As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
USMartin wrote: Do you think nothing would have happened any differently even if the Board had made the same kind investment in the team after 2005 as before 2005?
In this case a simple yes or no will in fact do.
Yes.
Yes, I think nothing would have been done differently.
The transfers in and out have been Wenger's invention, his great plan. There has always been money available, but Wenger has chosen not to spend it.
It is his little ego trip, and we have to go along with it, whether we like it or not.
We will have the proof end of August, I guess. As of now, it's hard to tell whether our 'transfer dealings' have changed in any way at all from the last few years now that Kroenke is 'in control'. Still looks the same ( all talk - no action ) but who knows. A few weeks to go, and probably some major 'outs' to compensate for. If the transfer policy does not change then surely you will have to see that Wenger is in complete control.
So you in fact we would have broken up the Iinvicnibles the same exact way and replaced them with the same exact inadequate players and no one would have said or done anything differently even those who might have objected to this switch in policy?
Very well what definite proof do you have since that seems tom be a standard here to support this conclusion?
I missed that what a shock Qaurtz(as in its no shcok at all) you can excuse them lying to people who trusted them with the club's future. My guess is you just recalculate the deate for the new apaalypse two just like a people with nothing but blind faith just rationalize everything they see to justify that blind faith when it falters against their will.
USMartin wrote:
So you in fact we would have broken up the Iinvicnibles the same exact way and replaced them with the same exact inadequate players and no one would have said or done anything differently even those who might have objected to this switch in policy?
Very well what definite proof do you have since that seems tom be a standard here to support this conclusion?
Definite proof ?!?
Really?
Vague ramblings I can give you:
Wenger wanted to build his own side, to prove that he could do it all alone. He wanted no big stars, he wanted to do everything from A to Z so that it was him that took all the praise.
He's tried to do it before, and he's doing it now.
AGM 2004
Q) One for Mr Wenger. You seem a bit light on central defenders?
A) Wenger : We are not very light as Kolo and Campbell are very solid. I believe that Cygan did well l when he came in. We have young boys like Senderos, who was out for a complete year and he is quite promising. We will find one of two other ones, don’t worry. Overall we have more midfielders and strikers than defenders. We will try to sort that out as we tried to correct that in the summer and it didn’t work. And we will try to correct it in winter.
2004. Two thousand and four!!!
Same same. 'Promising', 'young boys', 'correct it in the winter', etc., etc.
There are absolutely hundreds of examples, Martin.
And yes factual basis. Our mission here shouldn't simply be to come up with reasons that let us sleep better. We should be trying to and wanting to know what is really happening and why. We should be willing to try and put some real numerical pressure on the club to at least recognize that we do not support these actions and policies without exception or question, because no matter whoi any of us believe is to blame for them or who ultimately is in fact our silence does more to let the continue than anything else.
Like I say maybe now the best we can hope for is what is happening at ManU, but the only reason they are getting that from the Glazers is because if the Glazers didn't given them that they would have lost the supporter base almost as a whole.
And remember this when the Glazers took over United was badly beaten third best three of four seasons prior and United supporters were quesrtioning Sir Alex Ferguson who was spending significantly less in those years right before the club was sold and look what has happened since.
The difference is while Stan Kroenke seems a much better personthan all the Glazers put together (they are locusts for me)I'm not sure he can or would invest in giving the supporters the distracton of winning things if it costs more money any more than the Board who sold to him did after 2005.
USMartin wrote:
So you in fact we would have broken up the Iinvicnibles the same exact way and replaced them with the same exact inadequate players and no one would have said or done anything differently even those who might have objected to this switch in policy?
Very well what definite proof do you have since that seems tom be a standard here to support this conclusion?
Definite proof ?!?
Really?
Vague ramblings I can give you:
Wenger wanted to build his own side, to prove that he could do it all alone. He wanted no big stars, he wanted to do everything from A to Z so that it was him that took all the praise.
He's tried to do it before, and he's doing it now.
AGM 2004
Q) One for Mr Wenger. You seem a bit light on central defenders?
A) Wenger : We are not very light as Kolo and Campbell are very solid. I believe that Cygan did well l when he came in. We have young boys like Senderos, who was out for a complete year and he is quite promising. We will find one of two other ones, don’t worry. Overall we have more midfielders and strikers than defenders. We will try to sort that out as we tried to correct that in the summer and it didn’t work. And we will try to correct it in winter.
2004. Two thousand and four!!!
Same same. 'Promising', 'young boys', 'correct it in the winter', etc., etc.
There are absolutely hundreds of examples, Martin.
Really there are.
This proves what Babu? That Mr. Wenger speaks in the same enigmatic tome and alwys has? There is a saying that goes something like actions speak louder than words or some such thing, and I think that applies here very nicely.
So lets look at the actions
1998-2005 - SPENDS 5 million a year in transfer market
Arsenal finish first or second every year.
Three Time Premier League Champions
Four Time FA Cup Winners
Two Time Double Winners
One Time UNDEFEATED Premier League Champions
Better average table position than Manunited
2005-2011 - MAKES 5 million a year in transfer market
Arsenal never finish above thrid
Do not win a single trophy
I think that speaks above anything anyone can say.
USMartin wrote: because no matter who any of us believe is to blame for them or who ultimately is in fact our silence does more to let the continue than anything else.
This I agree with you 100%
We are definitely fucking up at the moment, and not in a small, fairly controllable, one-off, fuck-up kinda way.
We are at the moment fucking up regularly, and fucking up the same way over and over and over again, which is just adding to the fuck-up, making it grow and grow until eventually you will have one incredible fuck-up that will destroy us all.
And yet there are still some that think everything's perfect.
Well, it proves that Wenger had the same ideas then as he has now.
USMartin wrote:
So lets look at the actions
1998-2005 - SPENDS 5 million a year in transfer market
2005-2011 - MAKES 5 million a year in transfer market
Arsenal never finish above thrid
I think that speaks above anything anyone can say.
Plus the New Stadium. Plus increased share prices.
It's Wenger and the ( now ex ) Board.
USMartin wrote:
1998-2005 - SPENDS 5 million a year in transfer market
Arsenal finish first or second every year.
2005-2011 - MAKES 5 million a year in transfer market
Arsenal never finish above thrid
Lack of quality investments, and David Dein no longer with us to make sure the quality actually signs.
Other teams with money, and us not utilising our resources efficiently.
It's not just one or the other, it's quite clearly both of them, Wenger and the Board. In fact I can't see how you can differentiate the two, really I don't.
