Wenger Myths debunked: the great developer of Youth

[Babatunde]

I was having a chat with my mate (ok I was talking to myself in the mirror)...
And we were discussing what an inept manager Wenger has been for seven years and mentioning how the media have these antiquated Wengerspeak myths that are, complete bollocks.

One of my pet hates is the notion that Arsene Wenger is this great developer of Youth. I'll keep this short: that is complete bollocks. He isn't.

I believe it is telling that when discussing Wenger success stories with young players over the recent past, AKBs often immediately tend to point towards Henry and Vieira, who were signed in a different century and were known players.

In the past seven years, can anybody please name a single young player that Arsene Wenger has brought through and successfully developed?

I would go as far as to say that in his whole Arsenal tenure, in terms of young players he can take credit for developing and bringing through we can point to: Ashley Cole (left Arsenal for money and gave up on Wenger), and Kolo Toure because he needed development. Please correct me if I am forgetting anybody else but these are the only names I can think of? Most recently Jack Wilshere has emerged and is looking excellent - but that is three players in approaching sixteen years. That's incredibly poor for a man whose reputation is apparently based on givign youth a chance.

More alarming is if you look at recent evidence. Young players are deserting Wenger in droves because they complain of not being given a chance or, become sick of playing under an unambitious manager who stunts their careers. Bendtner is a young player who left because he cannot get a game ahead of some much older, far more useless French crap (Chamak. And yes he is French). Havard Nordveit and Rui Fonte all trumpeted and both moved on. Clichy was a monumental failure. Lansbury should be given a go but since he doesn't speak French will never get the chances Diaby does.

Remember, Ash Cole was almost flogged to Palace until Wenger discovered his passport was dodgy. I am not trying to urinate all over Wenger's legacy, just stating facts.

The players he is often credited with 'developing' are also highly dubious and in some instances, laughable. Thierry Henry for instance? Who knew France's top goalscorer in the year they won the World Cup! Henry was a great player off form and Wenger helped him rediscover it. Kudos for that but he never developed him. Anelka was developed at PSG, everyone knew what a top talent this kid was as he was already ripping it up as a 16 year old in France. Patrick Vieira was snared from Cannes by AC Milan but because of their strict foreigner rules, Wenger was able to snatch him. Again, he couldn't have developed him if Milan had already spotted how good the player was.

I honestly think this reputation Wenger has of bringing through youth has to be re-evaluated against the Facts. Look at Sczesny: Almunia played 4 years in goal and it took a Flappy injury for him to finally get a chance. It happened by accident. Meanwhile look at the time and chances afforded the likes of Shitachi, Cygan, Silvestre and Chamak (see a common theme there? All French!)

Bit long sorry but...Thoughts?

[Babatunde]

Of course he deserves great credit for Fabregas - although again, this would be La Masia that developed the player. Though I accept it was Wenger who gave him the chance.

[marcengels]

Ok so you spoke to yourself and relayed the result of your conversation, now you're replying to yourself!

[rigsby]

Well Wenger had Henry at Monaco. Also I know Henry was already a World Cup Winner, but had he not come to Arsenal would he have been regarded as the World Class player he was?

I think he's been very good at getting players in who aren't household names and turning them into top class players. Look at Nasri last season. All managers have dodgy signings and periods. Ferguson had a period of Klebberson,.Fortune,Miller etc, it happens.

I'm not his biggest fan, but he deserves credit for what he's done.

[HashKads]

What time is it in Hartford?

[Supagoon]

Ok so you spoke to yourself and relayed the result of your conversation, now you're replying to yourself!

[Red Gunner]

Well Wenger had Henry at Monaco. Also I know Henry was already a World Cup Winner, but had he not come to Arsenal would he have been regarded as the World Class player he was?

I think he's been very good at getting players in who aren't household names and turning them into top class players. Look at Nasri last season. All managers have dodgy signings and periods. Ferguson had a period of Klebberson,.Fortune,Miller etc, it happens.

I'm not his biggest fan, but he deserves credit for what he's done.

I agree with that. It annoys me when people highlight the crap players that Wenger has bought over the years. All managers, even the greatest ones, sign crap players. After all, Guardiola signed Hleb and Chygrynskiy! He also signed Ibrahimovic for £40 million plus Eto'o, which is the biggest rip off ever bar Carroll So really let's be easy on Wenger when it comes to this, no one is perfect. But one thing we can criticise Wenger for when it comes to crap players, is his persistence with those players. It's like he's trying to prove himself right and just can't admit he bought a crap player. Some of these players are so bad that by the time Wenger realises it, no-one even wants to even buy them

[goonersid]

Just what we need, another Wenger is a *word censored* thread No I am serious this is just what we need
The recent signings have been a smokescreen to what is the real issue at the club, that being the removal of Wenger by what ever means necessary.
He will no doubt be around for a lttle longer than I had hoped, due to these signings, but ultimatley I have a feeling it will be these very sigings that will be his downfall.

[Babatunde]

LOL I wasn't actually speaking to myself silly bilyl! I was chatting to a fellow Goona in the pub....(so my joke didn't work then)

Rigsby mate another pet peeve is the whole Nasri thing. Those two retarded girls at Old Trafford really showed what clueless biatches they are by holding up a banner claiming 'who knew Nasri 4 years ago'. What a fucking pair of idiots those birds are. Wenger did not do anything special to Nasri, in fact if you look at Nasri's form and performances under Anigo at Marseille, he seemed a much better player then and if anything regressed a little under Wenger!

Real Madrid put in 2 bids for Samir Nasri over 4 years ago which were rejected out of hand by Anigo. Inter Milan also submitted a bid for Sam Nasri around the same period. Again rejected. Eevryone knew of Nasri, he was called 'le prochain Zizou' in France!!! Wenger did fuck all for Nasri I'm sorry.

I'll give AW credit for what he's good at doing though, he made money on Nasri. Nothing else. In one game at Citeh Nasri has looked a better player than I have ever seen at Arsenal. Says it all.

[marcengels]

No, I got it mate...

[Babatunde]

Just what we need, another Wenger is a c**t thread No I am serious this is just what we need
The recent signings have been a smokescreen to what is the real issue at the club, that being the removal of Wenger by what ever means necessary.
He will no doubt be around for a lttle longer than I had hoped, due to these signings, but ultimatley I have a feeling it will be these very sigings that will be his downfall.

I make you right there mate. If these signings don't work out then he's definitely gone in summer. I mean think about it: he spends fuck all, achieves fuck all. He spends a shitload, still wins fuck all.

So what is his purpose then? He should go work for KPMG in which case then....

[g88ner]

One of my pet hates is the notion that Arsene Wenger is this great developer of Youth. I'll keep this short: that is complete bollocks. He isn't.

You're blinded by hate my friend.

I'm far from Wenger's biggest fan, but I'm not going to follow you down the route of purposely doing the man a disservice by ignoring his good work, and twisting it to suit your argument.

Wenger has done a great job of developing talent.... no, not from scratch (why is that so important to you?) but he has a well deserved reputation for bringing in young players for relatively little money and giving them a platform to perform at the highest level.

The problem isn't his youth development, but his inability (whether it's his fault or the boards) to buy top quality, experienced players, which Citeh, ManUre and Chelsea do on a regular basis. As a consequence, he has invested time and money in gambling on players who have room for vast improvement like Ramsey, Theo, Nasri, Adebayor, Hleb, etc. in the hope that (a) his judgement is right, and (b) richer clubs don't turn their heads... which sadly happens on a regular basis these days

[flash gunner]

The whole Wenger youth thing is utter bollocks. He probably has a success rate of bring youngsters through to Arsenal level or better of about 2% which is no better than most of the other top clubs. I think this myth is generally fading now as both Smalling and Jones chose united over us when in the past ie Ramsey we used to get the pick but not anymore.

Once the myth is totally gone i dont think there is much left for Wenger

[Babatunde]

One of my pet hates is the notion that Arsene Wenger is this great developer of Youth. I'll keep this short: that is complete bollocks. He isn't.

You're blinded by hate my friend.

I'm far from Wenger's biggest fan, but I'm not going to follow you down the route of purposely doing the man a disservice by ignoring his good work, and twisting it to suit your argument.

Wenger has done a great job of developing talent.... no, not from scratch (why is that so important to you?) but he has a well deserved reputation for bringing in young players for relatively little money and giving them a platform to perform at the highest level.

The problem isn't his youth development, but his inability (whether it's his fault or the boards) to buy top quality, experienced players, which Citeh, ManUre and Chelsea do on a regular basis. As a consequence, he has invested time and money in gambling on players who have room for vast improvement like Ramsey, Theo, Nasri, Adebayor, Hleb, etc. in the hope that (a) his judgement is right, and (b) richer clubs don't turn their heads... which sadly happens on a regular basis these days

Nasri? Are you actually being serious? It's funny because most Arse fans I speak too all agree that Nasri had half a season of good form and was average for the rest of his time at Arsenal. How can you claim Wenger deserves credit for that? Nasri regressed at Arsenal, he was a better player at Marseille.

Hleb??! Seriously how on earth can you give Wenger credit for Hleb! This the same Hleb most Gooners hated? The same Hleb who was a far superior performer for Stuttgart? Agani how can you, with a straight face, mention him as one of Wenger's success stories?

RAMSEY?!! What the hell has Ramsey done? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Or did you not see his shambolic performances at Liverpool, at Old Trafford and his half-arsed performances in the Championship last season...

THEO? That one I'm not even going to bother answering. If you can't see what a waste of talent Walcott is, I won't bother pointing it out.

Adebayor? He's proof that Wenger isn't a good developer of talent if anything. One prolific season followed by THE most de-motivated performances ever seen in an Arsenal shirt. Whereas under a Ferguson, there is never an excuse for a young player to become demotivated after one good season. If anything the player is hungrier for more. Adebayor was a Huge failure of management for Wenger.

So in short: you still have not been able to name a single decent young player Wenger has developed in the past seven years. Oh and why does it matter if they are developed from scratch or not? Why because that is the essence of development. Otherwise we might as well all claim Fergie developed Ashley Young, Dalglish is developing Suarez and Mourinho developed Ozil.

No. Not applicable I'm afraid.

I don't think I am 'blinded by hate' as you put it. I think you may well be blinded by your love for Arsene if anything! Putting down Ramsey, Theo, Hleb and Adebaywhore as Wenger successes is desperate, desperate stuff....

[Babatunde]

The whole Wenger youth thing is utter bollocks. He probably has a success rate of bring youngsters through to Arsenal level or better of about 2% which is no better than most of the other top clubs. I think this myth is generally fading now as both Smalling and Jones chose united over us when in the past ie Ramsey we used to get the pick but not anymore.

Once the myth is totally gone i dont think there is much left for Wenger

^^^This.

And remember, Arsenal offered Smalling and Jones much higher wages than ManYoo and they still chose to go to Fergie! Platini called it exactly right on Wenger: he is a businessman first, he is a football manager last.