http://www.onlinegooner.com/exclusive/index.php?id=536
usual thread starter… I suspect the lack of passion shown on Saturday by our players (Eduardo and Lehmann excepted for me) was the straw that broke the camel’s back for this fan. It is interesting though that he cites Henry as a player who cared, as there are those who believed he often couldn’t give a fig. It’s in the eye of the beholder I guess.
Can you accept that the players do not seem to care? Is this common to all teams now or a particular problem at Arsenal?
Do you think any of them were hurting as much as the fans who turned up to back them at OT?
Arsenal FC – the wholesale betrayal of a legacy (19/2)
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Desert_Gooner
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2007 12:02 pm
Betrayal of a legacy?
I agree, let's go back to players being slaves to the board, the managers sending them out stoked up with painkillers, rivers of piss on the terraces, stanley knives, hey as long as they "play with pride".
The world has changed my friend, and you'd better get used to it.
Saturday was the inevitable result of us going through the growing pains of the Emirates move - it won't last forever, so have some bloody patience.
The world has changed my friend, and you'd better get used to it.
Saturday was the inevitable result of us going through the growing pains of the Emirates move - it won't last forever, so have some bloody patience.
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Rainham Red
- Posts: 58
- Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:01 pm
- Location: Kent UK
Goodbye to OUR football?
A sad story but I agree with Desert Gooner the game has moved on.Sure it would be nice if every Arsenal player was born in London or came from within 10 miles of the Emirates but the days when players went by tube and had a drink in the same pub as the fans are long gone but what we now have is a world class stadium with world class facilities.We see players from all over the world who have skill which amazes and delights us.Our team play the type of football that before the Wenger era we would have thought impossible.
Sure everyone was upset by the way we played Saturday,I was one of the 9000 thousand who was at Old Trafford,but I will be trying to get a ticket for the league match in April.These disappointments happen in football but do you remember the season when we got to the European Championship Final?Do you remember the teams we beat on the way some of the greatest names in world football Real Madrid,Juventus,Villareal,do you not remember the ecstasy you must have felt when the final whistle went in the semi-final and we had made it to the Final.This is what makes football the greatest game in the world the ecstasy and the agony.
So change your mind and I promise you will not be sorry.
Sure everyone was upset by the way we played Saturday,I was one of the 9000 thousand who was at Old Trafford,but I will be trying to get a ticket for the league match in April.These disappointments happen in football but do you remember the season when we got to the European Championship Final?Do you remember the teams we beat on the way some of the greatest names in world football Real Madrid,Juventus,Villareal,do you not remember the ecstasy you must have felt when the final whistle went in the semi-final and we had made it to the Final.This is what makes football the greatest game in the world the ecstasy and the agony.
So change your mind and I promise you will not be sorry.
Please lighten up mate. We lost a game. We lost a lot more in the 70s.
Not wanting to be too controversial, but don't you think football is about football? Look at what's happening on the grass (ie the pitch - I'm not advocating substance abuse) and all is very well indeed. We could go back to the 70s but I for one would not see kick and rush on the pitch and on the terraces as an upgrade.
People remember the past as being a golden age because your memory focuses on the good stuff and filters out the crap. The reality is that in footballing terms we've never had it so good. Even England are better now than in the 70s.
Having said all that one thing that really annoyed me after the two cup exits (apart from wasting money on the tickets and in the case of Saturday the petrol) was that most of the players couldn't be Arsed to come over and clap the fans at the end. Apart from Flamini and a couple of others I'm too depressed to remember.
We'll be back to win the league!
Not wanting to be too controversial, but don't you think football is about football? Look at what's happening on the grass (ie the pitch - I'm not advocating substance abuse) and all is very well indeed. We could go back to the 70s but I for one would not see kick and rush on the pitch and on the terraces as an upgrade.
People remember the past as being a golden age because your memory focuses on the good stuff and filters out the crap. The reality is that in footballing terms we've never had it so good. Even England are better now than in the 70s.
Having said all that one thing that really annoyed me after the two cup exits (apart from wasting money on the tickets and in the case of Saturday the petrol) was that most of the players couldn't be Arsed to come over and clap the fans at the end. Apart from Flamini and a couple of others I'm too depressed to remember.
We'll be back to win the league!
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Gooneroonie
- Posts: 257
- Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:33 pm
- Location: Islington / Dublin
A sad summary, but one that I can relate to, to a certain extent.
Please do take into consideration though that there are still fans that know what it means to be 'Arsenal' regardless of generation and that a foreign player can still play with the same passion and loyalty of those you idloised in the past.
Things have become a lot more commercial, but hasn't life in general...?
We need old school fans like you to counter some of the new breed that don't have a clue.
Please do take into consideration though that there are still fans that know what it means to be 'Arsenal' regardless of generation and that a foreign player can still play with the same passion and loyalty of those you idloised in the past.
Things have become a lot more commercial, but hasn't life in general...?
We need old school fans like you to counter some of the new breed that don't have a clue.
It's a bit much innit?!
Granted, the game has changed from back then. I'd give my molars to have stood on the North Bank. Yes, I wish the new stadium had a proper name rather it being a branding exercise.
But I agree, we need fans like this guy who have seen a lot of crap played by Arsenal over the years to remind us that actually, we have made progress! I doubt very much we will be in relegation scraps again, rejoice in having 1-2 players who actually could pass the ball, we have a stable football team and club, an ethos that I believe the club has largely retained, so long may it continue. Just be thankful you ain't a chav.
To all the old-timers out there- there are a bunch of young committed fans out there who need some link to the past. I didn't mind walking out of Old Trafford on Saturday as a losing fan; I'm glad I have had that experience, because it will make winning there in April all the more sweeter. 'Ave it!
Granted, the game has changed from back then. I'd give my molars to have stood on the North Bank. Yes, I wish the new stadium had a proper name rather it being a branding exercise.
But I agree, we need fans like this guy who have seen a lot of crap played by Arsenal over the years to remind us that actually, we have made progress! I doubt very much we will be in relegation scraps again, rejoice in having 1-2 players who actually could pass the ball, we have a stable football team and club, an ethos that I believe the club has largely retained, so long may it continue. Just be thankful you ain't a chav.
To all the old-timers out there- there are a bunch of young committed fans out there who need some link to the past. I didn't mind walking out of Old Trafford on Saturday as a losing fan; I'm glad I have had that experience, because it will make winning there in April all the more sweeter. 'Ave it!
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Redexpress
- Posts: 103
- Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:09 pm
Life does move on etc etc. I remember oing to a Ranger v Celtic game when I was a kid and being absolutely petrified by the thuggery around me, inside and outside.
I only started going to football again when I moved to London and went to see the reds a few times on a casual basis, £6 into the North Bank, and before I knew it I CARED, and the rest is history.
One thing that pleasantly surprised me then was the non existence of any violence or even undertones. (the only dodgy experience I ever had was at the Old Den).
I now live in Ireland and only get to a few games a season, and am bringing my 10 year old daughter to the Villa match. I have absolutely no qualms about bringing her, despite my experiences as a nipper, because we have moved on so much from those prehistoric days.
On the subject of players who care, did Carter and McGoldrick care more for Arsenal than Vieira, Henry, or Fabregas.
I have sat in disbelief watching class players like Vieira, Henry and Cesc thinking "He plays for US"!
Players like Groves, Parlour, and Paul Davis refer to Arsenal as "us" or "we. I am sure in years to come that some of the current and recent squad do the same, a la Manu Petit on Setanta.
I only started going to football again when I moved to London and went to see the reds a few times on a casual basis, £6 into the North Bank, and before I knew it I CARED, and the rest is history.
One thing that pleasantly surprised me then was the non existence of any violence or even undertones. (the only dodgy experience I ever had was at the Old Den).
I now live in Ireland and only get to a few games a season, and am bringing my 10 year old daughter to the Villa match. I have absolutely no qualms about bringing her, despite my experiences as a nipper, because we have moved on so much from those prehistoric days.
On the subject of players who care, did Carter and McGoldrick care more for Arsenal than Vieira, Henry, or Fabregas.
I have sat in disbelief watching class players like Vieira, Henry and Cesc thinking "He plays for US"!
Players like Groves, Parlour, and Paul Davis refer to Arsenal as "us" or "we. I am sure in years to come that some of the current and recent squad do the same, a la Manu Petit on Setanta.
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DB10GOONER
- Posts: 62066
- Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:06 pm
- Location: Dublin, Ireland.
- Contact:
Brilliant post, mate.dennis_10 wrote:It's a bit much innit?!
Granted, the game has changed from back then. I'd give my molars to have stood on the North Bank. Yes, I wish the new stadium had a proper name rather it being a branding exercise.
But I agree, we need fans like this guy who have seen a lot of crap played by Arsenal over the years to remind us that actually, we have made progress! I doubt very much we will be in relegation scraps again, rejoice in having 1-2 players who actually could pass the ball, we have a stable football team and club, an ethos that I believe the club has largely retained, so long may it continue. Just be thankful you ain't a chav.
To all the old-timers out there- there are a bunch of young committed fans out there who need some link to the past. I didn't mind walking out of Old Trafford on Saturday as a losing fan; I'm glad I have had that experience, because it will make winning there in April all the more sweeter. 'Ave it!
Sums it up nicely. I lived through the false dawn of the late 70's and the horrors of the boring 80's and, yeah, it was great that the players were lads like us etc etc, but f*ck that, I'd rather watch decent football any day. The players don't have to care for us or the club. All I ask is they respect it and us. There is a difference.
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QuartzGooner
- Posts: 14474
- Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:49 pm
- Location: London
Much to like about pre Premier League football, especially cameraderie on terraces (somethimes) and ability to turn up ten minutes before kick off and buy a ticket for £3 but,
The "good old days" were not all good, as editor has said:
Football was more physical but it was not as high quality.
There was no roof on much of stadium.
The food and drink on offer was dire.
The toilets were nasty.
Greater risk of rival fans fighting you (some people liked that though!)
View when standing was awful if you were under six foot tall.
Much less games were on tv. Now if you miss a game, you can at least see the goals on tv or youtube.
Internet ticket booking has evened out chances for fans who cannot get time off work to queue for tickets for cup replays etc.
As for HENRY, he cared 100% until his last season, when something was bugging him, and injuries prevented him tracking back to help defence after a sprint, because he did do this earlier in his career, and win the tackle.
The "good old days" were not all good, as editor has said:
Football was more physical but it was not as high quality.
There was no roof on much of stadium.
The food and drink on offer was dire.
The toilets were nasty.
Greater risk of rival fans fighting you (some people liked that though!)
View when standing was awful if you were under six foot tall.
Much less games were on tv. Now if you miss a game, you can at least see the goals on tv or youtube.
Internet ticket booking has evened out chances for fans who cannot get time off work to queue for tickets for cup replays etc.
As for HENRY, he cared 100% until his last season, when something was bugging him, and injuries prevented him tracking back to help defence after a sprint, because he did do this earlier in his career, and win the tackle.
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Cus Geezer
- Posts: 1869
- Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 6:09 pm
I'm not quite sure what you are getting at here.Look at the wholesale adoption of foreign influence without question and in there you will find the death of something that was ours, no one else’s, right or wrong, good or bad it stemmed from the people of this country.
What is the 'foreign influence'?
Wenger? - the best ever manager
Henry? - the best ever player
the shareholders (if so you have a point)
the fans? - don't really mind so much as long as the place doesn't kow-tow to tourists, but there have been more than enough English tourists at Arsenal over the last few years.
As for the 'piss stained' terraces - I doubt many who come up with that one ever stood on them - I've never seen anyone piss on a terrace.
The violence - hardly ever saw any and certainly never felt effected by any such thing.
At the end of the day it's a lot like life - something things are better than they used to be, somethings worse.
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I Hate Hleb
- Posts: 18632
- Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 3:36 pm
- Location: London
THE AUTHOR IS BEING A BIT OF A DRAMA QUEEN IF YOU ASK ME. 
WHY THIS SEASON, AND NOT LAST? OR THE ONE BEFORE THAT? OR INDEED ANY SEASON IN THE PAST 15 OR SO YEARS,WHEN THE CHANGE HE COMPLAINS ABOUT WAS ACTUALLY HAPPENING?
IF THE AUTHOR IS BEING TRUTHFUL I'M GENUINELY SORRY THAT HE HAS COME TO THAT DECISION. BUT I PERSONALLY FIND IT HARD TO BELIEVE THIS DISILLUSIONMENT WITH FOOTBALL ONLY REALLY HIT HIM ON SATURDAY - DESPITE THE PERFORMANCE BEING TRUELY SHOCKING. 
WHY THIS SEASON, AND NOT LAST? OR THE ONE BEFORE THAT? OR INDEED ANY SEASON IN THE PAST 15 OR SO YEARS,WHEN THE CHANGE HE COMPLAINS ABOUT WAS ACTUALLY HAPPENING?
IF THE AUTHOR IS BEING TRUTHFUL I'M GENUINELY SORRY THAT HE HAS COME TO THAT DECISION. BUT I PERSONALLY FIND IT HARD TO BELIEVE THIS DISILLUSIONMENT WITH FOOTBALL ONLY REALLY HIT HIM ON SATURDAY - DESPITE THE PERFORMANCE BEING TRUELY SHOCKING.
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QuartzGooner
- Posts: 14474
- Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:49 pm
- Location: London
PEE ON TERRACES IN 1980'S
I SAW PEE ON TERRACES.
Spurs away 1987. The League Cup semi, second leg, Sunday afternoon, Park Lane away fans end.
Remember how the toilets were on your right as you came in? so you basically peed as you entered, or forever held your piece.
I had the misfortune to stand next to "Fat Micky", a bit of a charactr and a right grob known to a few less than salubrious characters.
Five mins before kick off he tells me he needs a piss.
Being a fat dirty slob, he pees all over the leg of his mate next to him.
I got out of the way.
His "mate" is a weird weak character who complains but still is his friend.
Then "Fat Micky" grabs my Arsenal banner, and wips his leg with it, saturating it in piss.
I get into an argument but seeing as Micky is ten stone heavier than me I refrain from hitting him.
Never stood near him again though. Moved well away at the semi replay later that week!
Used to be a lot of pee rolling down terraces at Wembley too for England games...one Brazil game in late eighties there was floods of it.
Spurs away 1987. The League Cup semi, second leg, Sunday afternoon, Park Lane away fans end.
Remember how the toilets were on your right as you came in? so you basically peed as you entered, or forever held your piece.
I had the misfortune to stand next to "Fat Micky", a bit of a charactr and a right grob known to a few less than salubrious characters.
Five mins before kick off he tells me he needs a piss.
Being a fat dirty slob, he pees all over the leg of his mate next to him.
I got out of the way.
His "mate" is a weird weak character who complains but still is his friend.
Then "Fat Micky" grabs my Arsenal banner, and wips his leg with it, saturating it in piss.
I get into an argument but seeing as Micky is ten stone heavier than me I refrain from hitting him.
Never stood near him again though. Moved well away at the semi replay later that week!
Used to be a lot of pee rolling down terraces at Wembley too for England games...one Brazil game in late eighties there was floods of it.
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Gooneroonie
- Posts: 257
- Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:33 pm
- Location: Islington / Dublin
How old are you? - I find your comments calling a true Gooner a "drama queen" as insulting. It obviously isn't a decison that was made after the utd game, or even really this season, but one that has been building up over many years of clubs taking the piss out of fans. It was obviously not an easy decision for him so I think you should try a bit harder to understand without rolling eyes, etc.I Hate Hleb wrote:THE AUTHOR IS BEING A BIT OF A DRAMA QUEEN IF YOU ASK ME.
WHY THIS SEASON, AND NOT LAST? OR THE ONE BEFORE THAT? OR INDEED ANY SEASON IN THE PAST 15 OR SO YEARS,WHEN THE CHANGE HE COMPLAINS ABOUT WAS ACTUALLY HAPPENING?
IF THE AUTHOR IS BEING TRUTHFUL I'M GENUINELY SORRY THAT HE HAS COME TO THAT DECISION. BUT I PERSONALLY FIND IT HARD TO BELIEVE THIS DISILLUSIONMENT WITH FOOTBALL ONLY REALLY HIT HIM ON SATURDAY - DESPITE THE PERFORMANCE BEING TRUELY SHOCKING.
I remember standing on the Clock end in the early eighties in the pissing rain watching crap football under crap managers(Neill and Howe) never looking like winning the league.Good old days do me a fcuking favour.I love Arsenal but dont tell me it was a pleasure watching them in the dark days.It was hell
We now have a World class manager whose team plays the best football in the world in the best stadium in Europe
When was the last time you watched a home game getting soaking wet for 90 minutes?.Yeah great fun
These are the Glory days for our club, Who wants to go back to the dark ages?
We now have a World class manager whose team plays the best football in the world in the best stadium in Europe
When was the last time you watched a home game getting soaking wet for 90 minutes?.Yeah great fun
These are the Glory days for our club, Who wants to go back to the dark ages?
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I Hate Hleb
- Posts: 18632
- Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 3:36 pm
- Location: London
Gooneroonie wrote:I Hate Hleb wrote:THE AUTHOR IS BEING A BIT OF A DRAMA QUEEN IF YOU ASK ME.
WHY THIS SEASON, AND NOT LAST? OR THE ONE BEFORE THAT? OR INDEED ANY SEASON IN THE PAST 15 OR SO YEARS,WHEN THE CHANGE HE COMPLAINS ABOUT WAS ACTUALLY HAPPENING?
IF THE AUTHOR IS BEING TRUTHFUL I'M GENUINELY SORRY THAT HE HAS COME TO THAT DECISION. BUT I PERSONALLY FIND IT HARD TO BELIEVE THIS DISILLUSIONMENT WITH FOOTBALL ONLY REALLY HIT HIM ON SATURDAY - DESPITE THE PERFORMANCE BEING TRUELY SHOCKING.WHAT HAS MY AGE THAT GOT TO DO WITH ANYTHING?Gooneroonie wrote:..How old are you? - I find your comments calling a true Gooner a "drama queen" as insulting. It was obviously not an easy decision for him so I think you should try a bit harder to understand without rolling eyes, etc.
Gooneroonie wrote:It obviously isn't a decison that was made after the utd game, or even really this season, but one that has been building up over many years of clubs taking the piss out of fans.:
YOU DON'T KNOW THAT FOR SURE EITHER. HOWEVER, LET'S SAY IT'S TRUE, THEN WHY DID HE WAIT UNTIL AFTER SATURDAY'S DEFEAT AND WHEN FELLOW GOONERS WERE GOING TO BE PISSED OFF ANYWAY? YOU TELLING ME THERE HAVEN'T BEEN OCCASSIONS IN THE PAST WHEN HE COULD HAVE MADE SUCH A PRINCIPLED MOVE? THE CREATION OF THE PREMIER LEAGUE AND THE SUPPOSED 'SELL-OUT' TO SKY; THE DISMANTLING OF THE OLD NORTH BANK; THE FOOTBALL PLAYED DURING THE LATTER PERIOD OF GEORGE GRAHAM OR THE G.G. BUNG AFFAIR; NUMEROUS INCREASES IN TICKET PRICES; EVEN THE MOVE FROM HIGHBURY TO ASHBURTON, FOR EXAMPLE?
EVEN THEN, WHY WOULD YOU GO PUBLICISING IT ON A FANS FORUM? PERHAPS HE WAS SEEKING ATTENTION AND A REACTION?
BEARING ALL THAT IN MIND, I STILL STAND BY MY PREVIOUS ACCUSATION. BY THE WAY, IF YOU FIND SOMETHING AS TAME AND TONGUE-IN-CHEEK AS CALLING SOMEONE A DRAMA QUEEN INSULTING, I WOULD SUGGEST YOU PROBABLY NEED TO TRY GETTING OUT A BIT MORE OFTEN!
