Goetze saga

As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
Locked
User avatar
g88ner
Posts: 14693
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 8:17 pm

Post by g88ner »

Tomáš wrote:G If he leaves he will do so after the Euro 2012 and then he will go to a big money spender club and please don't take it personal but this will not be Arsenal.
I think the same.

Even if Dortmund reluctantly sell Goetze, it would make no sense whatsoever to do it before Euro 2012 (assuming he's not entering the last year of his contract?). If he stars in that competition, his price will rocket further and, if he's not already out of Arsenal's reach, he would certainly be if he plays well at the Euro's.

But, you know what? sod it, fuck common sense.... he's joining us, and it's about time you got used to that, Tomas. Let go. He's ours. :lol:

GermanBlue
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:54 pm
Location: Germany

Post by GermanBlue »

I Hate Hleb wrote:To be fair Thomas he has been linked with Arsenal - certainly in the British press - since the summer and not just because of the CL draw.
Normal routine that a young, talented player is linked with several European top clubs, isn't it? He has been linked with Arsenal, Man Utd, Real Madrid. Oliver Bierhoff, Germany's team manager, literally offered him in Italian media.

As I said before, he will leave sooner or later. If Arsenal will be an option for him, depends on their league position. Götze said he wants to play Champions League regulary and at the moment Dortmund's chances to qualify again are higher than Arsenal's.

User avatar
SteveO 35
Posts: 22157
Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 7:01 pm
Location: Abou's fan club

Post by SteveO 35 »

Tomáš wrote:Give me one reason why Mario Götze should play for Arsenal?
I don't see that happen and I does not matter how many links to third class web sides you are posting. I think these rumors have a lot to do with the clash on Wednesday, to put some disturbance into the squad.
Götze has a contract and he will play this season for Borussia, he will probably score on Wednesday, like he scored yesterday against Bayern. If he leaves he will do so after the Euro 2012 and then he will go to a big money spender club and please don't take it personal but this will not be Arsenal.

BYW,
Thomas
Money. And we would pay him more per week than you do. But I also agree that if Chelsea, Man City, either of the Milans, or either of the top two in Spain come in for him, he won't sign for us.

I don't know what your top players earn in a week. He could get £80,000 per week here. At Chelsea, Real or Barca its probably double that amount, and at City whatever number the Arabic calculator comes up with.

So one reason - money. Footballers are greedy bastards. Fact. He probably kisses the Dortmund badge when he scores. Nasri and Adebayor used to kiss their badge too

User avatar
g88ner
Posts: 14693
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 8:17 pm

Post by g88ner »

SteveO 35 wrote: So one reason - money. Footballers are greedy bastards. Fact. He probably kisses the Dortmund badge when he scores. Nasri and Adebayor used to kiss their badge too
Footballers are greedy bastards??? - are you sure it's not most human beings???!! after all, do you really think footballers are worse than your average man on the street? would most people put loyalty to a company ahead of doubling a wage packet? - I don't think so.

In any case, you can't rule out AMBITION as a reason for joining these high paying clubs, because you normally find that the highest wages are paid by the clubs who have the best chance of winning trophies.

Now, if Goezte goes and does a Samuel Eto'o and signs for that Russian club in the middle of nowhere for £300k a week, then I think you can say "he went for the money", but if you join one of the best clubs in the world like Barca, ManUre, Citeh, etc. then ambition must certainly be a consideration before labelling them negatively, should it?

User avatar
SteveO 35
Posts: 22157
Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 7:01 pm
Location: Abou's fan club

Post by SteveO 35 »

g88ner wrote:
SteveO 35 wrote: So one reason - money. Footballers are greedy bastards. Fact. He probably kisses the Dortmund badge when he scores. Nasri and Adebayor used to kiss their badge too
Footballers are greedy bastards??? - are you sure it's not most human beings???!! after all, do you really think footballers are worse than your average man on the street? would most people put loyalty to a company ahead of doubling a wage packet? - I don't think so.

In any case, you can't rule out AMBITION as a reason for joining these high paying clubs, because you normally find that the highest wages are paid by the clubs who have the best chance of winning trophies.

Now, if Goezte goes and does a Samuel Eto'o and signs for that Russian club in the middle of nowhere for £300k a week, then I think you can say "he went for the money", but if you join one of the best clubs in the world like Barca, ManUre, Citeh, etc. then ambition must certainly be a consideration before labelling them negatively, should it?
Freddie Ljungberg joining trophy laden West Ham for £80k per week, David Beckham joining the MLS with all of the US's commercial trappings when he could still have signed for a number of clubs in Europe (and now reportedly joining PSG....hmm, wonder why...must be 'ambition'), Tevez leaving United when they were still considerably ahead of City (now't to do with 200k per week), Yaya Toure leaving the best club side in world football for Citeh also (again now't to do with 220k per week - still he has now won the FA Cup to put those CL and La Liga medals in the shade). Nicolas Anelka's moves to Fenerbahce and Bolton were presumably all about winning trophies too (or was it that they bust their pay structures to sign him)

I take the point you make to an extent, but take mine also. For every one that leaves for genuine 'ambition' there is a greedy, badge kissing twat that conveniently uses that word when negotiating the next big pay deal. I'm sure all the players lining up that glamour move to PSG are going for the 'ambition' of conquering the universally acclaimed French league.

MadRich
Posts: 298
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:29 pm
Location: LONDON

Post by MadRich »

SteveO 35 wrote:
g88ner wrote:
SteveO 35 wrote: So one reason - money. Footballers are greedy bastards. Fact. He probably kisses the Dortmund badge when he scores. Nasri and Adebayor used to kiss their badge too
Footballers are greedy bastards??? - are you sure it's not most human beings???!! after all, do you really think footballers are worse than your average man on the street? would most people put loyalty to a company ahead of doubling a wage packet? - I don't think so.

In any case, you can't rule out? AMBITION as a reason for joining these high paying clubs, because you normally find that the highest wages are paid by the clubs who have the best chance of winning trophies.

Now, if Goezte goes and does a Samuel Eto'o and signs for that Russian club in the middle of nowhere for £300k a week, then I think you can say "he went for the money", but if you join one of the best clubs in the world like Barca, ManUre, Citeh, etc. then ambition must certainly be a consideration before labelling them negatively, should it?
Freddie Ljungberg joining trophy laden West Ham for £80k per week, David Beckham joining the MLS with all of the US's commercial trappings when he could still have signed for a number of clubs in Europe (and now reportedly joining PSG....hmm, wonder why...must be 'ambition'), Tevez leaving United when they were still considerably ahead of City (now't to do with 200k per week), Yaya Toure leaving the best club side in world football for Citeh also (again now't to do with 220k per week - still he has now won the FA Cup to put those CL and La Liga medals in the shade). Nicolas Anelka's moves to Fenerbahce and Bolton were presumably all about winning trophies too (or was it that they bust their pay structures to sign him)

I take the point you make to an extent, but take mine also. For every one that leaves for genuine 'ambition' there is a greedy, badge kissing twat that conveniently uses that word when negotiating the next big pay deal. I'm sure all the players lining up that glamour move to PSG are going for the 'ambition' of conquering the universally acclaimed French league.


Im not trying to defend the players, but they is more to a move than money and loyality.
Sometimes rifts happen between players and manager/team,
and thats the case for Tevez, Yaya, Anelka,etc.
Even for Davd Beckham, he probably wanted to explore his "brand" and to some degree successed because most people didnt know sqatt about MLS prior to Beckham...
He options to joined a number of clubs on the same paypacket, given his marketing power, but chose LAG, also they was a rift between him, the manager and to add Posh want a move to LA to further her film career.

Most footballers are just like everyone, we work for our company, some harder than others, but if someone offers more money, decent prospects, we're off.
To add footballer's careers are very short, so the am is to earn as much money in the shortest time period.
Also fans are in no right to question loyality, e.g AW has been great for AFC, but we all want him out because he has gone past his sell by date.

If RVP goes on a 20 game drought, everyone would be calling for his head, and probably saying he scored against shit teams, etc.

User avatar
g88ner
Posts: 14693
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 8:17 pm

Post by g88ner »

SteveO 35 wrote: Freddie Ljungberg joining trophy laden West Ham for £80k per week, David Beckham joining the MLS with all of the US's commercial trappings when he could still have signed for a number of clubs in Europe (and now reportedly joining PSG....hmm, wonder why...must be 'ambition'), Tevez leaving United when they were still considerably ahead of City (now't to do with 200k per week), Yaya Toure leaving the best club side in world football for Citeh also (again now't to do with 220k per week - still he has now won the FA Cup to put those CL and La Liga medals in the shade). Nicolas Anelka's moves to Fenerbahce and Bolton were presumably all about winning trophies too (or was it that they bust their pay structures to sign him)

I take the point you make to an extent, but take mine also. For every one that leaves for genuine 'ambition' there is a greedy, badge kissing twat that conveniently uses that word when negotiating the next big pay deal. I'm sure all the players lining up that glamour move to PSG are going for the 'ambition' of conquering the universally acclaimed French league.
Oh, I agree. There's plenty of examples in football... and everyday life. Even amongst familiy and friends. It's human nature, after all.

Can I ask, how does a top class young footballer playing at Cardiff or Rotherham (or even Everton or Arsenal) - who doesn't feel their current club can match their ambition - get to fulfil their ambition of playing for the world's greatest clubs and winning the games greatest prizes without being labelled greedy by supporters?

Is it possible? after all, moving to a better, more ambitious clubs, almost always means a pay rise... often substantially.

It looks like a minefield to me, where they're being criticised at every turn by someone...heck, I know some Everton fans who despise Rooney for joining ManUre "for the money" - but did he? really?! I think he joined for ambition, myself. And it's worked out for him.

Even on this forum, Cesc - Catalan born and bred - has been labelled greedy by some.... for joining his home town club who are the best, and most exciting, in the world.... perhaps EVER! - yet to some, he left for the money. Crazy.

GermanBlue
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:54 pm
Location: Germany

Post by GermanBlue »

SteveO 35 wrote:And we would pay him more per week than you do. [...]I don't know what your top players earn in a week. He could get £80,000 per week here.
Dortmund's top earner Sebastian Kehl is currently earning around £65k. I understand Dortmund is ready to pay Götze much more than that. As mentioned before, they are currently contacting sponsors to see how many extra funds they could get to afford a contract extension.

The club's general director already said the other players would understand if they would break the wage structure for Götze. So I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up with a new contract until, lets say 2016 and £90-100k per week.

Babatunde
Posts: 2274
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 11:03 pm
Location: London

Post by Babatunde »

Good points both SteveO and G88ner.
Bottom line is, Goetze will never join Arsenal as there are better bigger clubs, with superior managers out there who will develop him better.
I had to laugh when I saw that Arsenal offered to double Goetze's current £20k per week wages. LOL.
Great offer: hey, come to Arsenal and earn less than Vela, Song, Denilson, Diaby, Almunia, Squillaci, Chamakh and Bendtner!!
Perhaps if you learn to be a quiet boy like Chamakh, one day you'll get paid like Chamakh :lol:

User avatar
SteveO 35
Posts: 22157
Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 7:01 pm
Location: Abou's fan club

Post by SteveO 35 »

Babatunde wrote:Good points both SteveO and G88ner.
Bottom line is, Goetze will never join Arsenal as there are better bigger clubs, with superior managers out there who will develop him better.
I had to laugh when I saw that Arsenal offered to double Goetze's current £20k per week wages. LOL.
Great offer: hey, come to Arsenal and earn less than Vela, Song, Denilson, Diaby, Almunia, Squillaci, Chamakh and Bendtner!!
Perhaps if you learn to be a quiet boy like Chamakh, one day you'll get paid like Chamakh :lol:
You keep treading on that same old rake with me Baba

...you build me up baby...just to let me down... :D

User avatar
Tomáš
Posts: 618
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:43 pm
Location: Dortmund

Post by Tomáš »

Well, I think almost every young player from us is currently target somewhere else ;-)…
Borussia has built a young, talented squad and of course the players can earn more money somewhere else…
So as we have a saying Germany (trying to do a translation) ‘Every week there is another big which is being driven through the village’
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/footbal ... efault.stm
So what…
Götze like all the other players have at least a long term contract, so if anybody wants to get him they have to pay a lot of money to the club, to the player and also the players manager. Nuri Sahin was the only player who had a stupid exit condition and so Real Madrid got him for 10 Million Euro, a bargain.
Besides the money, there is another important argument why Götze will not join Arsenal. He wants to play next year champions league and I don’t think that Arsenal will get a champions league seat next season, sorry for that ;-).
In the end it is not about a player it is all about the club! Players will come and go, the club will stay!
BYW,
Thomas

User avatar
SteveO 35
Posts: 22157
Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 7:01 pm
Location: Abou's fan club

Post by SteveO 35 »

g88ner wrote:
SteveO 35 wrote: Freddie Ljungberg joining trophy laden West Ham for £80k per week, David Beckham joining the MLS with all of the US's commercial trappings when he could still have signed for a number of clubs in Europe (and now reportedly joining PSG....hmm, wonder why...must be 'ambition'), Tevez leaving United when they were still considerably ahead of City (now't to do with 200k per week), Yaya Toure leaving the best club side in world football for Citeh also (again now't to do with 220k per week - still he has now won the FA Cup to put those CL and La Liga medals in the shade). Nicolas Anelka's moves to Fenerbahce and Bolton were presumably all about winning trophies too (or was it that they bust their pay structures to sign him)

I take the point you make to an extent, but take mine also. For every one that leaves for genuine 'ambition' there is a greedy, badge kissing twat that conveniently uses that word when negotiating the next big pay deal. I'm sure all the players lining up that glamour move to PSG are going for the 'ambition' of conquering the universally acclaimed French league.
Oh, I agree. There's plenty of examples in football... and everyday life. Even amongst familiy and friends. It's human nature, after all.

Can I ask, how does a top class young footballer playing at Cardiff or Rotherham (or even Everton or Arsenal) - who doesn't feel their current club can match their ambition - get to fulfil their ambition of playing for the world's greatest clubs and winning the games greatest prizes without being labelled greedy by supporters?

Is it possible? after all, moving to a better, more ambitious clubs, almost always means a pay rise... often substantially.

It looks like a minefield to me, where they're being criticised at every turn by someone...heck, I know some Everton fans who despise Rooney for joining ManUre "for the money" - but did he? really?! I think he joined for ambition, myself. And it's worked out for him.

Even on this forum, Cesc - Catalan born and bred - has been labelled greedy by some.... for joining his home town club who are the best, and most exciting, in the world.... perhaps EVER! - yet to some, he left for the money. Crazy.
g88ner, I think we're in violent agreement mate. I certainly wouldn't label any of our famous back line greedy bastards - Dixon, Winterburn, Bould and Lukic (yep people forget the guy) plus Seaman - all left smaller clubs to join us. Anyone labelling them greedy back in the day would be deluded. Similarly I don't think Cesc is being greedy either: I genuinely believe that a 150k per week wage would not have kept him here. He gave it 8 years and won next to nothing and his boyhood club are winning everything. I don't call that greed

Adebayor however joined City as one of the first band of mercenaries before there were any chances of trophy success. The other examples I mentioned I put into that bracket too. There are plenty of others but we would be here all night. Look at someone like Winston Bogarde at Chelsea - he was on 80k per week and played about a dozen games. His team may have been winning trophies but he wasn't getting any personal medals and allegedly shunned countless offers from sides on the continent where he could have won domestic honours, played regularly but probably on half the wage.

It cuts both ways I think.

User avatar
Tomáš
Posts: 618
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:43 pm
Location: Dortmund

Post by Tomáš »

Money. And we would pay him more per week than you do.


=> Yepp...but Arsenal can not pay more then:
Real Madrid (maybe Mourinho wants the german middflied with Özil and Götze)
Barca (maybe Götze wants to play with Messi)
ManUtd
ManCity
Team Dubai (formally known as Getafe) :wink:
Italian clubs will be out...they are running out of money
Maybe one russian club...but it is too cold :wink:
and of course Bayern Munich (maybe Ulli Hoeness wants the best german player and like Manuel Neuer he will not let him go to England)

so...no chance...

User avatar
Tomáš
Posts: 618
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:43 pm
Location: Dortmund

Post by Tomáš »

GermanBlue wrote:
SteveO 35 wrote:And we would pay him more per week than you do. [...]I don't know what your top players earn in a week. He could get £80,000 per week here.
Dortmund's top earner Sebastian Kehl is currently earning around £65k. I understand Dortmund is ready to pay Götze much more than that. As mentioned before, they are currently contacting sponsors to see how many extra funds they could get to afford a contract extension.

The club's general director already said the other players would understand if they would break the wage structure for Götze. So I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up with a new contract until, lets say 2016 and £90-100k per week.
But you have to keep the squad in balance! Borussia will not pay one or two, three good players exceptional more then other players in the squad. If the player wants to earn more then the club is willing to pay then you have to let go.

User avatar
SteveO 35
Posts: 22157
Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 7:01 pm
Location: Abou's fan club

Post by SteveO 35 »

Tomáš wrote:Money. And we would pay him more per week than you do.


=> Yepp...but Arsenal can not pay more then:
Real Madrid (maybe Mourinho wants the german middflied with Özil and Götze)
Barca (maybe Götze wants to play with Messi)
ManUtd
ManCity
Team Dubai (formally known as Getafe) :wink:
Italian clubs will be out...they are running out of money
Maybe one russian club...but it is too cold :wink:
and of course Bayern Munich (maybe Ulli Hoeness wants the best german player and like Manuel Neuer he will not let him go to England)

so...no chance...
Fuck me fella, can u read. Didn't I say exactly that in my response.

Personally I couldn't give a shit if he signs for us or not.

Locked