As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
LDB wrote:How many people connected to Arsenal over the past 6 years have been labouring under the certainty that success was just around the corner? The vast vast vast majority. And you would expect the board to fly in the face of this and sack the man just because he isn't emptying their coffers? What can you do with an argument like that...
The questions is who created that certainty. I would remind you thatan AST member actyually asked Ivan Gizidis whther the Board's indispuatbly false statments about the money available to the manager from 2005-2007 did not undermine Manager and unfairly make him the target for illegitimate criticism and Mr. Gazidis very deliberately avoiding answering his actual question at all. I would in fact suggest the Bioard have mis-led everyone at Arsenal including all of us in this regard.
Indeed you said it has been six years of labouring under this you called it certainty and I will call it grand illusion? The point is well, would you let your girlfriend tell you it wasn't what it looked like six times? Imena fool me once shame on foll me twice shame on me. What happens after the sixth time, the rift in the time -space continuum tears open and the world ends?
Seriously it all goes back to your earlier point if the Board had genuine ambitions beyond simply finishing in the top four they would let themselves be lied to or fooled(I'm sensing that is your implication here)six times. So again how has this happened then?
LDB wrote:Btw, after reading the first page i was going to advise you not to stray from your comfort zone of the arsenal board ever again. Luckily you didnt even need that advice in the end
I am guessing you're just upset about how limited your role was
BTW what is the story with your siggy - just an advert with the cast or some Shaun of the Dead-meets-MirrorBall deal
olgitgooner wrote:I do believe this thread has been hijacked!
Okay, Take Me The Fuck to Trophyland or I'll Cancel My Season Ticket and Blow Every Fucker To Kingdom Come!
Is that what you meant Olgit .....after my initial post on page 1 of this thread I promised my self I wouldn't return, but accidentally clicked on the thread by mistake...and now I can't find my way out...it's kind of like one of them country mansion mazes at night time......only this is worse.
LDB wrote:Our old board (that no longer exists btw) were a conservative bunch nobody is disputing that. They had two minimum requirements of wenger which if met, his job was secure. Those two requirements were to keep the fans happy and to keep us in the champions league. He has achieved this over the past 6 years no question about it.
On your first point I would go even further and suggest they are conservative in the same way as legislators who isnsist we mucst cut programs to heklp porr and workiing-class people to cut budget deficits but should never raise taxes on weathier people who don't need or use those programs and would not literally struggle to survive withouth those programs or a little bit of money. It's the same phony conservatism that portarys millionaires and bearing greater burdens in our society than people who are not simply so they may be even weathier. I'll comment on the second part below
What?
Im talking about conservative in its classical sense ie to conserve, to be cautious. Im not talking about big C political Conservatism and i really dont see what point you're trying to make here.
LDB wrote:I dont buy into the idea that this was the height of their ambition or interest, just that in order to remove such a renowned, respected and formerly successful manager we would have to drop below this point to spark the codgers into action.
These two points completely and utterly contradict one another, LDB. If they had higher ambitions as you suggest they would not be ready or willing to wait for the exact opposite to happen to take action. I would suggest this is how it should be but they would behave more like Real Madrid's Board if they had higher ambitions for us on the pitch than they in fact have shown they do The simple fact is that if our ambition was to do better than we have we wouldn't wait to do worse than our ambitions then we have to address the failure to do better.
No because in their minds to be ambitious and to win trophies for Arsenal was to trust Arsene Wenger to see through his project despite some initial deterioration of results from the lofty highs of the early-mid noughties. Why? Because the man had unprecedented success in his first 8 years at the club so what reason was there not to trust him? The board werent alone in thinking this was the right course and that Wenger would deliver, and they still arent albeit they are just about beginning to dwindle in numbers.
LDB wrote:How many people connected to Arsenal over the past 6 years have been labouring under the certainty that success was just around the corner? The vast vast vast majority. And you would expect the board to fly in the face of this and sack the man just because he isn't emptying their coffers? What can you do with an argument like that...
The questions is who created that certainty. I would remind you thatan AST member actyually asked Ivan Gizidis whther the Board's indispuatbly false statments about the money available to the manager from 2005-2007 did not undermine Manager and unfairly make him the target for illegitimate criticism and Mr. Gazidis very deliberately avoiding answering his actual question at all. I would in fact suggest the Bioard have mis-led everyone at Arsenal including all of us in this regard.
Indeed you said it has been six years of labouring under this you called it certainty and I will call it grand illusion? The point is well, would you let your girlfriend tell you it wasn't what it looked like six times? Imena fool me once shame on foll me twice shame on me. What happens after the sixth time, the rift in the time -space continuum tears open and the world ends?
Seriously it all goes back to your earlier point if the Board had genuine ambitions beyond simply finishing in the top four they would let themselves be lied to or fooled(I'm sensing that is your implication here)six times. So again how has this happened then?
I would call it grand illusion also but my point is that it was a delusion held by the vast majority of people (ie fans) connected to the club and therefore to expect p-diddy hillwood, lord of the chips & co to take on the wenger empire, even if they had wanted to, is simply unrealistic.
I dont think they were lied to, i think Wenger geniuinely believed that his project would deliver and there there were some promising signs that it would but in sport there are no guarantees and needless to say he was/is spectacularly wrong. You can bleat as much as you like but this is the simple truth: Wenger got it wrong.
LDB wrote: What?Im talking about conservative in its classical sense ie to conserve, to be cautious. Im not talking about big C political Conservatism and i really dont see what point you're trying to make here.
Agreed. But the point is that the same mentality poisoning Capital C Conservatism as a political movement can poison small c conservatism as a business philosophy. That is to say advocating mi9nimizing invest,mnet to maxiximize personal profit and pretending the policy is anything but what itr actually is - plain and simple greed in action.
The simple truth is given how ltlle the Board collectively invested in its holdings in the club would selling off at 4K or 5K or even 7 K have really hurt anyone of these indivilduals? Since they were millionaires or comfortbaly well oof at worst without cashing in would not selling at all have hurt them or selling to a group that coulcn't pay nearly as much but they knew could actually pay the money upfront withpout borrowing for it, and could tell us themselves unhesitatingly of their love for Arsenal rather than leave it to their spokesmeman to assure us that he realizes that in fact we are Arsenal and that he in fact does kinda love the club- at least enough to have someone us tell us that.
LDB wrote:I No because in their minds to be ambitious and to win trophies for Arsenal was to trust Arsene Wenger to see through his project despite some initial deterioration of results from the lofty highs of the early-mid noughties. Why? Because the man had unprecedented success in his first 8 years at the club so what reason was there not to trust him? The board werent alone in thinking this was the right course and that Wenger would deliver, and they still arent albeit they are just about beginning to dwindle in numbers.
Yes they just blindly trusted the first manager they hired after sacking George Graham burned them and too some of their money for himself ...sure. Better still they never once questioned the changes that risked the value of their investment potentially even though we all did. Sure. I have some prime swampland available for sale too, you know.How many acres shall I put you down for? Yes multi-millionaire investors simply let some football manger control their investment. That's rubbish. You can't be as successful as the Board was in driving the club's share price up by oh 800% since 2004 or so and have no control over or involvement in the investment in the football tream or no awareness of how the investment was made and why. Indeed by your logic if Arsene Wenger disappeared from the planet today a club worth close to a billion pounds with over 100 million pounds in profits banked away would simply cease to exist by your reasononing
Last edited by USMartin on Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ive tried to speed read this thread and to be honest found it fucking hard going. Just need to ask..... Has Marty listed any evidence that he promised 4 weeks ago to back up his obsession about the board?
flash gunner wrote:Ive tried to speed read this thread and to be honest found it fucking hard going. Just need to ask..... Has Marty listed any evidence that he promised 4 weeks ago to back up his obsession about the board?
LDB wrote:How many people connected to Arsenal over the past 6 years have been labouring under the certainty that success was just around the corner? The vast vast vast majority. And you would expect the board to fly in the face of this and sack the man just because he isn't emptying their coffers? What can you do with an argument like that...
The questions is who created that certainty. I would remind you thatan AST member actyually asked Ivan Gizidis whther the Board's indispuatbly false statments about the money available to the manager from 2005-2007 did not undermine Manager and unfairly make him the target for illegitimate criticism and Mr. Gazidis very deliberately avoiding answering his actual question at all. I would in fact suggest the Bioard have mis-led everyone at Arsenal including all of us in this regard.
Indeed you said it has been six years of labouring under this you called it certainty and I will call it grand illusion? The point is well, would you let your girlfriend tell you it wasn't what it looked like six times? Imena fool me once shame on foll me twice shame on me. What happens after the sixth time, the rift in the time -space continuum tears open and the world ends?
Seriously it all goes back to your earlier point if the Board had genuine ambitions beyond simply finishing in the top four they would let themselves be lied to or fooled(I'm sensing that is your implication here)six times. So again how has this happened then?
I would call it grand illusion also but my point is that it was a delusion held by the vast majority of people (ie fans) connected to the club and therefore to expect p-diddy hillwood, lord of the chips & co to take on the wenger empire, even if they had wanted to, is simply unrealistic.
I dont think they were lied to, i think Wenger geniuinely believed that his project would deliver and there there were some promising signs that it would but in sport there are no guarantees and needless to say he was/is spectacularly wrong. You can bleat as much as you like but this is the simple truth: Wenger got it wrong.
And we could see all of the last point certainly as early as 2008 and the 2008-2009 season, please remind again - what year is this and what season are we entering?
Pleaseif If this was anything but the beloved Board practicing "the Arsenal Way" you never would buy their crap or your own excuses and rationales for it for that matter. You wouldn't let anyone else get away with telling you such ridiculous explanations for anything else really.
You and many other Gooners sound like guys who are ignoring everyone warning them that their girlfriend is cheating on them - includnig ignoring or rationalizing things they see themselves that might suggest the same thing. How many times do you think the Board would let themselves be lied to or told its not what it looks like? Ask George Graham. Of cousrse the fact that he was taking money from the Board rather than helping them make more money is ,I'm sure, a completely irrelevant distiinction in either instance.
Peeman wrote:Martin I'll keep this short and sweet buddy
If Wenger is the victim in all this - a man with all these morals and honour
Why would he not expose the board for what they are vis a vis Martin O'Neill, Alan Curbishley.
I'll keep this short and sweet as well - if the Board wanted more money spent for the team to win things why have't they even said so to him or sacked him for refusing again and again for six years?
I'll just add both questions are valid - the problem is we don't seem willing to actually ask either question and many certainly are not willing to ask the second question at all of the Board, who would ultimately decide how we move forward no matter what answer is in fact correct.
flash gunner wrote:Ive tried to speed read this thread and to be honest found it fucking hard going. Just need to ask..... Has Marty listed any evidence that he promised 4 weeks ago to back up his obsession about the board?
Peeman wrote:Martin I'll keep this short and sweet buddy
If Wenger is the victim in all this - a man with all these morals and honour
Why would he not expose the board for what they are vis a vis Martin O'Neill, Alan Curbishley.
I'll keep this short and sweet as well - if the Board wanted more money spent for the team to win things why have't they even said so to him or sacked him for refusing again and again for six years?
I'll just add both questions are valid - the problem is we don't seem willing to actually ask either question and many certainly are not willing to ask the second question at all of the Board, who would ultimately decide how we move forward no matter what answer is in fact correct.
Jesus Wept!
Short and sweet.
The Board and Arsene Wenger were in it together.
The End!!!
FFS!
NO. there was nothing to be
in on together if the Board hadn't decided to pursue its own self interest . That distinction does matter here. Trying to excuse the Board in frankly inexcusable if they in fact did this, as the facts we all know which have already been presented here on more than one occasion suggest., and certainly far more evidence far more often than the Board's defenders altogerther have even tried to present because they know how poor a csse they have.
By your logic anyone who participated in any way in any part of the Holocuast or was aware of the camps should have been imprisioed or executed, and it was only partly down to the people who originated these mad racist ideas and policies to deal with them. Then again knowing your thoughts at times you might just up and agree with that
Ooops. Keeping in the scheme of things, and not wanting to appear as if I've lost it, I'll try again.
Judge Babu: So, after reading the closing arguments from the prosecution and defence I find Danny and Pete guilty of cuntlinery, and I sentence the accused to be hanged by the neck until dead.
Arsene, you are found guilty of aiding and abetting cuntlinery, but because of the deviousness of your crime, and the callous nature with which you chose to try and hide your involvement, you are sentenced to be punished by having the sum total of your 'transfer savings' in the past 5 years converted into pound coins, and to have them inserted rectally until you are dead.
flash gunner wrote:Ive tried to speed read this thread and to be honest found it fucking hard going. Just need to ask..... Has Marty listed any evidence that he promised 4 weeks ago to back up his obsession about the board?
no, yet he still expects everyone to believe him and stop criticising wenger. quite frankly I think there is a very small possibility he is right but until then needs to stop with the thread hijacking and word twisting . He has completely ruined this forum and now you see people on here posting only to wind him up.
.....after my initial post on page 1 of this thread I promised my self I wouldn't return, but accidentally clicked on the thread by mistake...and now I can't find my way out...it's kind of like one of them country mansion mazes at night time......only this is worse. 
