I BLAME ARSENE WENGER

Cus Geezer · Post by **Cus Geezer** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:32 pm

Ahhhh getting nasty now are we? Somehow I dont think thats something for you to be proud of, given the horrors of the whole thing.

No - just saying it's not new or good, as you implied it was.

Gunnerz4life · Post by **Gunnerz4life** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:36 pm

Cus Geezer wrote:
Ahhhh getting nasty now are we? Somehow I dont think thats something for you to be proud of, given the horrors of the whole thing.
No - just saying it's not new or good, as you implied it was.

Its here to stay and the club doesnt seem to be complaining

. Maybe you should write to the board or something. "10 reasons why Arsenal should not be a global brand and should only have 100,000 odd fans".

Cus Geezer · Post by **Cus Geezer** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:43 pm

Gunnerz4life wrote:
Cus Geezer wrote:
Ahhhh getting nasty now are we? Somehow I dont think thats something for you to be proud of, given the horrors of the whole thing.
No - just saying it's not new or good, as you implied it was.
Its here to stay and the club doesnt seem to be complaining . Maybe you should write to the board or something. "10 reasons why Arsenal should not be a global brand and should only have 100,000 odd fans".

Many on this site have questioned if they have more than 100,000 fans - let's not get the words 'fans' and 'consumers' mixed up because consumers, unlike fans go elsewhere when the product isn't fulfilling their needs.

People who act like not winning the title this season will be the end of the world and how Wenger's got 2 seasons to 'prove himself' certainly show the difference between fandom and consumerism.

dvbrisgooner1 · Post by **dvbrisgooner1** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:45 pm

Cus Geezer wrote:
Gunnerz4life wrote:
Cus Geezer wrote:
Ahhhh getting nasty now are we? Somehow I dont think thats something for you to be proud of, given the horrors of the whole thing.
No - just saying it's not new or good, as you implied it was.
Its here to stay and the club doesnt seem to be complaining . Maybe you should write to the board or something. "10 reasons why Arsenal should not be a global brand and should only have 100,000 odd fans".
Many on this site have questioned if they have more than 100,000 - let's not get the words 'fans' and 'consumers' mixed up because consumers, unlike fans go elsewhere when the product isn't fulfilling their needs.

People who act like not winning the title this eason will be the end of the world and how Wenger's got 2 seasons to 'prove himself' certainly show the difference between fandom and consumerism.

Oh fuck off Cus. Wenger isn't bigger than the club. If we win nothing in the next two years do you honestly think he can stay at Arsenal?

Cus Geezer · Post by **Cus Geezer** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:49 pm

He's certainly done more than enough to grant him the credit of patience to get it right - which he will with time. Some people here just have short memories or are just outright ungrateful.

And Busby and Shankley went a couple of seasons without winning a trophy without effecting their legacies in any way.

Gunnerz4life · Post by **Gunnerz4life** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:53 pm

Cus Geezer wrote:
Gunnerz4life wrote:
Cus Geezer wrote:
Ahhhh getting nasty now are we? Somehow I dont think thats something for you to be proud of, given the horrors of the whole thing.
No - just saying it's not new or good, as you implied it was.
Its here to stay and the club doesnt seem to be complaining . Maybe you should write to the board or something. "10 reasons why Arsenal should not be a global brand and should only have 100,000 odd fans".
Many on this site have questioned if they have more than 100,000 - let's not get the words 'fans' and 'consumers' mixed up because consumers, unlike fans go elsewhere when the product isn't fulfilling their needs.

People who act like not winning the title will be the end of the world and how Wenger's got 2 seasons to 'prove himself' certainly show the difference between fandom and consumerism.

Like I said, if i were a consumer, I would have changed brands while back

. You replied to it saying you been a fan since 1985, which is great but had nothing to do with what I said (it has to be a habit to post pointless things for you).

Well if you think not agreeing with the manager all the time makes you a consumer, then well thats your stupidity mate and I cant reason with stupidity

.

I wonder what will happen when Arsene does leave one day, which he will someday, maybe we will be fighting relegation.

Gunnerz4life · Post by **Gunnerz4life** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:02 pm

Cus Geezer wrote:He's certainly done more than enough to grant him the credit of patience to get it right - which he will with time. Some people here just have short memories or are just outright ungrateful.

And Busby and Shankley went a couple of seasons without winning a trophy without effecting their legacies in any way.

Is it really hard to believe that sometimes theres a possibility a manager can only take a club so far after some time? If thats the case, thats not being ungrateful, thats being realistic. A couple of seasons without any trophies, might even make Arsene start feeling that, forget the fans.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:09 pm

26may1989 wrote:
Rob wrote:We desperately needed a mobile central defender and a winger in August. If Wenger had not been so stupid/stubbon it could make the difference between us winning something and finishing also rans - again!

Now we need those two, at least one forward, a defensive CM and a left sided defender at the minimum. The chances of Wenger realising even half that are zero. Read his programme notes from yesterday. He could not wait to get his denial in about making any signing to cover for Eduardo, in the summer. It was an astonishing thing to say with the guy barely starting to heal and facing 9 months out.

I am not calling for Wenger to go - yet. But I am calling for him to change tack. He's had four years of this policy of teenage promotions and negative spending and we've won nothing since Pat left. And we won't until we start to seriously address the squad deficiences we clearly have.
I don't agree with rebel's views but I can see where he's coming from, but some of the comments here about Wenger that are ridiculous. "Stupid"? With the greatest of respect Rob, what the fuck do you know?? Got a football coaching badge, have you? Trained championship-winning teams, have you? Disagree with Wenger all you like, but don't insult someone whose talent you can only dream of. If it weren't for Wenger, we wouldn't be arguing about being also-rans, we'd be the mid fucking table nonentities we were before he arrived.

Perhaps it's just heat of the moment, but get a grip. We're not playing well and we've dropped four important points in the last week, but we're still top and have some important players coming back form injury. There's plenty of football to be played yet.

Hmmmm.....May 26th 1989. Correct me if I'm wrong (Again !) but we weren't mid table also rans then were we ? And we weren't managed by Wenger either ?!

Some people need to see the difference between Club and an individual connected therewith.

augie · Post by **augie** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:19 pm

Cus Geezer wrote:
Gunnerz4life wrote:
Cus Geezer wrote:
Ahhhh getting nasty now are we? Somehow I dont think thats something for you to be proud of, given the horrors of the whole thing.
No - just saying it's not new or good, as you implied it was.
Its here to stay and the club doesnt seem to be complaining . Maybe you should write to the board or something. "10 reasons why Arsenal should not be a global brand and should only have 100,000 odd fans".
Many on this site have questioned if they have more than 100,000 fans - let's not get the words 'fans' and 'consumers' mixed up because consumers, unlike fans go elsewhere when the product isn't fulfilling their needs.

People who act like not winning the title this season will be the end of the world and how Wenger's got 2 seasons to 'prove himself' certainly show the difference between fandom and consumerism.

Cus are you for real

History shows us all that nobody and I mean nobody is irreplaceable including Arsene Wenger. You are around long enough to have got the tail end of our pre george graham famine and what he acheived back then, especially given the liverpool monopoly, was outstanding but most fans have long since forgotten his contribution to the club. At the end of his era the fans had turned against him despite the successes he brought but somehow you think wenger should be judged by a totally different set of rules ? Everybody in any walk of life has a shelf life and the debate is now whether wenger has outlived his but you want to argue that he be allowed carry on with his own agenda for an unlimited amount of time

The whole move to the emirates was pitched to the fans on the theory that it would allow the club to compete with the madrid's,milans and barcalona's of this world. If it is true that wenger has money to spend but has refused to do so and this refusal to buy has a direct cause on our inability to win trophies then I am afraid that means the boss should come under the same scrutiny that any other manager gets - he is after all there to serve the club and not his own ego

Cus Geezer · Post by **Cus Geezer** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:19 pm

Like I said, if i were a consumer, I would have changed brands while back .

You seem to think following Arsenal since 1994 has been a journey through thick and thin. As I've pointed out there hasn't been much thin.

Well if you think not agreeing with the manager all the time makes you a consumer, then well thats your stupidity mate and I cant reason with stupidity .

No being quite clearly wrong and lacking any degree of npatience with a developing side makes you wrong. And as for reasoning with stupidity, well funnily enough the feeling is mutual

Is it really hard to believe that sometimes theres a possibility a manager can only take a club so far after some time? If thats the case, thats not being ungrateful, thats being realistic. A couple of seasons without any trophies, might even make Arsene start feeling that, forget the fans.

if you've been an avid fan since 1994 as you claim, you'd have familiarity with the back end of the Graham era and you'd know that the current side is nowhere near that.

And of course with your own measurement for what constitutes failure you wouldn't have even recognised the moribund nature of the back end of the Graham era since he won three trophies in two seasons and hence infinitely superior to Wenger.

Gunnerz4life · Post by **Gunnerz4life** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:22 pm

augie wrote:
Cus Geezer wrote:
Gunnerz4life wrote:
Cus Geezer wrote:
Ahhhh getting nasty now are we? Somehow I dont think thats something for you to be proud of, given the horrors of the whole thing.
No - just saying it's not new or good, as you implied it was.
Its here to stay and the club doesnt seem to be complaining . Maybe you should write to the board or something. "10 reasons why Arsenal should not be a global brand and should only have 100,000 odd fans".
Many on this site have questioned if they have more than 100,000 fans - let's not get the words 'fans' and 'consumers' mixed up because consumers, unlike fans go elsewhere when the product isn't fulfilling their needs.

People who act like not winning the title this season will be the end of the world and how Wenger's got 2 seasons to 'prove himself' certainly show the difference between fandom and consumerism.
Cus are you for real History shows us all that nobody and I mean nobody is irreplaceable including Arsene Wenger. You are around long enough to have got the tail end of our pre george graham famine and what he acheived back then, especially given the liverpool monopoly, was outstanding but most fans have long since forgotten his contribution to the club. At the end of his era the fans had turned against him despite the successes he brought but somehow you think wenger should be judged by a totally different set of rules ? Everybody in any walk of life has a shelf life and the debate is now whether wenger has outlived his but you want to argue that he be allowed carry on with his own agenda for an unlimited amount of time

The whole move to the emirates was pitched to the fans on the theory that it would allow the club to compete with the madrid's,milans and barcalona's of this world. If it is true that wenger has money to spend but has refused to do so and this refusal to buy has a direct cause on our inability to win trophies then I am afraid that means the boss should come under the same scrutiny that any other manager gets - he is after all there to serve the club and not his own ego

You know you're in danger of being branded a consumer right?

Cus Geezer · Post by **Cus Geezer** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:24 pm

Augie - we've been extremely lucky to have had two truly great managers in quick succession.

What makes you think that it is as inevitable as day following night that we'll get a third.

The only club that has changed managers and continued success was Liverpool in the 70's/80s, there isn't really another such precedent.

In fact some clubs with a long period under one manager end up in decline after they've gone - i.e. Clough with Forest, Busby with United, Tottenham with Nicholson.

Cus Geezer · Post by **Cus Geezer** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:30 pm

Everybody in any walk of life has a shelf life and the debate is now whether wenger has outlived his but you want to argue that he be allowed carry on with his own agenda for an unlimited amount of time

No you're talking through your hat.

Wenger has has not by any means outlived his shelf life, you're writing him off on the basis of two draws for fuck sake.

Now give the name of this great messiah who will show Wenger how it's done, seeing that you think he's past his shelf life?

augie · Post by **augie** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:36 pm

Cus Geezer wrote:

if you've been an avid fan since 1994 as you claim, you'd have familiarity with the back end of the Graham era and you'd know that the current side is nowhere near that.

And of course with your own measurement for what constitutes failure you wouldn't have even recognised the moribund nature of the back end of the Graham era since he won three trophies in two seasons and hence infinitely superior to Wenger.

Cus what exactly represents progression/improvement in your eyes ? You compare wengers current team with the teams of Gg's last few years which is hardly a fair comparison given that football has changed dramatically since then. However how about we compare them to some of wengers recent teams instead and see how many current players would make the grade -

almunia : have we had a worse keeper in the last 20 years as a 1st
choice? I fcuking doubt it
sagna : in my opinion could quite possibly be the best right back in aw's
era
clichy : might be as good as nutty but not there yet
kolo & gallas : good defenders but have to say that TA6 with keown
automatic for me
wingers : not one of our current lot would get in ahead of pires & freddie
centre midfield : PV4 would be an automatic and it would be close between
cesc & petit to partner him
strikers : me personally I'd go with DB10 and anelka but I know others
would go with henry ahead of anelka but eitherways it leaves
ade,rvp and bedtner very much out in the cold.

If you agree with the above then you have to say that we have maybe 3 current players good enough to make our starting 11 from just 4 years ago so how is that progress ? The talk about potential gets on my tits cos when you look at rvp,diaby,senderos etc you should quickly realise that sometimes dreams just dont come through

Gunnerz4life · Post by **Gunnerz4life** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:42 pm

Cus Geezer wrote:
Like I said, if i were a consumer, I would have changed brands while back .
You seem to think following Arsenal since 1994 has been a journey through thick and thin. As I've pointed out there hasn't been much thin.

Well if you think not agreeing with the manager all the time makes you a consumer, then well thats your stupidity mate and I cant reason with stupidity .
No being quite clearly wrong and lacking any degree of npatience with a developing side makes you wrong. And as for reasoning with stupidity, well funnily enough the feeling is mutual

Is it really hard to believe that sometimes theres a possibility a manager can only take a club so far after some time? If thats the case, thats not being ungrateful, thats being realistic. A couple of seasons without any trophies, might even make Arsene start feeling that, forget the fans.

if you've been an avid fan since 1994 as you claim, you'd have familiarity with the back end of the Graham era and you'd know that the current side is nowhere near that.

And of course with your own measurement for what constitutes failure you wouldn't have even recognised the moribund nature of the back end of the Graham era since he won three trophies in two seasons and hence infinitely superior to Wenger.

There has been enough thin since 1994 mate for a consumer to change brands, including a 3 year period you mentioned earlier.

And patience has a limit, dont you think. Unless you have unlimited patience and will be happy to do a spuds and win another trophy in 10 years.

And I am familiar with the back end of the George Graham era. And in no way do I think GG was a better manager than Wenger. Though they both won the same number of trophies, Arsene won the major ones more. But as I keep saying its silly to be comparing the situation then to situation now. As Augie said if GG could have been sacked after his successes, then why not Arsene? 4-5 seasons without trophies would leave is in a moribund condition.