Out of touch

[richpye]

I never hear who should replace Wenger though

how about AVB?

And this is one of my main points. I am probably classed as an AKB C*nt because I don't think he should be dragged naked attached to the back of a Ford Ranger through the state of Arkansas, but I have never heard a sensible suggestion as an alternative to Wenger.

So far the main suggestions have been:

AVB - Working well that one so far
Guardiola - Yeah, of course we have a chance

I hate to bring up the late great USMartin, but I am fairly certain the current chief executive is our main problem as he is a commercial man, not a football man i.e. Wenger has no-one to manage him.

Secondly, what needs to happen, is we must get a good replacement for Pat Rice. I would love someone like Owen Coyle, but not sure if this is really viable.

And whilst I do not possess the means to attend Arsenal matches either home or away, I know plenty of people who do and to suggest that they only started following Arsenal in 1998 or have no idea of the pre-Wenger era is just insulting to a lot of people.

Saying that, I do believe everyone is entitled to their opinion

Right.

So what you're saying, is that there isn't a single manager available anywhere in Europe, who could do better than to qualify in 4th position, with a wage bill approaching £120 million, and a transfer budget of over £70 million. That is your serious suggestion is it?

And what kind of defence of AW is it that 'who would you replace him with?'

He's either good enough or not. But to claim that because you're not imaginative enough to come up with anyone better, that it's a case for him to remain is ridiculous, classic AKB logic (not calling you an AKB. But saying the 'logic' is).

The funny thing is, before Wenger arrived, not one of his apologists would have been able to name him as an alternative replacement. Yet he came in.

So there is bound to be any manager out there, that is smart enough to realise you do not play 4-5-1 at home to Sunderland/Blackburn/Wolves, that you do not wait until you've chucked league points before getting a settled team in summer, that you do not sell your best players without replacing them, that you do teach defending, that you study the opposition, and that you do not surrender a 4-0 lead, and that you do nto EVER, under any circumstances, lose 8-2 at Old Trafford.

If you genuinely think there isn't a manager out there capable of outdoing Wenger - when even under your very noses Harry fucking Redknapp is fighting for the league title and producing a team that plays excellent football, with a wage bill over £40 million lower....if you think there is not a single manaer in world football who can better SEVEN YEARS WITHOUT A SINGLE TROPHY; then you are totally out of your mind.

Oh and one last thing.

A replacement for Wenger is not the fans' job. It's the club's. So when the Wengerites say 'who would you replace him with' it is a stupid, moot argument. Since the job of replacing him isn't the fans. It's the club's job.

When Graham was sacked, none of you would have thought of Wenger. So there are tons of managers out there who can outdo the utter garbage we see right now. Look at what Jurgen Klopp has done at Dortmund with fuck all money? Look at the players he has turned out?

PLEASE.

Ok, fairly certain Wenger didn't replace George Graham. But you're right I wouldn't have thought of him regardless.

And yes it isn't up to the fans to replace Wenger, but if you feel it's your job to act as judge, jury and executioner, you also need to suggest alternatives. Solutions are the way forward, not just moaning about the problem. Of course, with your close affiliation to Tottenham, maybe you prefer Anarchy?

I don't need to think of anyone who can do a better job than Wenger, on the whole I think he is still the best man for the job - I, unlike you, have already suggested my way forward.

Complete agree with the change of tactics as already suggested in one of the Transfer topics, I really really want us to sign another striker - a good one. I am still not 100% who though

Also agree about the current state of the wage bill, but again I do believe this is the Chief Executive's job (or at least someone else). "This Denilson Kid Arsene, £60k a week was it? We were thinking £6???"

And the time without a trophy is largely irrelevant. I haven't been around as long as others, but I still had to suffer the days at school after losing to the likes of Luton. We have had other trophy barren periods before and we have no god given right to trophies every couple of years.

[DUFFMAN]

^^^

Or £13m on mata

Or £5m on Parker

Or £8m on van der vaart

Or £3m on given

Easy to make the point .....£50m for Torres.
Not every big buy is a dud like him, just like not every cheap signing has to be a French/African child that has mental strength and potential.

[1989]

But you're right, maybe we should spend £35m on Carroll, or £50m on Torres?

Or £22m on Mata? £25m on Silva? £26m on Suarez? £35m on Aguero?

Funny how you chose to highlight the big money flops, while conveniently ignoring their successeful equivalents.

[donaldo]

No i dont want us to sign big like other "big" clubs in Europe do.I want us to sign cheap like Squillaci Chamakh and Park.And bring old players back like Campbell Lehmann and Henry

Roughly...Nasri cost £15; Arshavin cost £15m; Gervinho cost £10.5m - that's big money. There are suggestions that there are a few other £10m signings (TV; PM etc etc). But you're right, maybe we should spend £35m on Carroll, or £50m on Torres?

Or £24m on Suarez.Mata was available at £17m Having made £41m on Toure/Adebayor

Our wage bill is £110m with our best paid player on £90k a week.Work it out.Why do you think we cant get rid of Bendtner Denilson Almunia and Diaby?because no one can afford their wages

£90k a week is nothing compared to what some other teams pay their top players.

If our highest earner is on £90k a week and our wage bill is £110m work out how much shit like Diaby is on

[Robsy]

Robsy..."I'm tired of all the negative shit..." zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Trot off back to Arsenal Mania then.

Never seen/heard of AM before, looks interesting.

[Number 5]

For me it is this simple.

For 5 years now we have been moving backwards. That's it.

United or Chelsea haven't been making massive forward leaps. City have but only for the first 3 months of this season.

It is a myth that we are being financially pummelled by those clubs and this alone is affecting our league position.

We have regressed too far back now to be able to catch up again any time in the next 5 years. It is not becasuse of their success coming from playing superior football/buying better players than we can.

The single greatest club football side England has ever seen was dismantled and replaced on the cheap.

What is not to understand when you do that?

Things are going to fuck up.

[TeeCee]

Wengers philosophy is not to win titles. His primary objective is to buy potential and sell on for huge sums, generating maximum profit.
Of course he wants to keep us top 4 whilst doing this, and previously he has done it because of the poor standard of the PL. This is why he said 4th place is better than winning a cup, because CL qualifications worth £20m minimum. Winning a cup might make you a couple of million. He's not interested in winning a cup if it jeopardizes that 20m, that's why he'll throw the FA cup this season again.
Wenger still believes he is the best manager in the country, performing miracles against all the nasty clubs that spend lots of money, and that's another reason why he won't go on a spending spree next month, because if he does it's another excuse he has for his failure out the window.
Wenger is a loser, a failure, and the reason our club is fucked, and he'll walk away when we don't qualify for the CL and leave us with all the shit and baggage that he's brought upon us. *word censored* of the highest order.

[Number 5]

One thing I will agree with Wenger on is that the FA and Carling Cups aren't worth going all out for.

As long as the Champions League is worth £20m minimum it has to be the minimum target, but that's more about the way European football has gone over the last 10 years.

The other thing he will do is spend on the young talent, perhaps not always to churn out big bucks on the resale, but more because he knows the minimum he will get if it don't work out is his money back. The only exception I can think of being Arshavin, even Reyes he got most of it back.

[Babatunde]

I never hear who should replace Wenger though

how about AVB?

And this is one of my main points. I am probably classed as an AKB C*nt because I don't think he should be dragged naked attached to the back of a Ford Ranger through the state of Arkansas, but I have never heard a sensible suggestion as an alternative to Wenger.

So far the main suggestions have been:

AVB - Working well that one so far
Guardiola - Yeah, of course we have a chance

I hate to bring up the late great USMartin, but I am fairly certain the current chief executive is our main problem as he is a commercial man, not a football man i.e. Wenger has no-one to manage him.

Secondly, what needs to happen, is we must get a good replacement for Pat Rice. I would love someone like Owen Coyle, but not sure if this is really viable.

And whilst I do not possess the means to attend Arsenal matches either home or away, I know plenty of people who do and to suggest that they only started following Arsenal in 1998 or have no idea of the pre-Wenger era is just insulting to a lot of people.

Saying that, I do believe everyone is entitled to their opinion

Right.

So what you're saying, is that there isn't a single manager available anywhere in Europe, who could do better than to qualify in 4th position, with a wage bill approaching £120 million, and a transfer budget of over £70 million. That is your serious suggestion is it?

And what kind of defence of AW is it that 'who would you replace him with?'

He's either good enough or not. But to claim that because you're not imaginative enough to come up with anyone better, that it's a case for him to remain is ridiculous, classic AKB logic (not calling you an AKB. But saying the 'logic' is).

The funny thing is, before Wenger arrived, not one of his apologists would have been able to name him as an alternative replacement. Yet he came in.

So there is bound to be any manager out there, that is smart enough to realise you do not play 4-5-1 at home to Sunderland/Blackburn/Wolves, that you do not wait until you've chucked league points before getting a settled team in summer, that you do not sell your best players without replacing them, that you do teach defending, that you study the opposition, and that you do not surrender a 4-0 lead, and that you do nto EVER, under any circumstances, lose 8-2 at Old Trafford.

If you genuinely think there isn't a manager out there capable of outdoing Wenger - when even under your very noses Harry fucking Redknapp is fighting for the league title and producing a team that plays excellent football, with a wage bill over £40 million lower....if you think there is not a single manaer in world football who can better SEVEN YEARS WITHOUT A SINGLE TROPHY; then you are totally out of your mind.

Oh and one last thing.

A replacement for Wenger is not the fans' job. It's the club's. So when the Wengerites say 'who would you replace him with' it is a stupid, moot argument. Since the job of replacing him isn't the fans. It's the club's job.

When Graham was sacked, none of you would have thought of Wenger. So there are tons of managers out there who can outdo the utter garbage we see right now. Look at what Jurgen Klopp has done at Dortmund with fuck all money? Look at the players he has turned out?

PLEASE.

Ok, fairly certain Wenger didn't replace George Graham. But you're right I wouldn't have thought of him regardless.

And yes it isn't up to the fans to replace Wenger, but if you feel it's your job to act as judge, jury and executioner, you also need to suggest alternatives. Solutions are the way forward, not just moaning about the problem. Of course, with your close affiliation to Tottenham, maybe you prefer Anarchy?

I don't need to think of anyone who can do a better job than Wenger, on the whole I think he is still the best man for the job - I, unlike you, have already suggested my way forward.

Complete agree with the change of tactics as already suggested in one of the Transfer topics, I really really want us to sign another striker - a good one. I am still not 100% who though

Also agree about the current state of the wage bill, but again I do believe this is the Chief Executive's job (or at least someone else). "This Denilson Kid Arsene, £60k a week was it? We were thinking £6???"

And the time without a trophy is largely irrelevant. I haven't been around as long as others, but I still had to suffer the days at school after losing to the likes of Luton. We have had other trophy barren periods before and we have no god given right to trophies every couple of years.

'Best man for the job'

£7 mil a year, a wage bill of almost £120 million, seven years without a trophy (how is that 'irrelevant'??! If you are paid world class wages for being the best, you win trophies. Nonsensical point). Incapable of tactically understanding the game, incapable of coaching a defence properly, no idea of how to change tactics in-game, no knowledge of the transfer market outside the French Ligues 1 and 2; no ability to be a hard-nosed negotiator for the top players, fallen behind Spuds, no wins in a North London derby in over two years now, massacred 8-2 at Old Trafford; sells the best players year in year out and replaces them with fresh garbage, spent over £50 million in the transfer market for the first time ever and managed to spend all of it on absolute toss.

On the verge of sending Arsenal - the fourth most valuable club in football - to the Europa League, overpaid mercenaries on massive contracts no other club would dare touch....

So he's not financially intelligent (he is a waster of Arsenal money. Think of what players we could get by ditching the toss), he wins no trophies (trophies aren't irrelevant dummy. Those thirteen league titles Arsenal have are what distinguishes them from Spuds/Accrington Stanley/Crawley Town).

He wins nothing.
He cannot even finish top 2 in the league
He is overpaid.
He wastes Arsenal money on rubbish.
He is tactically retarded.
He thinks there are no better viables in the market than what he has.
He has alienated all our best players.
There is no leadership.

And yet....

You think he is the best man for the job?

One cannot argue with the brainwashed. I just put pure logic before your eyes. Oh and I suppose someone like Gus Hiddink who is available btw, wouldn't be able to do as good a job as Wenger eh? Oh and Klopp has won more in two years than Wenger has in seven. With a wage bill less than a third of Wenger's. I suppose end of the season, Jupp Heynckes couldn't replace Wenger either eh? Hmmm? And why is Guardiola a pipe dream, since he has said he is probably leaving Barca end of the season? How about Massimo Allegri? Or what about Unai Emery?

All of these managers are better thinkers of the game and better managers. And bar Emery they have all won more than Wenger.

And yet..Wenger is 'the best man for the job', when over the past seven years even Harry Redknapp, Steve McLaren and Rafa Benitez have all won more thnan him!

Maybe you've been brainwashed too...

[frankbutcher]

Baba sums it up again.

Wenger has lost the plot. He needs a change. We need a change. Time to go, Wenger.

[richpye]

'Best man for the job'

£7 mil a year, a wage bill of almost £120 million, seven years without a trophy (how is that 'irrelevant'??! If you are paid world class wages for being the best, you win trophies. Nonsensical point). Incapable of tactically understanding the game, incapable of coaching a defence properly, no idea of how to change tactics in-game, no knowledge of the transfer market outside the French Ligues 1 and 2; no ability to be a hard-nosed negotiator for the top players, fallen behind Spuds, no wins in a North London derby in over two years now, massacred 8-2 at Old Trafford; sells the best players year in year out and replaces them with fresh garbage, spent over £50 million in the transfer market for the first time ever and managed to spend all of it on absolute toss.

On the verge of sending Arsenal - the fourth most valuable club in football - to the Europa League, overpaid mercenaries on massive contracts no other club would dare touch....

So he's not financially intelligent (he is a waster of Arsenal money. Think of what players we could get by ditching the toss), he wins no trophies (trophies aren't irrelevant dummy. Those thirteen league titles Arsenal have are what distinguishes them from Spuds/Accrington Stanley/Crawley Town).

He wins nothing.
He cannot even finish top 2 in the league
He is overpaid.
He wastes Arsenal money on rubbish.
He is tactically retarded.
He thinks there are no better viables in the market than what he has.
He has alienated all our best players.
There is no leadership.

And yet....

You think he is the best man for the job?

One cannot argue with the brainwashed. I just put pure logic before your eyes. Oh and I suppose someone like Gus Hiddink who is available btw, wouldn't be able to do as good a job as Wenger eh? Oh and Klopp has won more in two years than Wenger has in seven. With a wage bill less than a third of Wenger's. I suppose end of the season, Jupp Heynckes couldn't replace Wenger either eh? Hmmm? And why is Guardiola a pipe dream, since he has said he is probably leaving Barca end of the season? How about Massimo Allegri? Or what about Unai Emery?

All of these managers are better thinkers of the game and better managers. And bar Emery they have all won more than Wenger.

And yet..Wenger is 'the best man for the job', when over the past seven years even Harry Redknapp, Steve McLaren and Rafa Benitez have all won more thnan him!

Maybe you've been brainwashed too...

The reason why lack of trophies are irrelevant is because you seem to feel that as long as you throw money at wages that should be enough. There are simply too many other factors to bring into this equation. In this case United, City and Chelsea - 3 of the richest clubs in the history of the game.
In terms of tactics, Wenger brought some of the most modern and new tactics to the game when he came to England so to call him tactically inept is simply wrong. The problem here is that Wenger answers to no-one and has no-one strong enough within the coaching setup to challenge him. Wenger needs stronger personalities around him to challenge his ideas in a positive fashion. To be fair he did try to address the defensive problems this summer and has been quite unlucky with injuries (name one other club that has lost 4 full backs to long term injury all at the same time?). I remember you moaning about Kos last year when he was a Ligue 2 nobody - you seem to have passed over this now that he has become one our best defenders. (Defensive coaching ability anyone?)
A back 4 of Santos, Kos, Vermaelen and Sagna with Mertesacker on the bench is extremely strong.
There have been many signings of players outside of the French Leagues - so this is complete crap. You've just chosen to ignore these signings. I've also heard that most English managers are only experts on signing players from the English Leagues - there's a surprise.
For me, this is a scouting issue. We have one of the most expensive assembled scouting teams in the world and their return has simply not been good enough. This has also been done to circumvent agents in the game, something that clearly has not worked (Look at the amount of signings we have missed out on as a result of their involvement) - It would be an interesting study to work out what has cost more, our scouting policy or the amount of money say Chelsea have spent on agents.
Fallen behind the Spuds? - this season the only season in Wenger's period in charge. Let's see how effective Spurs are when they have a £400 million mortgage around their neck.
Yes the results like the 8-2 were horrible - I have a lot of Utd fans who are friends and these games become an embarrassment to talk about. I also remember Wenger giving us some fantastic results that we can talk about for the rest of our lives - you have to give him some counterbalance.
I assume you would prefer our best players to leave on frees and then having no money to replace them. Wenger has admitted that this summer was the first time he lost good players in their prime and it hurt him so he changed tact. You may think he wasted £50 million in the Transfer window, but I think Arteta and Mertesacker are quality players, I also believe that by next year Santos and Gervinho will be more effective players - I am willing to give people time though. And this is what's needed when you are shopping in the £5-£10 million pound market, rather than the £15-£45 million pound market.
On the verge of sending Arsenal to the Europa League??? - We're 5th for fuck sake and we're a single point behind 4th place. We have 20 yes 20 games before the end of the season. I agree with some of the contract issues, but still believe the Chief Exec has some of the blame here. Would Dein have paid £60k (reportedly) a week to Denilson?
His financial astuteness is the only reason we are anyway close to being in the CL places. We had Edelman saying that the Grove wouldn't hinder our financial position. It was Wenger's financial intelligence that stopped us from some form of apocalypse. Wenger's Arsenal career didn't begin in 2005, he has won trophies, lots of them. You can't just ignore the early stuff to make a point.

Arsenal have won a lot of trophies.
Arsenal have finished 2nd in the PL during Wenger's time in charge
Wenger's salary has been set by the club
Name a manager with a 100% success rate on signings? It's a gamble - especially when working to a budget unlike Chelsea or Man City
He certainly needs to embrace other tactics and get a stronger coaching team around him
He thinks there are no better viables in the market than what he has. - Erm how do you know this, is his house bugged?
He has alienated all our best players. - Erm, are all these best players the ones who keep pledging loyalty and respect to him even after they have left the club?
There is certainly leadership - Wenger is strong but stubborn (French may be a better word here) leader. He is certainly more proficient at this then PHW or Kroenke. Also if being a strong leader is only based on trophy success, then we have about 3 strong leaders in the whole of English football - this is horseshit.
I am under no doubt that changes are necessary, but this is the wrong change at the wrong time

[TeeCee]

What new tactics did Wenger bring to this country?

Wenger sets player contracts, Gazidis said Wenger has final say on this

How much time do you want to give Wenger?

Wenger addressed the defensive problems by signing 'cheap' players rather than top quality....again

He says there are not many quality players available and he will only sign 'super quality', then signs Park for 2m. The man is a joke!

We can't live on results from 10 years or more ago, are we Liverpool?

Wenger doesn't want strong personalities around him, he is a dictator.

Wenger is holding our club back BIG time, purely because of his inadequacies!!!

[Eboue-Why?]

Say what you like about this Forum but now and again a thread comes up that generates really good arguments from both sides of the 'divide'. Some people think Baba is a whingeing old bastard but when you read through his posts, they are full of so much passion and ok you could say that his hatred for Wenger is OTT given what the man did for AFC 1998-2005 but it's because he loves the club so much, hates the fact that the Spuds have overtaken us now etc that brings out so much feeling. Equally richpye produces a sound counter argument for the pro-Wenger camp.

Me? Unfortunately I still listen to Wenger during his post match interviews and wish I loved him like I did a few years ago, His failing has and always will be his stubborness and failure to want to listen to others. This is a weakness not a strength. When Arshavin and Chamakh were brought on to win the game yesterday, one player with no interest in my club and another who has the confidence of an agrophobiac, well.....

[Sutch]

'Best man for the job'

£7 mil a year, a wage bill of almost £120 million, seven years without a trophy (how is that 'irrelevant'??! If you are paid world class wages for being the best, you win trophies. Nonsensical point). Incapable of tactically understanding the game, incapable of coaching a defence properly, no idea of how to change tactics in-game, no knowledge of the transfer market outside the French Ligues 1 and 2; no ability to be a hard-nosed negotiator for the top players, fallen behind Spuds, no wins in a North London derby in over two years now, massacred 8-2 at Old Trafford; sells the best players year in year out and replaces them with fresh garbage, spent over £50 million in the transfer market for the first time ever and managed to spend all of it on absolute toss.

On the verge of sending Arsenal - the fourth most valuable club in football - to the Europa League, overpaid mercenaries on massive contracts no other club would dare touch....

So he's not financially intelligent (he is a waster of Arsenal money. Think of what players we could get by ditching the toss), he wins no trophies (trophies aren't irrelevant dummy. Those thirteen league titles Arsenal have are what distinguishes them from Spuds/Accrington Stanley/Crawley Town).

He wins nothing.
He cannot even finish top 2 in the league
He is overpaid.
He wastes Arsenal money on rubbish.
He is tactically retarded.
He thinks there are no better viables in the market than what he has.
He has alienated all our best players.
There is no leadership.

And yet....

You think he is the best man for the job?

One cannot argue with the brainwashed. I just put pure logic before your eyes. Oh and I suppose someone like Gus Hiddink who is available btw, wouldn't be able to do as good a job as Wenger eh? Oh and Klopp has won more in two years than Wenger has in seven. With a wage bill less than a third of Wenger's. I suppose end of the season, Jupp Heynckes couldn't replace Wenger either eh? Hmmm? And why is Guardiola a pipe dream, since he has said he is probably leaving Barca end of the season? How about Massimo Allegri? Or what about Unai Emery?

All of these managers are better thinkers of the game and better managers. And bar Emery they have all won more than Wenger.

And yet..Wenger is 'the best man for the job', when over the past seven years even Harry Redknapp, Steve McLaren and Rafa Benitez have all won more thnan him!

Maybe you've been brainwashed too...

The reason why lack of trophies are irrelevant is because you seem to feel that as long as you throw money at wages that should be enough. There are simply too many other factors to bring into this equation. In this case United, City and Chelsea - 3 of the richest clubs in the history of the game.
In terms of tactics, Wenger brought some of the most modern and new tactics to the game when he came to England so to call him tactically inept is simply wrong. The problem here is that Wenger answers to no-one and has no-one strong enough within the coaching setup to challenge him. Wenger needs stronger personalities around him to challenge his ideas in a positive fashion. To be fair he did try to address the defensive problems this summer and has been quite unlucky with injuries (name one other club that has lost 4 full backs to long term injury all at the same time?). I remember you moaning about Kos last year when he was a Ligue 2 nobody - you seem to have passed over this now that he has become one our best defenders. (Defensive coaching ability anyone?)
A back 4 of Santos, Kos, Vermaelen and Sagna with Mertesacker on the bench is extremely strong.
There have been many signings of players outside of the French Leagues - so this is complete crap. You've just chosen to ignore these signings. I've also heard that most English managers are only experts on signing players from the English Leagues - there's a surprise.
For me, this is a scouting issue. We have one of the most expensive assembled scouting teams in the world and their return has simply not been good enough. This has also been done to circumvent agents in the game, something that clearly has not worked (Look at the amount of signings we have missed out on as a result of their involvement) - It would be an interesting study to work out what has cost more, our scouting policy or the amount of money say Chelsea have spent on agents.
Fallen behind the Spuds? - this season the only season in Wenger's period in charge. Let's see how effective Spurs are when they have a £400 million mortgage around their neck.
Yes the results like the 8-2 were horrible - I have a lot of Utd fans who are friends and these games become an embarrassment to talk about. I also remember Wenger giving us some fantastic results that we can talk about for the rest of our lives - you have to give him some counterbalance.
I assume you would prefer our best players to leave on frees and then having no money to replace them. Wenger has admitted that this summer was the first time he lost good players in their prime and it hurt him so he changed tact. You may think he wasted £50 million in the Transfer window, but I think Arteta and Mertesacker are quality players, I also believe that by next year Santos and Gervinho will be more effective players - I am willing to give people time though. And this is what's needed when you are shopping in the £5-£10 million pound market, rather than the £15-£45 million pound market.
On the verge of sending Arsenal to the Europa League??? - We're 5th for fuck sake and we're a single point behind 4th place. We have 20 yes 20 games before the end of the season. I agree with some of the contract issues, but still believe the Chief Exec has some of the blame here. Would Dein have paid £60k (reportedly) a week to Denilson?
His financial astuteness is the only reason we are anyway close to being in the CL places. We had Edelman saying that the Grove wouldn't hinder our financial position. It was Wenger's financial intelligence that stopped us from some form of apocalypse. Wenger's Arsenal career didn't begin in 2005, he has won trophies, lots of them. You can't just ignore the early stuff to make a point.

Arsenal have won a lot of trophies.
Arsenal have finished 2nd in the PL during Wenger's time in charge
Wenger's salary has been set by the club
Name a manager with a 100% success rate on signings? It's a gamble - especially when working to a budget unlike Chelsea or Man City
He certainly needs to embrace other tactics and get a stronger coaching team around him
He thinks there are no better viables in the market than what he has. - Erm how do you know this, is his house bugged?
He has alienated all our best players. - Erm, are all these best players the ones who keep pledging loyalty and respect to him even after they have left the club?
There is certainly leadership - Wenger is strong but stubborn (French may be a better word here) leader. He is certainly more proficient at this then PHW or Kroenke. Also if being a strong leader is only based on trophy success, then we have about 3 strong leaders in the whole of English football - this is horseshit.
I am under no doubt that changes are necessary, but this is the wrong change at the wrong time

Another AKB looking for excuses to hide from Wenger's fuck ups.

He signs players from outside of France? Then why have the majority of his signings been French or French-born? Nearly every player we're linked with or actually sign these days they're French or have some connection to France. Koscielny, Squillaci, Diaby, Gervinho, Chamakh, Moussa Sow, Martin Marvin or whatever his name is. All French or play in France (Chamakh is French with a Morrocan passport).

[SteveO 35]

What I find particularly hilarious is how Robsy (and similar posters) always turn to money wasted by Chelsea on Torres, and by the Mickeys on Carroll as examples of why we should never go and out and invest big money.

What about the £20-£25m United invested in Rooney? What about Silva for Man City?

And go further down the scale and look at the £7m odd on Chicarito or Joe Hart costing fuck all from Shrewsbury, or Sturridge for sub £10m from City ?

See - what does that achieve. You pick one or two players that suit your argument, and I pick some that suit mine.

The simple fact is that with the exception of Mikel Arteta the Summer window signings are either not good enough or haven't had a chance to prove that they are.

Santos might be getting rave reviews but in reality is no better than Clichy. When all our defenders are fit then for me Mertesacker is first reserve behind TV5 and Koscielny. Gervinho looks little better than the wide players we have had, or sold, in the past few years. As for "super quality" Park - has there been a more pointless singing since Bischoff? The Ox looks good but Wenger won't play him. Joel Campbell - well one day we might know more.

Of course Wenger has signed some good players in the past but in recent years the quality of the squad has declined. Can you honestly say that this side is now better than we had in 2008 ? And aren't we supposed to be better off financially 3 years later on? So what's the excuse now?