The Rooney Rule

[frankbutcher]

BTW - the ex-Arsenal player is Brian Talbot. His son is good mates with my brother.

If Brian Talbot left Arsenal in 1985 how the fuck would he know about Davis's coaching abilities eighteen years later?

Perhaps Tom Whittaker has some anecdotes about Davis's coaching abilities maybe next time you should ask him when he appears in one of your medically-induced trances?

PS - Can we have a pre-1996 Arsenal FC History month. I think Always Outgunned needs to know pre-1996 issues. And while we're at it.... During the recession which covered our title winning seasons of 1989 and 1991, was the stadium half-full? Obviously the recession should have meant that we didn't sell out our games. I know the answer, because I was at most of the games.

Always Outgunned?

Of course anyone with half a brain knows a recession is less likely to effect things when tickets for seats are £5.50 a head rather than £70 a head - even taking inflation over 20 years into account (looks like we've got a clever one here!)

[/quote]

His son was on Arsenal's books until the late 90s, hence he still kept links with the Club.

£5.50? The cheap seats...... Let's compare apples with "pairs" in your words. The top seats at Highbury in the 1989-91 period were way above £5.50 a game. Probably nearer to £15-20 a game. And yet they were sold out consistently.

Outgunned again.... (this is getting boring.... )

[frankbutcher]

[QuartzGooner]

As far as having History Months devoted to a certain ethnicity, or film festivals, book festivals etc I think they are a very good idea.
If you want to attend them fine, if not then also fine.

As for school history syllabus, it is almost a thankless task to provide a balanced and all encompassing syllabus.

An awful lot has happened in the world, our understanding of the past is constantly changing via new research and new interpretations.

In the grand scheme of world history it is probably not that vital to know much about Henry III, but being that this is the UK such a subject will likely take priority over history from other continents i.e. as a historical fact, it is usual to attribute Henry as the King who called the first Parliament in 1264, big news for people in England, but of little consequence to the Mongolian ruler Kublai Khan who was fighting Ariq Boke at the time.

The best that can be hoped for at school level is that pupils are aware that an awful lot was going on in the whole world at most points in history, and that people from all over the world contributed to the society of today. But an in- depth analysis of all of world history before the age of 16 is just not practical.

[DB10GOONER]

Irish History month? You could fit into an afternoon if you went without a lunch break

How would Irish history be complete without potatoes...

On second thoughts, a lack of potatoes may be more apt.

probably end up banned for that

Yep, laughing about 1 million people starving to death is always good.


Racist ginger pint murderer.

[safcftm]

Out of interest, what % of supporters that attend games are black? I dont really have a point here but I'd be interested to see if anyone knows the answer. I'm tempted to make a point, but I cant be arsed with the flack

[olgitgooner]

Out of interest, what % of supporters that attend games are black? I dont really have a point here but I'd be interested to see if anyone knows the answer. I'm tempted to make a point, but I cant be arsed with the flack

Yup, there sure is a whole load of flak flying around on this thread.

I've just got back from holiday. I've now gone through the whole nine pages. There are more insults than you'd get from usmartin with toothache.

I'm against the Rooney Rule thingy. Surely it's just a matter of time before we'll see more black managers coming through the ranks?

I'm against discrimination of all sorts. That includes those "Equal Opportunity" employers who favour minority groups over the majority group. It should all be about a person's ability to do the job. Nothing else.

You could equally say that black footballers are over-represented in the prem. And take steps to redress the balance by introducing a quota system to favour white/asian players.

[arseofacrow]

Out of interest, what % of supporters that attend games are black? I dont really have a point here but I'd be interested to see if anyone knows the answer. I'm tempted to make a point, but I cant be arsed with the flack

Spelling mistake mate?

[Henry Norris 1913]

You could equally say that black footballers are over-represented in the prem. And take steps to redress the balance by introducing a quota system to favour white/asian players.

watch it mate you'll send Babatunde off on one

[SWLGooner]

Yep, laughing about 1 million people starving to death is always good.


Racist ginger pint murderer.

As you say, us White South Africans are always *word censored*!

ginger dwarf arse licking pint dropper

[SWLGooner]

Out of interest, what % of supporters that attend games are black? I dont really have a point here but I'd be interested to see if anyone knows the answer. I'm tempted to make a point, but I cant be arsed with the flack

9% at Arsenal, according to a 2009 study. I'd believe that.

Although we were the most in the league.

BNP paradise Stoke is unsurprisingly bottom, with like 0.3%...

[safcftm]

Out of interest, what % of supporters that attend games are black? I dont really have a point here but I'd be interested to see if anyone knows the answer. I'm tempted to make a point, but I cant be arsed with the flack

9% at Arsenal, according to a 2009 study. I'd believe that.

Although we were the most in the league.

BNP paradise Stoke is unsurprisingly bottom, with like 0.3%...

Right, fuck it, I'll just make me little point and if people want to scream that its racist well, fuck them, its not.

Could the lack of black british managers be due to the fact that, on the whole (with plenty of exceptions yada yada yada) a lot of black British lads arent interested in british football?

Not saying they arent interested in football full stop, africans (as an example of one area where black british people can be descended from) are bang into their football. Ghana play England at Wembley and loads of black british lads (presumably with either ghanaian or at least african roots) turn up to watch, Jamaica (who i know arent from africa by the way!) play games in london and loads of black lads turn up to watch, so its not that black lads in britain dont like football, but when you look at the numbers who turn up to watch english league sides, the numbers are very small. Arsenal probably have the highest numbers and are decently well represented but clubs like birmingham and villa seem, from a quick scan of the crowds on the tele, to have very few ethnic minority fans despite the area being home to a lot of ethnic minorities.

So, ethnic minorities dont (in my possibly wrong opinion) seem to be overly interested in supporting british league clubs. A lot of this apparent apathy will be down to the racism of the past where black players were racially abused and where black supporters were similarly treated. This was all quite recent so its perfectly understandable if black/ ethnic minority lads dont feel like going to matches too much.

Thing is, a lot of lads who get into football (playing i mean, not watching) are from socially disadvantaged areas. A lot of black lads are from inner city, socially disadvantaged areas. If the black lads like football, they'll play football in the streets/ parks etc. If they're good, they might be found by a scout. This is my point, maybe a good few black british lads who become players do it purely because they see it as a way to make money- they might not be interested in the british clubs or leagues and may feel very little for the fans of these clubs, but its a way out of the social situation some of them are in and its a way to become set for life.

If, and I know its a big if, this is the case for a fair number of black british footballers, then maybe this explains why not many want to go into management. If they've had a successful playing career, maybe they feel they've got what they wanted out of football, they have the financial security, and feel no great wish to stay involved in the british game. For lads at a lower level they wont have the financial security, but then very few poor players ever really get many chances at management anyway, but of the top players, it might be at least partly the case that a lot of them simply dont want any part of the game once their playing career is finished. Very few bother attending games, a lot play and earn money through playing, very few stay on in the game afterwards. Its something to consider, although judging by the rest of the thread i fully expect a perfectly innocent observation and question for discussion to be turned into a "he's a bnp supporting facist, burn him at the stake" fest

And obviously (disclaimer) I am well aware that some black lads are very passionate supporters of clubs in england, some have very good playing careers and some desperately want to stay in the game despite having financial security because they love the game of football in england. I'm just wondering how many that applies to

*runs into a nuclear bunker and cowers awaiting the onslaught*

[shu]

I almost wish the transfer window was open !

but i can't fucking go thro that a gain

[Yankee_Gooner_Dandee]

Always Outgunned you are now talking out of your arse im afraid. This has turned from a debate about a rule brought in to help black candidates into you banging on about our lack of coverage of black history in the education system Over here most of our history that is taught in school is in relation to Ireland because guess what thats where i live. We also learn about the civils rights movement in the US etc. but to say we over look black history is nonsense becasue frankly there werent many black people in ireland until the last 30 years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeixtYS-P3s

Morgan Freeman gets it spot on there and its people like you that think they are do gooders that are seperating us and black and white when the people that you call race rose tinters dont see any skin colour at all.

Morgan Freeman Absolute legend and absolutely spot on - I reckon most blacks feel the same.

He puts it perfectly when he says "Why do I want a black history month? Black history is American history".

I think that ends the discussion.

His point was why is black history relegated to just one month?

So his criticisms of it aren't quite the same as some on here

He also says if you want to fight racism stop talking about it - something which is a heck of a lot easier to say if you're a hollywood star and not a Black college graduate from the South Bronx who can't find employment suitable for his qualifications

I am a white American college graduate with a bachelors degree in Anthropology, and I cannot find employment suitable for my qualifications either. The economy is shit shit regardless of your skin color.

[Never Outgunned]

Right, fuck it, I'll just make me little point and if people want to scream that its racist well, fuck them, its not.

Could the lack of black british managers be due to the fact that, on the whole (with plenty of exceptions yada yada yada) a lot of black British lads arent interested in british football?

???

Not saying they arent interested in football full stop, africans (as an example of one area where black british people can be descended from) are bang into their football. Ghana play England at Wembley and loads of black british lads (presumably with either ghanaian or at least african roots) turn up to watch, Jamaica (who i know arent from africa by the way!) play games in london and loads of black lads turn up to watch, so its not that black lads in britain dont like football, but when you look at the numbers who turn up to watch english league sides, the numbers are very small. Arsenal probably have the highest numbers and are decently well represented but clubs like birmingham and villa seem, from a quick scan of the crowds on the tele, to have very few ethnic minority fans despite the area being home to a lot of ethnic minorities.

So, ethnic minorities dont (in my possibly wrong opinion) seem to be overly interested in supporting british league clubs. A lot of this apparent apathy will be down to the racism of the past where black players were racially abused and where black supporters were similarly treated. This was all quite recent so its perfectly understandable if black/ ethnic minority lads dont feel like going to matches too much.

Thing is, a lot of lads who get into football (playing i mean, not watching) are from socially disadvantaged areas. A lot of black lads are from inner city, socially disadvantaged areas. If the black lads like football, they'll play football in the streets/ parks etc. If they're good, they might be found by a scout. This is my point, maybe a good few black british lads who become players do it purely because they see it as a way to make money- they might not be interested in the british clubs or leagues and may feel very little for the fans of these clubs, but its a way out of the social situation some of them are in and its a way to become set for life.

I've moved within fairly multi-ethnic circles over the last two decades and I cannot think of a single black bloke off the top of my head who didn't support a British football side - so not quite sure where you got that idea from.

With the football attendance and ethnicity thing - historically speaking it has been the racism/hooliganism thing and a hang over from the days when the NF/BNP used to leaflet and canvass outside football grounds. Back then also a lot of the time Non-whites were generally uncomfortable at the thought of being in attendance with thousands of angry pissed up white folk or bring their kids to somewhere where either opposition players or under performing home team black players would have had racial abuse chanted at them.

The time when that image of football seemed to have been shifted in the minds of non-attenders was around the 90s, when gentrification and high admission prices would have then made the non-whites less keen to go, as it did a lot of the whites who hailed from the same areas.

There is certainly less of a culture of attendance at football matches with ethnic minorities - in some part due to a lack of a long standing link to the area. If you're black or asian in the East end for instance, you wouldn't have had grandads and great grandads supporting West Ham or Millwall like your white counterparts.

A lot of blacks and asians I know usually tend to support one of the big four sides that qualify for the champions league regularly - mainly because without the history of football attendance geography is irrelevant and they've usually grown up with football on the telly and gleaned their support from there.

I actually did ask a mate of mine - a 24 year old black bloke from New Cross why he supported United when there was 12 London clubs to support and why he didn't support Millwall. He was actually on Millwall's books as a kid but found their supporters initimidating and very dubious in a racial sense whenever he watched them in the flesh - despite him being built like a brick shit house. (I know quite a few black blokes from South London and I've never known any of them to have supported Millwall - or any other South London side for that matter).

I said to him that I got into the Arsenal by being taken there by my dad from a young age and surely you can't have the same rapport with a side from 200 miles away from a city you never visit and side you only ever see on the telly. He said that his dad never took him to games as a kid and where he's from a lot of kids don't even have dads so the culture of football supporting isn't the same.

If, and I know its a big if, this is the case for a fair number of black british footballers, then maybe this explains why not many want to go into management. If they've had a successful playing career, maybe they feel they've got what they wanted out of football, they have the financial security, and feel no great wish to stay involved in the british game.

Don't really buy it as an explanation

[Never Outgunned]

Anyway - I think I've changed my mind on this issue.

I'm now completely convinced that people who run and own football clubs choose people on merit and choose rationally without any base feelings about a candidate coming into the equation.

I think they're ready, willing and able to appoint people who don't fit the stereotypical mould of what a person has in mind when appointing someone for the position in hand - even when factors like lack of experience comes into the equation.

I think they'll even consider those who don't fit the fixed stereotype when their club is at the sharp end of football where a relegation out of the football league or a failure of promotion out of the Conference could see their club face financial oblivion.

After all, look who Mansfield have appointed as a CEO

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ds-newsxml

I'm sure she got the job on merit and not linked to the fact she's willing to shack up with a bloke who has a face like this:



I think Black footballer should keep this in mind when making excuses for themselves - perhaps they should take a leaf out of Ms Still's book on how to get appointed by a football club owner - after all one of the few black people to have got a coaching job in football in the last 20 years was Justin Fashanu at Torquay!