THE ARSENAL CAPTAINCY: THE ABUSE CONTINUES

olgitgooner · Post by **olgitgooner** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:22 pm

Babatunde wrote:Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.....

Are you related to Radford 149?

DUFFMAN · Post by **DUFFMAN** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:30 pm

Belfast Boy wrote:n6gooner wrote: Belfast Boy wrote: Babatunde wrote: n6gooner wrote: aw inherited ta5, got lucky with pv4 and hasn't had a clue about what "captain material" entails ever since. truth is that he couldn't handle the strong character of a real captain which is why neither adams nor vieira returned after retiring

Thank you very much!

Have to disagree with this, DD was lobbying for AW to get the job of AFC manager long before before Bruce Rioch got the job the and the reason the board initially rejected his suggestion was them looking at AW's portfolio, commenting that he looked like a school teacher or a "professor" and that he would not be able to handle the senior and/or more difficult characters in the dressing room like Adams, Parlour and Merson etc who were, lets face it, hardened drinkers and in Merse's case a degenerate gambler and coke head, and regardless of the subsequent downturn it's very hard to argue deny he turned the culture not just of the club but of the whole league completely around!

bb - can't dispute what you say, however, not sure what that has to do with aw being unable to appoint conventional, strong and inspiring captains

My point is that you seem to be suggesting that AW is deliberately refusing to appoint strong characters because he can't handle them and I'm saying that how he turned round the careers of Adams etc. whose repuatations and standing at the club, not to mention their drink fuelled exploits, were legendary, suggests otherwise!

It's also true that rightly or wrongly, continental culture does not place the same level of importance on the captaincy as we do, with the honour usually goin to the most senior player regardless of leadership qualities!

The problem with the point you're making is that the wenger who turned the likes of Adams and co around is not the same wenger who now masquerades as a football manager. The two are as different as night and day.
For me, he seems to have lost his bottle and turned into a scrawny, disheveled downtrodden old man.

I swear he has an evil tottnumb supporting twin who took over 7 years ago much like the tony Blair/ Gordon brown agreement .

n6gooner · Post by **n6gooner** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:47 pm

Belfast Boy wrote:
n6gooner wrote:
Belfast Boy wrote:
Babatunde wrote:
n6gooner wrote:aw inherited ta5, got lucky with pv4 and hasn't had a clue about what "captain material" entails ever since. truth is that he couldn't handle the strong character of a real captain which is why neither adams nor vieira returned after retiring
Thank you very much!

Have to disagree with this, DD was lobbying for AW to get the job of AFC manager long before before Bruce Rioch got the job the and the reason the board initially rejected his suggestion was them looking at AW's portfolio, commenting that he looked like a school teacher or a "professor" and that he would not be able to handle the senior and/or more difficult characters in the dressing room like Adams, Parlour and Merson etc who were, lets face it, hardened drinkers and in Merse's case a degenerate gambler and coke head, and regardless of the subsequent downturn it's very hard to argue deny he turned the culture not just of the club but of the whole league completely around!
bb - can't dispute what you say, however, not sure what that has to do with aw being unable to appoint conventional, strong and inspiring captains
My point is that you seem to be suggesting that AW is deliberately refusing to appoint strong characters because he can't handle them and I'm saying that how he turned round the careers of Adams etc. whose repuatations and standing at the club, not to mention their drink fuelled exploits, were legendary, suggests otherwise!

It's also true that rightly or wrongly, continental culture does not place the same level of importance on the captaincy as we do, with the honour usually goin to the most senior player regardless of leadership qualities!

didn't suggest he is "deliberately refusing" rather that he's failed, persistently, to realise the importance of a strong leader (that is the captain) and this is where we've lost our way since the departure of adams swiftly followed by vieira. we all know that the missing ingredient since cardiff 2005 has been mental toughness when it matters (ie. cl final, cc final v chelsea, post-eduardo tackle v birm, cc final v birm, repeated epl collapses after xmas, etc etc)

despite being one of aw's biggest fans i'm not deluded enough to believe he turned adams' career around. he "prolonged" the careers of the back four he inherited which is slightly, but significantly, different and was extremely beneficial to him.

as timely as aw's dietary/anti-alcohol influence was when he arrived, i suspect the acceleration of the speed at which the game is played was already changing nutritional attitudes across the world. granted, aw was amongst the first to spot this though

n6gooner · Post by **n6gooner** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:55 pm

DUFFMAN wrote:
Belfast Boy wrote:n6gooner wrote: Belfast Boy wrote: Babatunde wrote: n6gooner wrote: aw inherited ta5, got lucky with pv4 and hasn't had a clue about what "captain material" entails ever since. truth is that he couldn't handle the strong character of a real captain which is why neither adams nor vieira returned after retiring

Thank you very much!

Have to disagree with this, DD was lobbying for AW to get the job of AFC manager long before before Bruce Rioch got the job the and the reason the board initially rejected his suggestion was them looking at AW's portfolio, commenting that he looked like a school teacher or a "professor" and that he would not be able to handle the senior and/or more difficult characters in the dressing room like Adams, Parlour and Merson etc who were, lets face it, hardened drinkers and in Merse's case a degenerate gambler and coke head, and regardless of the subsequent downturn it's very hard to argue deny he turned the culture not just of the club but of the whole league completely around!

bb - can't dispute what you say, however, not sure what that has to do with aw being unable to appoint conventional, strong and inspiring captains

My point is that you seem to be suggesting that AW is deliberately refusing to appoint strong characters because he can't handle them and I'm saying that how he turned round the careers of Adams etc. whose repuatations and standing at the club, not to mention their drink fuelled exploits, were legendary, suggests otherwise!

It's also true that rightly or wrongly, continental culture does not place the same level of importance on the captaincy as we do, with the honour usually goin to the most senior player regardless of leadership qualities!
The problem with the point you're making is that the wenger who turned the likes of Adams and co around is not the same wenger who now masquerades as a football manager. The two are as different as night and day.
For me, he seems to have lost his bottle and turned into a scrawny, disheveled downtrodden old man.

I swear he has an evil tottnumb supporting twin who took over 7 years ago much like the tony Blair/ Gordon brown agreement .

agreed - that was the board realising he had the midas touch back in 2004 and corrupting him whilst "playing his ego like a fiddle" so much so that he allowed dd to leave without making a stand. he's still a v.good coach but was never a "lone ranger" as history has proved.......bit like clough

DUFFMAN · Post by **DUFFMAN** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:01 pm

n6gooner wrote:DUFFMAN wrote: Belfast Boy wrote: n6gooner wrote: Belfast Boy wrote: Babatunde wrote: n6gooner wrote: aw inherited ta5, got lucky with pv4 and hasn't had a clue about what "captain material" entails ever since. truth is that he couldn't handle the strong character of a real captain which is why neither adams nor vieira returned after retiring

Thank you very much!

Have to disagree with this, DD was lobbying for AW to get the job of AFC manager long before before Bruce Rioch got the job the and the reason the board initially rejected his suggestion was them looking at AW's portfolio, commenting that he looked like a school teacher or a "professor" and that he would not be able to handle the senior and/or more difficult characters in the dressing room like Adams, Parlour and Merson etc who were, lets face it, hardened drinkers and in Merse's case a degenerate gambler and coke head, and regardless of the subsequent downturn it's very hard to argue deny he turned the culture not just of the club but of the whole league completely around!

bb - can't dispute what you say, however, not sure what that has to do with aw being unable to appoint conventional, strong and inspiring captains

My point is that you seem to be suggesting that AW is deliberately refusing to appoint strong characters because he can't handle them and I'm saying that how he turned round the careers of Adams etc. whose repuatations and standing at the club, not to mention their drink fuelled exploits, were legendary, suggests otherwise!

It's also true that rightly or wrongly, continental culture does not place the same level of importance on the captaincy as we do, with the honour usually goin to the most senior player regardless of leadership qualities!

The problem with the point you're making is that the wenger who turned the likes of Adams and co around is not the same wenger who now masquerades as a football manager. The two are as different as night and day.
For me, he seems to have lost his bottle and turned into a scrawny, disheveled downtrodden old man.

I swear he has an evil tottnumb supporting twin who took over 7 years ago much like the tony Blair/ Gordon brown agreement .

agreed - that was the board realising he had the midas touch back in 2004 and corrupting him whilst "playing his ego like a fiddle" so much so that he allowed dd to leave without making a stand. he's still a v.good coach but was never a "lone ranger" as history has proved.......bit like clough

Very, very much like clough.

Post by **Belfast Boy** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:38 am

DUFFMAN wrote: The problem with the point you're making is that the wenger who turned the likes of Adams and co around is not the same wenger who now masquerades as a football manager. The two are as different as night and day.
For me, he seems to have lost his bottle and turned into a scrawny, disheveled downtrodden old man.

I swear he has an evil tottnumb supporting twin who took over 7 years ago much like the tony Blair/ Gordon brown agreement .

I cannot argue that we're going thru really bad times at the club DUFFMAN, in a lot of ways and not just on the pitch either, but I don't think that AW can be labelled arrogant and also the above!

Post by **Belfast Boy** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:12 am

n6gooner wrote: didn't suggest he is "deliberately refusing" rather that he's failed, persistently, to realise the importance of a strong leader (that is the captain) and this is where we've lost our way since the departure of adams swiftly followed by vieira. we all know that the missing ingredient since cardiff 2005 has been mental toughness when it matters (ie. cl final, cc final v chelsea, post-eduardo tackle v birm, cc final v birm, repeated epl collapses after xmas, etc etc)

despite being one of aw's biggest fans i'm not deluded enough to believe he turned adams' career around. he "prolonged" the careers of the back four he inherited which is slightly, but significantly, different and was extremely beneficial to him.

as timely as aw's dietary/anti-alcohol influence was when he arrived, i suspect the acceleration of the speed at which the game is played was already changing nutritional attitudes across the world. granted, aw was amongst the first to spot this though

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you meant but you wrote that AW couldn't handle strong characters which is why TA4 or PV4 weren't brought back

As for AW's influence on players' careers and whether we say he turned them around or prolonged them I fail to see any difference worth debating, and the continentals have always looked after themselves and some who've played in England particularly the Italians still can't believe how much the English players drink on a nite out, even though the pace of their game would put you to sleep!

DUFFMAN · Post by **DUFFMAN** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:48 am

Belfast Boy wrote:DUFFMAN wrote:
The problem with the point you're making is that the wenger who turned the likes of Adams and co around is not the same wenger who now masquerades as a football manager. The two are as different as night and day.
For me, he seems to have lost his bottle and turned into a scrawny, disheveled downtrodden old man.

I swear he has an evil tottnumb supporting twin who took over 7 years ago much like the tony Blair/ Gordon brown agreement .

I cannot argue that we're going thru really bad times at the club DUFFMAN, in a lot of ways and not just on the pitch either, but I don't think that AW can be labelled arrogant and also the above!

Really!!

He looks like the pressure of it all has taken its toll to me. If you watch an interview from a couple of years ago, he looks like a totally different man to me.
Looks like a beaten man.

Post by **Belfast Boy** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:01 pm

I never said he wasn't under pressure and he takes on more than most in one of the highest pressure jobs there is which will eventually show no matter who you are!

I'd be much more concerned if he looked as if he hadn't a care in the world, even AF was creakin when ManU won nothin but the CC for 3 years,

but you yourself labeled him as arrogant durin the summer, now you're sayin he's a downtrodden and broken man, that's all

mikeyb772001 · Post by **mikeyb772001** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:27 pm

Belfast Boy wrote:I never said he wasn't under pressure and he takes on a lot of it in one of the highest pressure jobs there is which will eventually show no matter who you are!

I'd be much more concerned if he looked as if he hadn't a care in the world, even AF was creakin when ManU won nothin but the CC for 3 years,

but you yourself labeled him as arrogant durin the summer, now you're sayin he's a downtrodden and broken man

The way he talks is arrogant and his stubbornness and his reluctance to change is 100% arrogant

The truth is he is downtrodden and its clear to see. The man is not the same as was, time hasnâ€™t been good to him. He has lost his edge. He used to work alongside high testosterone, physical warriors that would be loud and proud.

Now he works along side little lambs that have no physical attributes. There all tiny in size and tiny in nature. Apart from a minority.

Its quite clear Wenger doesnâ€™t like any player that threatens his position in the pack of little lambs.

Can you imagine if Wenger ignored the defensive duties in the team and made the same mistakes over and over with tactics and positioning with players from yesteryear?

Please explain to me what would Adams, PV, Henry and Keown be saying right now. Would they be quiet in the dressing room, would they question wenger or have a huge influence over the whole squadâ€¦ Fuck yes they would. The whole squad would be looking to these players for inspiration and advise, not the frail old man..

Right now its lovely for wenger, nobody will question him, he acts the father to all the little lambs.. Its all lovely and fluffy

This is why we wont sign the players we need. Even the big German ls quiet and lacks aggression. He always has done his whole career. Its not just about skill level, aggression and loud personalities are equally as important when you want to motivate others.

Who is the only player in our squad that screams with desperation to other playersâ€¦ Its Chesney! The boy going goes fucking nuts screaming at people and the anger when he lets a goal in! Thatâ€™s who should be captain not Alex Fucking thong or even RVP

If I was JD or Kos I would fear for my life if I made a mistake if ches was my captain.

Sadly Wenger doesnâ€™t like this kind of behaviour anymore. So yes the man is frail and looks ill. Its called old age and the denial he feels every time he wakes up in the morning.

Post by **I Hate Hleb** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:32 pm

Nice to hear from you again Belfast Boy.

You see people, B.B. is proof that not all the forum mods are Wenger haters, or dwarfs, or goat-shaggers, or takers of mind-altering substances, or even Spuddy!!

Babatunde · Post by **Babatunde** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:39 pm

Mikey is spot on. With every passing year, Wenger is being exposed as the limited, average manager he truly is. Ever since the old back 5 left - with the exception of one season where we had the Invincibles, AW has proven clueless at the defensive side of the game.
The Invincibles wre held together by Sol Campbell, who arrived on a freebie. If he'd have had to pay monies for him, then forget an unbeaten season. Fact.

Vieira left and the discipline became a joke. The players took the piss, constant wantaway captains, Lassan Diarra throws a strop and Wenger cannot handle it, Cole asks to leave so he gets his wish, to the club he wants, little shits running amok and no one clamps down on them. It is pandemonium, the players take the piss out of Wenger. FFS you had Nasri SHOUTING at Wenger on the plane to the Far East! Result? He is made captain in a game! Laughable.

He is a total pussy I am afraid and ever since Field Marshal Vieira left, it is clear that discipline is non-existent. It is a creche, a nursery with spoilt kids who take the piss and get rewarded by bigger contracts. So long as they pretend to give a shit about his utopian bland futile tippy-tappy bollocks, all is well. He doesn't know how to dsicipline this team, the4-4 Newcastle, and the constant repeated selection of players who are disgraces to the shirt prove this

He cannot handle egos that is why he would never sign a big player. This comment on Chamakh sums Wenger up for me:

'I like him because he is a quiet boy and does not talk too much'.

You hear? He wants automatons. Sadly though, players with personalities tend to be brilliant. Players happy to pick up their cheques and stay silent are not the type of player I want at my club - but the type of player we have in abundance. Making his pet Alex Song CAPTAIN of AFC is up there with the rewarding of mediocrity. It's pathetic.

No discipline in the ranks, Wenger is totally lost, no tactical acumen, no clue how to even beat Brum in a league cup final - and yet when asked why he hasn't hired a defensive coach (days after shipping EIGHT at OT) his response?

'I have been coaching over 20 years, no one can teach me about football management'.

Arrogant. C***.

Yeah Arsene, no one can teach you a thing. How many European trophies you got again Mr Magician? Pfffft....

MadRich · Post by **MadRich** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:53 pm

429 words

Post by **Belfast Boy** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:45 pm

Mikey I'm not here to be an apologist for AW because he has made mistakes like Almunia No1 for 3 yrs

but, and this is just my opinion, the level of hatred shown on here towards AW is completely out of proportion getting to the point were I'm waiting for someone to say he was on a grassy knoll in Dallas a while back before planning 9/11!

Let me make it clear again........ I am not happy with where we are as a club right now, but to suggest that AW deviated from his proven winning formula just so he didn't have to deal with strong characters is pure nonsense, it much more likely that he has looked to La Liga and saw the future and in that respect he was not wrong as Spain are now European and World champs and Barca are arguably the greatest team ever all achieved thru pure quality and not physicality!

AW didn't do the hairdryer treatment back in the old days and doesn't do it now to his "lambs", it's not his style, AF will not accept any dissention in his ranks or you're out the door, even Graham Souness while doin Mon night football took Keys by surprise when he basically announced his retirement from football mangement because he said he was fed up bein backchatted by players who weren't even alive at the end of his career let alone the start of it!

Babatunde quoted AW regarding Chamakh and again the worst is read into it yet it's exactly the same thing that Redknapp said about Modric when he was telling everybody he was a dream to work with which is why he didn't want to let him go and 25M was an insult for such a perfect pro!

Like I said Mikey I fully respect your passion for the club but you have to watch that your frustration or level of hatred doesn't leave you blinkered to the point where it doesn't matter what AW does or sez you will think that he has some underhanded ulterior motive!

PS cheers IHH

Henry Norris 1913 · Post by **Henry Norris 1913** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:37 pm

looks like one of the mods here isn't thinking along the same lines as his mod buddies

it could be one of our longest known members is an AKB!!

won't be long before the rest of the oirish mafia will have found him out. someone will have to "push a button" on him, before he will be sleeping with the fishes!