augie wrote:So to sum up some of that BB, what you are saying re rvp is that the day wenger bollocked him on the sideline was the day rvp's career turned for the better ? Then why does he not bollock his players more often ? I am not advocating hanging them out to dry in public on a continual basis but fcuk me a lot of these guys are on easy street and dont seem to be held accountable at all (at least not in the same way that ferguscum hung wanker evra and the "forgetful" ferdinand out to dry after last suday). As you have already said, I am a long time critic of wenger but even I know that this malaise is not all his fault and on occasions his players are letting him down badly and for me (and I suspect for many Gooners) his softly softly approach with his players plays a major part in their lazy not bothered attitude that we see so frequently on the pitch these days
Don't disagree, and you're right in that the blame has to fall with the players and AW but, he had the same approach to man management when he created the Invincibles, which is why I commented on the importance of having an English core, which Henry admitted made him much more committed to the cause!
augie wrote:You started off that piece by saying that you are not a akb supporter and you then put up a reasonable and passionate defence of the man but for me it was also a selective argument - where have you mention his ineffective tactical plan and his refusal to alter it ? Surely you would also agree that, while winning the champs lge is his big priority, to qualify continually for this comp then you need to build a team able to stand up to the rigours of the 38 game english season or else you will have a team suitable to play champions league football but unable to qualify for it (which could well be this case this season) ? Surely you will also agree that the stack of injuries our players continually pick up is largely down to 2 factors - (1) he keeps buying and picking lightweight players unable to match up physically to the rigours of our league (2) because he basically has no physical players in our midfield and forward lines then these small lightweights have nobody able to win the ball back so they then are expected to do the grafting that players like silva at citeeh are not expected to do as they know exposing silva to these physical opponents is a recipe for disaster and will lead to more injuries.
Augie, some of the above make me think you didn't read my post, I already said I posted on a thread ages ago reagrding our lack of ability or willingness to compete physically which is why I reiterated in my post is AW misguided in trying to emulate Barca because even if he did would they win the EPL due to it's rigours,?????
We all know about his tactics or lack of them what was the point of me discussing them again whent he thread was about strength, character etc??? and anyway we have discussed them numerous times before, he doesn't do them, he believes in a footballing philosophy which Barca are currently the best exponents of, they play the same way every time, and it's about every player playing the same way as Xavi once said "we are attackers who defend and defenders who attack"!
augie wrote:You also omit the argument the by continually selling the family silver (henry, cesc etc) and replacing them with unproven players means that the club is in a constant rebuilding cycle as players we try to build around leave the club thus pushing us back to square one. You can surely also see that players like cesc are driven by the need to win trophies and surrounding them with dodo's like diaby, song, theo etc and asking them to carry these players can only lead to players disillusioned about the direction and ambitions of our club ? This leads nicely to the main point of this thread....the lack of importance and respect the position of captain holds for wenger. You can argue (probably correctly) that wenger hasnt forced out leaders out of our club but it escapes the fact that he doesnt wish to recruit leaders either. Wenger has gone on record that he doesnt like players being bawled at and this is a point he made to pat rice on their first game on the bench together when he famously pointed out that we dont do that anymore
The importance of captain for most of us is that the person is a leader that team-mates will follow - he may not be the best player but is a player that can drag his team over the finishing line by bollocking them on occasions and cajoling them on other occasions and this is a point that wenger completely ignores or fails to grasp. The logical conclusion to draw from that is that wenger wants his players to listen to his voice and his voice only so he deals with that by refusing to sign any player that might offer any opinion that conflicts with his own
Come on Augie when did he ever sell the family silver??? Cesc moved because he felt he was stagnating at Arsenal we all know it and we don't blame him and it was because we are not winning and the buck stops with AW no question!
When we sold Henry everyone was givin off that we only got 16M for him not taking into account that the entire fee was up front equivalent to say 20M over three years particularly when you're payin off large loans as we were, his chronic back problems led to Laporta being heavily criticised for paying too much for a physical wreck who was 30 on his next birthday, and I can clearly remember thinkin at the time if we had sold him a year earlier and got 40M the fans would've been livid that we'd become a selling club!!!
As far as your logical conclusion that he's a dictator who wants to hear nobody's opinion but his own, where did you draw that from??? I'm sorry Augie but it's more like a cynical conclusion to me, he always comments on a players level of intelligence and that he wants them to be free thinkers and sort out problems on the field for themselves which again comes back to his perceived tactical ineptitude!
Everyone who has ever played under the man from Hoddle to Fabregas has never said anything at all that could lead you to that conclusion logically, he is the manager after all which brings me back to my previous point regarding Ferguson, Redknapp and Souness and they were just the ones off the top of my head would you really criticise them as being despotic?
augie wrote: Of course winning matches takes priority over who is the captain but I would suggest that those who mock the principle of this thread are only looking at the very short term. As stated already our club has a rich history of real leaders of men that have made a huge impact in past successes and their contributions as skippers shouldnt be understated. We won on sunday v stoke with song as captain but who among us would have faith in the guy leading us into battle on sat v the chavs or into the atmosphere the inbreds create at the britannia ? Choosing song as skipper last sunday wasnt and wont be a one off and it suggests a belief on wenger's part that he is suitable for the role so perhaps that should be reason alone to worry very seriously about what that will mean in the future for the captaincy of our club whether that be as a result of rvp's departure or his overdue injury
Agree with you there as well, I am also proud of our history in terms of great captains and we do miss that especially thru the current tough times, I'm merely pointing out that the we place more importance on who is capt than any other footballing nation in the world, and we do have some really promising English talent coming thru who will hopefully once more do the armband proud!
So anyway just to finish, we want the same things Augie we both watch the same matches with dismay at our current plight and I call it that cos some things have been sad to see and even harder to stomach, the only difference between you and me is you have become more and more cynical about everything AW does and who knows you might be right, but I think that deep down he believes in what he is tryin to achieve and has the club's best interests at heart and for that reason and that reason alone I am not willing to quite so harsh!
