COPS in Highbury (BADDD BOYS! Whatcha Gon' DO?)

[USMartin]

Ive tried to speed read this thread and to be honest found it fucking hard going. Just need to ask..... Has Marty listed any evidence that he promised 4 weeks ago to back up his obsession about the board?

I'll take the silence for Marty as a NO then

Why worry? It's a no to you no matter what. The truth has never mattered to you in this and it never will unless its what you want to believe.

[flash gunner]

Ive tried to speed read this thread and to be honest found it fucking hard going. Just need to ask..... Has Marty listed any evidence that he promised 4 weeks ago to back up his obsession about the board?

no, yet he still expects everyone to believe him and stop criticising wenger. quite frankly I think there is a very small possibility he is right but until then needs to stop with the thread hijacking and word twisting . He has completely ruined this forum and now you see people on here posting only to wind him up.

Agreed mate. The sooner he goes the better

[Babu]

NO. there was nothing to be
in on together if the Board hadn't decided to pursue its own self interest . That distinction does matter here. Trying to excuse the Board in frankly inexcusable if they in fact did this, as the facts we all know which have already been presented here on more than one occasion suggest., and certainly far more evidence far more often than the Board's defenders altogerther have even tried to present because they know how poor a csse they have.

By your logic anyone who participated in any way in any part of the Holocuast or was aware of the camps should have been imprisioed or executed, and it was only partly down to the people who originated these mad racist ideas and policies to deal with them. Then again knowing your thoughts at times you might just up and agree with that

1st paragraph: Both guilty. Wenger agreed to the stadium move, knowing full well that he would get less money to spend.The Board must have made it clear to Wenger. Then both the Board and Wenger continually lied and deceived the fans.

Wenger saw a great chance to make a name for himself as one of the greatest managers of all time with his 'youth project', and knew that he wouldn't be sacked if he got 4th place and the CL qualification. So total and utter complicity.

2nd paragraph: You know that in my humble opinion after World War 2 germany should have been properly divided between the allies. Every collaborator, including the french, should have been put in the camps, and the german country, language, culture, food and flag would have been banned forever.

[USMartin]

1st paragraph: Both guilty. Wenger agreed to the stadium move, knowing full well that he would get less money to spend.The Board must have made it clear to Wenger. Then both the Board and Wenger continually lied and deceived the fans.

Wenger saw a great chance to make a name for himself as one of the greatest managers of all time with his 'youth project', and knew that he wouldn't be sacked if he got 4th place and the CL qualification. So total and utter complicity.

Both guilty - certainly. Both equally guilty of the same offence? Not in a milliion years. The problem is too mayn would take what is a correct view that Arsene Wenger shares some complicity in this and will take it out opf context and stretch it well beyond the catual fcats behing that contention to deliberately mis-lead others and protetc the Board's innocence as well as their own failure to react to the situation in a timely manner that would have been in the club's better or best interests,.

Again he would have had no reason to act as he did if he was not either madtaed or strongly encouraged to do so, and since histtor shows there was no effort to do this until we decided to borrow 120 million to redevelop Highbury and disrupted our cash flow and necessitated cutting back investment in the team, And that was entriely the Board's decision alone and entirely has benefitted the Board alone.

That distinction matters.

Babu the problem there is you are ignoring the logical conclusion that if the Board had instructed him to spend another 20-50 million GBP a year from 2005 that he would have done that too.. I think too many people confuse the notion that Arsene Wnegr shares some resposbility with him bearing all of it on their own and do so very deliberately if you give them even the opening you offer here.

2nd paragraph: You know that in my humble opinion after World War 2 germany should have been properly divided between the allies. Every collaborator, including the french, should have been put in the camps, and the german country, language, culture, food and flag would have been banned forever.

Of course but I figured you should make that clear for yourself

[Babu]

Both guilty - certainly.

That'll do me, Martin. Finally!

[Babu]

Both guilty - certainly. Both equally guilty of the same offence? Not in a milliion years.

Oh! That'll teach me to skim your posts!

[USMartin]

Both guilty - certainly.

That'll do me, Martin. Finally!

Sorry Babu but she'd already be headed for me...the only people that does is the Board who hide behind thast notion and will do so as long as they can since it's worked so well so far.


But seriously what would conclude if the Board voted dividends be paid out to shareholders now so Stan Kreonke could poay for the financing of his takeoverJust asking what you would conclude then...

[Henry Norris 1913]

Martin I still don't get your main point - you claim the board have held money back from AW yet I practically proved the spending on players since DD left is roughly the same , in fact in 08/09 we signed Samir Nasri for £12m and Aaron Ramsey for £5m, thats £17m, not including the massive fee paid out for Arshavin in Feb '09. This proves that when 4th spot looks in doubt we can throw the cash around like anyone .
After a dissapointing 00/01 campaign how much did we spend on Sol, Inamoto, Van Bronkhorst? It certainly doesn't exceed the total for 08/09 and even if it did it wouldn't prove anything.

[AFCWozza]

Martin I still don't get your main point - you claim the board have held money back from AW yet I practically proved the spending on players since DD left is roughly the same , in fact in 08/09 we signed Samir Nasri for £12m and Aaron Ramsey for £5m, thats £17m, not including the massive fee paid out for Arshavin in Feb '09. This proves that when 4th spot looks in doubt we can throw the cash around like anyone .
After a dissapointing 00/01 campaign how much did we spend on Sol, Inamoto, Van Bronkhorst? It certainly doesn't exceed the total for 08/09 and even if it did it wouldn't prove anything.

But Henry mate, you have to take into account that the departures of Hleb (£12m) Gilberto (£1m) and J.Hoyte (£3m) effectivly covered the Ramsey and Nasri signings, and the season before that as a club we recouped over £31m by selling Henry, Ljungberg, Reyes, Aliadiere and Muamba. He has only really spent what he has recouped.

[Babu]

Both guilty - certainly. Both equally guilty of the same offence? Not in a milliion years. The problem is too mayn would take what is a correct view that Arsene Wenger shares some complicity in this and will take it out opf context and stretch it well beyond the catual fcats behing that contention to deliberately mis-lead others and protetc the Board's innocence as well as their own failure to react to the situation in a timely manner that would have been in the club's better or best interests,.

Again he would have had no reason to act as he did if he was not either madtaed or strongly encouraged to do so, and since histtor shows there was no effort to do this until we decided to borrow 120 million to redevelop Highbury and disrupted our cash flow and necessitated cutting back investment in the team, And that was entriely the Board's decision alone and entirely has benefitted the Board alone.

That distinction matters.

Babu the problem there is you are ignoring the logical conclusion that if the Board had instructed him to spend another 20-50 million GBP a year from 2005 that he would have done that too.. I think too many people confuse the notion that Arsene Wnegr shares some resposbility with him bearing all of it on their own and do so very deliberately if you give them even the opening you offer here.

Of course I understand what you're saying, Martin. But then I have heard it a few times.

I don't agree with the £120m to develop Highbury though, as I would have done that as well if I was a member of the Board, as it seemed the logical thing to do at the time, imo. Also it belonged to The Arsenal FC, and was sacred ground, so surely it would have hurt anyone who loved The Arsenal to sell it to someone else.

As I say, I would also have kept it and redeveloped it myself. At the time they had no way of knowing about the financial crisis just round the corner and I think everyone at that time would have done the same. There was money to be made in the project. Nothing wrong with that.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Just a quick 'NO' will do!



OK, the £20-50m a year from 2005 onwards theory.

I firmly believe that Wenger saw a way to write his name in the History books, and not just as a good manager, but as the best manager. He wanted to build his own team of unknown promising youngsters who would dominate the World of Football for years to come.

Just like I do on the Playstation! And anyone who plays football on a games console will tell you that is the ultimate achievement. At the moment I am taking Dagenham and Redbridge to the Champions League Final 2021 on 'legendary' mode with 'autosave' on.

It's relatively easy to build a great team with loads of cash, or if you 'cheat' and re-set, or you chose a rich team, or you buy players whose contract has finished and are a 'free agent' and then you sell them on in the same window, so getting loads of cash. Then you get the cash, build the Stadium up by investing in the Stadium Manager, and in a few seasons you have enough money to buy the promising youngsters available, and you can SEE that they will 100% definitely improve and become World Class, so you end up with the best team, with the best players, and the most money.

Anyway, enough about PS.

Wenger wanted to do it in France, and failed. Due to bribery from OM, yes, but also because it is bloody difficult and quite frankly not fair to the fans who have to put up with the transition period and the lies that have to be told to appease the fans if it does not work, or doesn't work as quickly as it should.

Wenger quite clearly went along with this plan of the Board's, because he also had an agenda: to make himself the best manager ever.

OK, would have been nice ( very nice ) if he had managed it, but the problems are many:

1) you don't know if the promising youngsters are really going to achieve anything...look at Denilson
2) You are not only playing against the console, you are also playing against real people with real money who will try and fuck it up for you...look at chelsea/citeh/etc
3) There are real fans involved who will feel cheated if you lie to them continually, and who will eventually not bother coming
4) 101 other reasons.

Wenger knew what he was doing when he agreed to stopping his spending.

He is an extremely selfish, egotistical madman, who cares nothing about the fans, but just wants the glory for himself.

If he wanted to he could have bought ready-made players, like he did with his first two great teams, but then the glory is not his alone. I've gone over this before. 1st team, GG's defence, DB, and a couple of his players. 2nd team - big french stars, on big money.

Both Wenger and the Old Board are guilty of leaving The Arsenal in the state we are now in. FACT! For slightly different reasons, but both for selfish reasons, with no thought to the fans, and certainly no 'custodians of the club' mantality at all.

Both are guilty. Both should have to leave.

Sadly the old Board have already cleaned up and gone home, and I seriously believe that Wenger will be gone pretty soon, and he will be seen by most as a 'lucky' manager because of the bloody disaster that he left behind, which is 'ALL HIS OWN WORK'.

[Babu]

Martin I still don't get your main point - you claim the board have held money back from AW yet I practically proved the spending on players since DD left is roughly the same , in fact in 08/09 we signed Samir Nasri for £12m and Aaron Ramsey for £5m, thats £17m, not including the massive fee paid out for Arshavin in Feb '09. This proves that when 4th spot looks in doubt we can throw the cash around like anyone .
After a dissapointing 00/01 campaign how much did we spend on Sol, Inamoto, Van Bronkhorst? It certainly doesn't exceed the total for 08/09 and even if it did it wouldn't prove anything.

But Henry mate, you have to take into account that the departures of Hleb (£12m) Gilberto (£1m) and J.Hoyte (£3m) effectivly covered the Ramsey and Nasri signings, and the season before that as a club we recouped over £31m by selling Henry, Ljungberg, Reyes, Aliadiere and Muamba. He has only really spent what he has recouped.

Yes, he's only spent what he's received for players for a few years now, quite clearly. And at the moment he still hasn't spent the Ade and Kolo money, although it's early days as yet. Transfer window doesn't shut for over 6 weeks.

What is clearly a FACT though is that the Board have told everyone that wants to listen that Wenger has cash to spend.

2007 - September. Just after the transfer window closed, in September,

but nevertheless....

CLICK ON THIS...
Arsene Wenger given £70m to spend as profits rise

"I think we are in a very good position," Mr Edelman said. "Clearly, Arsene's performance and the team's performance on the pitch has been outstanding, obviously backed up by our very strong financial position.

"We gave Arsene a budget in the summer and he didn't even spend all of it on transfers and, hopefully, we'll be able to carry that forward into future years.

"We have got plenty of financial firepower to make the transfers Arsene wants to make. We had over £70 million of cash at the end of the year, and if Arsene wants to spend that money we will make it available."

[USMartin]

Martin I still don't get your main point - you claim the board have held money back from AW yet I practically proved the spending on players since DD left is roughly the same , in fact in 08/09 we signed Samir Nasri for £12m and Aaron Ramsey for £5m, thats £17m, not including the massive fee paid out for Arshavin in Feb '09. This proves that when 4th spot looks in doubt we can throw the cash around like anyone .
After a dissapointing 00/01 campaign how much did we spend on Sol, Inamoto, Van Bronkhorst? It certainly doesn't exceed the total for 08/09 and even if it did it wouldn't prove anything.

Credit for using the term "practically proved" ? It's a fairly resonable point but in the end even that really isn't true Henry.

First off you ignore net spending and its importance here - look at the summer of 2003 the only player of anynote brought in was Jens Lehmann for 1 million GBP. I am sure some people screamed how can we only spend 1 million after losing the title back to the manc *word censored*? I for one never did because I was fairly confident we would reclaim the League and fairly easiily before the season and was absolutely certain we would before the end of September. We didn't need to spend big to overtake United so why spend big then? (That years we did ultimately but only after signing Jose Reyes in that January window that is so impossible to work in.

In other words the net spending shows whether you investing acquiring quality and keeping quality as well. In 2001 our Net spend was 19 million as opposed to 16 million in 2008-2009. Now you may say that's not much but look at the depatures, chiefly Gilberto Silva , as well as the free transfers of Mathieu Flamini. and even Alex Hleb (yes I hated him too, Hlebby) Hand on heart do you swear we invested properly in replacing thiose players that year?

[USMartin]

Oh and the players who left in the summer of 01 - Stefan Malz, Guy Demel and Sylvinho. I'd say we didn't give up quite as much that summer or fail to replace any of the quality we lost in 2001.

[USMartin]

What a girly man Mr. Edelman is -and you are for taking his word babu. Show some real balls, some real ambition like this bloke

http://gunnerblog.com/?p=772

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=602658

As if you needed any futher confirmation that we’re absolutely minted, read this quote from Danny Fiszman at a supporters representatives’ meeting with the board:

“We are in a very strong financial situation and if he [Arsene] wanted to spend £100m, he could. he decides whether a players fee and salary is worth it. It is his decision and his decision only.â€

[HashKads]

Where is the presentation of evidence?