before thread hi-jacking is not honestly or consistently defined here at all and those who complain of it in my case almost universally object to my views more than anything else, and ignore other behavior that is esxactly the same as my own and solely because the editorial views in those instances is preferable. Only One Song got is spot-on earlier. Enter every single thread with "Wenger out you *word censored*" and that is fine. But challenge their conventional wisdom about the Board in the same thread the same way and suddenly that becomes hi-jacking.

Seriously you read the same threads I do obviously and certainly DB10 does can either of you tell me that isn't true on here? That people judge things largely if not entirely based upon which views they agree with including personal conduct on the forum?

[Boomer]

USM is contantly accused of hijacking thread threads whereas he says that a discussion about the board is relevant on the particular thread. The thing is, you could argue that a discussion about the board is relevant on any Arsenal related thread.

The Team is Shit thread - Wengers hands are tied by the board
Potential Signing thread - The board won't allow Wenger spend that much
New Shirt thread - The board are robbing us
6% Price Increase thread - The board are robbing us
etc., etc.

I think that most on here just wish that USM would save his rants for threads that are obviously board related. Choose your battles more carefully USM. There's nothing worse than logging on here, start reading a thread that may be interesting (unlikely I know ) only to discover that on page 2 or 3 it's board time

Just my opinion

So you are saying we should pretend it has nothing to do with that so some people can feel better about themselves? And actually I don't think I had that much to say in the latter two threads you refer to. Indeed I have said all along about the ticket price increase you can't complain about that and then ask the Board to invest more money in the team (go back and look), and I don't think I made any sort of serious comment on the shirt thiing as well. Oh I think I commented that no one will be able to claim next year's team lacks bottles or something to that effect.

But you are dead wrong about the first two topics you list. Toi point that is in fact part of the effect of the Board's actions and policies is absolutely 100% valid. It is certainly every bit as valid as calling Arsene Wenger senile and deluded and a c**t which goes on in every single one of those threads and goes virtually unopposed by everyone who takes such deep offense at my views. To say otherwise is intellectually and factually dishonest, especially givben the fact that I may be and believe in fact I am right to a large extent. The actual truth should matter in these discussions not the convieient truth.

And it should mattter in criticizing me - you cite two examples of me hi-jacking threads that if go back and read I simply never did. If you are so sure you are right about me I am sure you have no fear to go back and prove that then by reading those threads to prove me wrong.

The truth is the anger at me is less about anything than my views themselves and I think that in this instance that is clear certainly.

I don't think Rosco is having a go.....more backing you up!

[Edit: Just seen his responce]

[RoscommonGooner]

I think reading your edit its hard to buy you were sticking up for me here Ros.

I think since I "hijack" almost every thread as you say you could have picked genuine examples of that (or at least genuine examples of what you consider to be that). You may call that sloppiness. What would call it if I had done the same to you in the same inaccurate way...honest answer please.

As I have said before thread hi-jacking is not honestly or consistently defined here at all and those who complain of it in my case almost universally object to my views more than anything else, and ignore other behavior that is esxactly the same as my own and solely because the editorial views in those instances is preferable. Only One Song got is spot-on earlier. Enter every single thread with "Wenger out you c**t" and that is fine. But challenge their conventional wisdom about the Board in the same thread the same way and suddenly that becomes hi-jacking.

Seriously you read the same threads I do obviously and certainly DB10 does can either of you tell me that isn't true on here? That people judge things largely if not entirely based upon which views they agree with including personal conduct on the forum?

Sweet Jesus man, will you take your head out of your arse for a minute. I'll break it down for you

I did not say that you "hijack almost every thread", what I said was

USM is contantly accused of hijacking thread threads whereas he says that a discussion about the board is relevant on the particular thread.

Is that criticizeing you?

I went on to say.........

The thing is, you could argue that a discussion about the board is relevant on any Arsenal related thread.

......thereby backing your right to talk about the board on threads that are not obviously board related i.e. a thread called "Arsenal announce Record Profits" for example.

I simply expressed my wish that you chose the threads to discuss the board more carefully rather than discussing it on every thread. Although I can't think of examples off the top of my head there have been times were a board discussion would be ongoing on a thread only for the same or a very similar discussion to start on another thread. I think that's what people find frustrating.

[Boomer]

USM Thank you for responding to my post but I wasn't asking you to. A slight waste of your time. However I still did you the dignity of reading your post although as I thought I've learnt nothing new from what you continually spout off.

I no longer debate with you as your hell bent on your theory and fair play your sticking to it. I'm open to listen to listen to anyone’s view points put I don't want to hear it, nor need to, listen to the same points every day in threads that are not even related to these points.

I do care, and I'm not simply ignoring what’s going on.
The problem is you have your theory and I have mine. I can debate your points and we have done in the past but we will never come to and agreement and will be going round in circles hence why I never reply to your post.

Now doubt you'll respond with some link of figures discounting what I’ve said or take a pop at me saying that I'm sweeping under the carpet.

I haven't said you do not care. I have said you care more about preserving a vision of the club that is huighly idealized and romanticized about what the Club used to be certainly more than facing the reality is or may well be now.. That is absolutely true in my mind.

After all you avoid looking at things more closely by saying we don't know what happens behind closed doors yet you assert things as fact that ahppen behind those smae closed doors when those facts suit you and your view (e.g. the manager being solely repsonsible for what players are paid).

The point is that though all of this happens behind closed doors there are still things that creep out form behind those doors for us to see you seem to want to ignore them and pretend we have no idea at all of what is happening let alone why when we are adults not little children and we can see and think for ourselves based on what we see. And based on what I see the Board deserve to face our scrutiny and now before the team is set back for sveral years or decades even.

I may be right(and unfortunately I am increasingly certain that is the case) and I may be wrong, but given the stakes I think knowing for certain which it is matters to every single one of us. Indeed if you are so sure you are right you should want to prove that not try and pretend its impossible to say either way.

I'll just add this. I've only read back to where I joined this forum, so I can't say for certain that your views were closer to mine a year or two back, so I am genuinely curious why have they reverted to where they are now? Not having a go - I'm just honestly curious because there must be some genuinely factual basis on which you would withdraw from that position. Feel free to PM me a reply. I won't bite (damned ocean )

I never said that you'd mentioned that I don't care.

I assert things as fact!


Martin, I've said all a long I've got some THEORIES!!!
Theories cannot be (unless later proven ) fact.

Also I don't know why you talk about your views a 1 or 2 ago because (this is a fact) you've only been registered here for a year.

In the above you even admit in one sentance "I may be right" but then you take it away but claiming your knowingly right on what can only be assumption. Yes you may well be right but it is not FACT.

[USMartin]

If you can say what you want to say Martin, as succinctly as "Wenger is a senile, old c**t", then I don't think there will be any problem.

I could but then I would be asked to prove it or accused of lying and have to defend myself and my position, and trust me that is where all the.......the......the.......the...........comes in. Some things can't be said that simply especially not when the truth about them matters.

[USMartin]

I never said that you'd mentioned that I don't care.

Actually your statement strongly implies as much especially as several others did say that directly, and most people wouldn’t say I do care unless they had been accused of not caring or felt as much.

I assert things as fact!

Yes in the past week – maybe even in this very thread – where you stated Arsene Wenger made all the decisions on player wages you stated that as affirmative fact(no language to indicate it may or may not be true at all). You later stated this was in fact speculation but your own language in presenting the view suggested you believe it fact. Which is fine, other than the fact that you base it on I can only presume uniformed speculation as we can’t know what is happening behind closed doors after all.

Martin, I've said all a long I've got some THEORIES!!!
Theories cannot be (unless later proven ) fact.

Reasonable enough, except that does not justify simply waiting for incontrovertible factual evidence before raising sound reasonable and responsible questions, for by the time we do have the sort of evidence you suggest it will be too late and the damage far greater to Arsenal than it had to be and thus far greater to all of us than it had to be.

If you think something wrong or dangerous is going on in your child’s bedroom behind closed doors do you wait until you are certain of this to try and stop it? And apologies to you and any and all reading this who may have actually faced this dilemna in their lives in advance...but it is a valid point.

[USMartin]

Also I don't know why you talk about your views a 1 or 2 ago because (this is a fact) you've only been registered here for a year.

Except I didn’t say that at all. What I said is below

I'll just add this. I've only read back to where I joined this forum, so I can't say for certain that your views were closer to mine a year or two back, so I am genuinely curious why have they reverted to where they are now?

and that was based on this

I know! I'm supposed to be the so called financial man on this forum (How the fuck did I get that title! ) but most of what USM says is near enough what I've said about 2 years ago.

I simply stated I have not seen what you stated then and would like to know why your position has moved as there must be some valid reason for that, no?

[redstevo]

Are you RainMan?

[USMartin]

In the above you even admit in one sentance "I may be right" but then you take it away but claiming your knowingly right on what can only be assumption. Yes you may well be right but it is not FACT.

I didn't admit anything because there is nothing to admit. I have always said this may be the truth and that I believe that it is likely that its is in fact there truth. All I have asserted here is that I am more certain that is the case now than before, not that in fact that is a certainty that hads been proven incontrovertibly.

Read again and tell me otherwise

I may be right(and unfortunately I am increasingly certain that is the case) and I may be wrong, but given the stakes I think knowing for certain which it is matters to every single one of us. Indeed if you are so sure you are right you should want to prove that not try and pretend its impossible to say either way.

But note especially what I say next - that given the stakes for Arsenal and everyone who loves Arsenal the possibility I am right should lead us to seek the truth not wait until it is clear that the worst in fact was happening and had happened, and its too late to undo the damage caused and the pain suffered for it by every single one of us.

[USMartin]

Are you rainmain?

No but I do have a RainCat

[USMartin]

I spologize if I mis-read certain aspects of your post Roscommon. I think I did though then again there was rather strongly worded views of me and my views that (rants and the like) that probably changed how one would read that depending on if they were the person in question.

But I disagree strongly with your recommendation all the same because you are asking me to do precisely what you are saying I should not have to do, which is not post in certain threads about the Board where I deem it relevant, which is a fair subject for debate, so long as the conclusion is objectively reached and not in a manner of speaking politically reached - that is based upon what you want to believe for yourself (not you specifically but anyone trying to make that sort of judgement).

Just one more thing "Club Announce Record Profits" would inany circumstance be a thread where one would want to discuss the Board whenter to commend or to criticize them I should think as they are ultimately responsible for thoise aspects of the Club's operation. I would think they deserve credit for those record profits but if they were achieved in a way or for reasons that were not in Arsenal's best interests they might also deserve criticism.

But surely they would merit metion in that thread eother way, no? Jusrt asking.

[redstevo]

The question is


Who's on first base?