Politics

[Highbury_Born]

Probably Conservative right.

I actually did a Politics degree for my sins and used to be really into it. Now, like most people, I can't be arsed. Our government's a bit like Wenger. It cocks up all the time, but nothing is going to change....

The thing about socialists is that they don't practice what they preach. If they lived on a council estate full of asylum seekers, people sponging off the state, violent crimimals and hoodies, they might feel the same way as a lot of people. If all MPs didn't have a gold-plated defined benefit pension they might see the total cock-up they have made in this country. They are insulated in their ivory towers and are made for life once they have been an MP for a term.

Socialists have fucked this country. Asylum in un-sustainable numbers has raped the UK of it's identity. People are now taught to be ashamed to be British. Look at the BBC last week. They want to replace BC and AD with some other benign term. They don't want to fuck off Muslims etc. This is England for fuck sake. Socialists have also encouraged a generation of illiterate scum that live off of the state and merely detract from it. That's the thing about socialists - they bribe people to vote for them. When the money runs out they are fucked and they then sit in the shadows criticising the Tories for cutting services. It's called balancing the books. Socialists are c@nts.

Totally agree with you rioter, but you forgot to mention dignity. Is the bad language really f***in ness?

[Highbury_Born]

Probably Conservative right.

I actually did a Politics degree for my sins and used to be really into it. Now, like most people, I can't be arsed. Our government's a bit like Wenger. It cocks up all the time, but nothing is going to change....

The thing about socialists is that they don't practice what they preach. If they lived on a council estate full of asylum seekers, people sponging off the state, violent crimimals and hoodies, they might feel the same way as a lot of people. If all MPs didn't have a gold-plated defined benefit pension they might see the total cock-up they have made in this country. They are insulated in their ivory towers and are made for life once they have been an MP for a term.

Socialists have fucked this country. Asylum in un-sustainable numbers has raped the UK of it's identity. People are now taught to be ashamed to be British. Look at the BBC last week. They want to replace BC and AD with some other benign term. They don't want to fuck off Muslims etc. This is England for fuck sake. Socialists have also encouraged a generation of illiterate scum that live off of the state and merely detract from it. That's the thing about socialists - they bribe people to vote for them. When the money runs out they are fucked and they then sit in the shadows criticising the Tories for cutting services. It's called balancing the books. Socialists are c@nts.

Totally agree with you rioter, but you forgot to mention dignity. Is the bad language really f***in ness?

[Never Outgunned]

The socialists (New Labour? ) bribe people? And Thatcher's council house sell off/sale of British assets in the form of share issues, and others were what exactly? Each party looks at a sizeable constituency of stable support, then outside of this they try to find ways to garner popular support - at least enough to win elections.

Hey!

Why let the facts get in the way of a well entrenched and blinkered point of view!

[frankbutcher]

Never Outgunned...... Writing bollocks again! You're just pissed off that the Tories have pissed on your bonfire. I reckon you're a disabled, homosexual muslim, who is here claiming asylum. Now your benefits have been cut, you may need to go back to where you came from. Fuck off back to the Lane.

If wit was shit you'd be constipated

If you had some bollocks you'd be a bloke.

mmm....not too keen on challenging any of the content of my first post then? Have you got no answers?

Can't be bothered. You've taken each of my points and produced selective pieces of evidence all the way back to the Seventies. I've written enough essays on these topics in the past. You're not going to change your opinon, so what's the point. That's Politics for you.

By the way. I got a 2.1 from a top Uni and before that didn't get anything less than an A in A Levels and GCSE. Or am I making this all up? You decide.

[arseofacrow]

Just as well you weren't taking exams in Arsenal related predictions, Frank.

[Never Outgunned]

Never Outgunned...... Writing bollocks again! You're just pissed off that the Tories have pissed on your bonfire. I reckon you're a disabled, homosexual muslim, who is here claiming asylum. Now your benefits have been cut, you may need to go back to where you came from. Fuck off back to the Lane.

If wit was shit you'd be constipated

If you had some bollocks you'd be a bloke.

mmm....not too keen on challenging any of the content of my first post then? Have you got no answers?

Can't be bothered. You've taken each of my points and produced selective pieces of evidence all the way back to the Seventies. I've written enough essays on these topics in the past. You're not going to change your opinon, so what's the point. That's Politics for you. By the way. I got a 2.1 from a top Uni and before that didn't get anything less than an A in A Levels and GCSE. Or am I making this all up? You decide.

Take it that's a no then.

If you had some bollocks you'd be a bloke

[frankbutcher]

The socialists (New Labour? ) bribe people? And Thatcher's council house sell off/sale of British assets in the form of share issues, and others were what exactly? Each party looks at a sizeable constituency of stable support, then outside of this they try to find ways to garner popular support - at least enough to win elections.

Hey!

Why let the facts get in the way of a well entrenched and blinkered point of view!

Council houses.....

Big difference between Thatcher giving people a stake in society and an opportunity to better one's self. Labour have just created millions of state non-jobs and overseen a massive increase in state handouts. All that Labour have created is dependents on the welfare state, not wealth creaters like Thatcher did.

[LDB]

Funny I thought the less well of areas tended to vote left wing

Generally out of historical tribalism more then anything else. If tribal voting collapsed tomorrow labour would be dead in the water.

Bit of an odd target for blame seeing Britain hasn't had a government you could call socialist since about 1970, taking into account Blair was further to the right than Edward Heath or McMillan on most things and the 1974-79 Labour government had free market economics forced on it by the IMF and needed a pact with the Liberals.

It doesnt take many socialist principles to fuck up everything. People on the left consistently make the mistake of viewing the deregulation of the banks in the late 90s and the massive expansion of the money supply as a product of thatchers enduring legacy. It was not. Thatcher was a monetarist and the first rule of monetarism is to control the supply of money.

The bubble which burst in 2008 was created because politicians like clinton and brown saw an opportunity to create a massive economic boom through deregulation and credit expansion, the proceeds of which could be used to bloat the public sector and feather their electoral nests. A few years back there were leaked emails between alan greenspan and gordon brown dated 1997 which more or less stated this.

Every post war landmark figure for unemployment: 1 million, 2 million, 3 million - was reached under a Tory government. It's the Tories during 1979-90 that normalised a situation of over 2 million unemployed in the UK.

Probably because the tories usually come in to power just after labour has done its job of fucking everything up. One thing i will credit Labour with is they are very good at propping up an economy just about long enough for them to be safely out of power by the time the restructuring has to start.

Judging by the Tories very poor figures for growth their plan for 'balancing the books' doesn't seem to be working.

There will be no growth under either party for the forseeable future because we are still due a massive recession which we've delayed and stored up for a few years longer. The west should have taken the hit back in 2009 but instead we printed more money and propped up a failed system. Capitalism is in many ways a simple system - you fuck it up you pay the price, we cant defy gravity forever.

[Never Outgunned]

The socialists (New Labour? ) bribe people? And Thatcher's council house sell off/sale of British assets in the form of share issues, and others were what exactly? Each party looks at a sizeable constituency of stable support, then outside of this they try to find ways to garner popular support - at least enough to win elections.

Hey! Why let the facts get in the way of a well entrenched and blinkered point of view!

Council houses..... Big difference between Thatcher giving people a stake in society and an opportunity to better one's self. Labour have just created millions of state non-jobs and overseen a massive increase in state handouts. All that Labour have created is dependents on the welfare state, not wealth creaters like Thatcher did.

Of course when it comes to unsustainable non-jobs created by state handouts, most of these today tend to be in the banking industry - which would have collapsed were it not for a massive handout back in 2008 and is attributable to around 88% of the deficit we have.

[arseofacrow]

The socialists (New Labour? ) bribe people? And Thatcher's council house sell off/sale of British assets in the form of share issues, and others were what exactly? Each party looks at a sizeable constituency of stable support, then outside of this they try to find ways to garner popular support - at least enough to win elections.

Hey!

Why let the facts get in the way of a well entrenched and blinkered point of view!

Council houses.....

Big difference between Thatcher giving people a stake in society and an opportunity to better one's self. Labour have just created millions of state non-jobs and overseen a massive increase in state handouts. All that Labour have created is dependents on the welfare state, not wealth creaters like Thatcher did.

A stake in society

One person says tomato....

Created dependants on the welfare state? Well, Thatcher never did th...oh

You have your angle Frank, I see that, and your arguments come that that angle. As you wrote earlier, it's a question of viewpoint and I'm not so keen to argue about a system that I see as rotten to the core, and that infuriates me so much.

[frankbutcher]

The socialists (New Labour? ) bribe people? And Thatcher's council house sell off/sale of British assets in the form of share issues, and others were what exactly? Each party looks at a sizeable constituency of stable support, then outside of this they try to find ways to garner popular support - at least enough to win elections.

Hey! Why let the facts get in the way of a well entrenched and blinkered point of view!

Council houses..... Big difference between Thatcher giving people a stake in society and an opportunity to better one's self. Labour have just created millions of state non-jobs and overseen a massive increase in state handouts. All that Labour have created is dependents on the welfare state, not wealth creaters like Thatcher did.

Of course when it comes to unsustainable non-jobs created by state handouts, most of these today tend to be in the banking industry - which would have collapsed were it not for a massive handout back in 2008 and is attributable to around 88% of the deficit we have.

Look - I work for a Bank. I work for the Retail part of a Bank, which deals with small businesses that are in financial difficulty. I re-structure these businesses, I offer them financial advice and I lend them more money if they can afford it. I keep people in jobs by not choosing to close businesses down that are failing. On the other hand I agree that Investment Banks fucked up an awful lot. However, what you need to understand is that the Government allowed this crisis in a way. All of the Western Economies boomed because of the Banking sector and earned an awful lot of money out of it. Now it has gone badly wrong, they are partly to blame. In terms of non-jobs in the Banking sector, you couldn't be more wrong.

[frankbutcher]

The socialists (New Labour? ) bribe people? And Thatcher's council house sell off/sale of British assets in the form of share issues, and others were what exactly? Each party looks at a sizeable constituency of stable support, then outside of this they try to find ways to garner popular support - at least enough to win elections.

Hey!

Why let the facts get in the way of a well entrenched and blinkered point of view!

Council houses.....

Big difference between Thatcher giving people a stake in society and an opportunity to better one's self. Labour have just created millions of state non-jobs and overseen a massive increase in state handouts. All that Labour have created is dependents on the welfare state, not wealth creaters like Thatcher did.

A stake in society

One person says tomato....

Created dependants on the welfare state? Well, Thatcher never did th...oh

You have your angle Frank, I see that, and your arguments come that that angle. As you wrote earlier, it's a question of viewpoint and I'm not so keen to argue about a system that I see as rotten to the core, and that infuriates me so much.

That's why I said at the outset that when it comes to Politics it's best to agree to disagree. Even the tone of your post above is condescending and arrogant as you believe that you're right and I'm wrong.

What's the point of even debating these points? Politics is not about ideology. Politics is about power. Simple as that.

[arseofacrow]

The socialists (New Labour? ) bribe people? And Thatcher's council house sell off/sale of British assets in the form of share issues, and others were what exactly? Each party looks at a sizeable constituency of stable support, then outside of this they try to find ways to garner popular support - at least enough to win elections.

Hey!

Why let the facts get in the way of a well entrenched and blinkered point of view!

Council houses.....

Big difference between Thatcher giving people a stake in society and an opportunity to better one's self. Labour have just created millions of state non-jobs and overseen a massive increase in state handouts. All that Labour have created is dependents on the welfare state, not wealth creaters like Thatcher did.

A stake in society

One person says tomato....

Created dependants on the welfare state? Well, Thatcher never did th...oh

You have your angle Frank, I see that, and your arguments come that that angle. As you wrote earlier, it's a question of viewpoint and I'm not so keen to argue about a system that I see as rotten to the core, and that infuriates me so much.

That's why I said at the outset that when it comes to Politics it's best to agree to disagree. Even the tone of your post above is condescending and arrogant as you believe that you're right and I'm wrong.

What's the point of even debating these points? Politics is not about ideology. Politics is about power. Simple as that.

Which post is condascending and arrogant? These things are the further things from my mind, and who I am.

I do not believe that I have the complete truth...no-one does. I simply responded to a statement of your's Frank, and how I see the situation.

If you really see the posts that way then sorry. But I then generally think you need to reassess how you evaluate what people are saying, as you have completely misconstrued something.

[frankbutcher]

Hey!

Why let the facts get in the way of a well entrenched and blinkered point of view!

Council houses.....

Big difference between Thatcher giving people a stake in society and an opportunity to better one's self. Labour have just created millions of state non-jobs and overseen a massive increase in state handouts. All that Labour have created is dependents on the welfare state, not wealth creaters like Thatcher did.

A stake in society
One person says tomato....

Created dependants on the welfare state? Well, Thatcher never did th...oh

You have your angle Frank, I see that, and your arguments come that that angle. As you wrote earlier, it's a question of viewpoint and I'm not so keen to argue about a system that I see as rotten to the core, and that infuriates me so much.

That's why I said at the outset that when it comes to Politics it's best to agree to disagree. Even the tone of your post above is condescending and arrogant as you believe that you're right and I'm wrong.

What's the point of even debating these points? Politics is not about ideology. Politics is about power. Simple as that.

Which post is condascending and arrogant? These things are the further things from my mind, and who I am.

I do not believe that I have the complete truth...no-one does. I simply responded to a statement of your's Frank, and how I see the situation.

If you really see the posts that way then sorry. But I then generally think you need to reassess how you evaluate what people are saying, as you have completely misconstrued something.

That bit ^

[LDB]

That's why I said at the outset that when it comes to Politics it's best to agree to disagree.

Probably right in most circumstances but i find that too many people are never subjected to different views and interpretations of events and challenged to think about things in depth.

Of course you will never get someone to openly admit that you've made them change their mind but if political debate can get people seriously thinking about the views they hold then its a good thing imo. Alot of the time discussing politics with people makes you feel like you've just challenged some deeply held religious belief.. i think that should change