A genuine question for Wenger supporters

SteveO 35 · Post by **SteveO 35** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:01 pm

Babatunde wrote:I cannot wait to read the response of Kiwomya or Highbury JD on this one.
It will probably be:

'Failure would represent an inability to qualify for European competition. As long as Arsene qualifies us for Europe bla bla etc...he is the only man who can take us back to CL football. Milan, Inter and Bayern have all had a season out of the CL and Arsene has done miracles on a limited budget, most clubs would love to have him. Judge him at the end of the Europa League, it's the players who have to look at themselves bla bla etc...it ain't Arsene's fault he is only the manager, only the one who decides their contracts *suck suck suck* etc...'

Best abbreviated as below SteveO:

Well they have a voice and I would love to hear it. Perhaps they would care to answer whether its just a one year absence from the CL that's acceptable or whether consistent qualification for Channel 5 Cup is acceptable

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSWN6Qj98Iw

frankbutcher · Post by **frankbutcher** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:03 pm

Wenger needs to show some intent by building a genuinely competitive squad. That is THE mimimum requirement. If that squad comes up short in a season because of injuries, bad luck or whatever, then fine. But as it stands this squad cannot win the League or the Champions League before it starts each season. FACT. That for me is the most unacceptable thing about all this. Why go into every season handicapped before you've started?????????????

Just look at our squad. It is woeful beyond 5-6 good players.

WENGER, GET SOME DECENT FUCKING PLAYERS IN, AND SHIP THE SHITE OUT.

1989 · Post by **1989** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:05 pm

SteveO 35 wrote:
1989 wrote:
Red Member wrote:failure is not getting in the top 4

wenger has not failed to do this for 15 years, it is that simple
Failure is not finishing top.

Why settle for 4th? We charge the highest ticket prices and generate the highest amount of revenue out of all English clubs.

Wenger has failed miserably in the last 7 years.
I think most of us would cut him a bit more slack than simply not winning the league. The issue for me is allowing the standard to have consistently dropped - it used to be top 2 and a cup. Now its been top 4 for a while and fuck the cups.

How long before a European place is the standard?

My question really is aimed at those that are still in support of Wenger. I would love to know what would be a failure to these people. Are they happy because we're not 15th anymore ?

I wouldn't expect us to finish top every year as that's simply unrealistic, but certainly we should be doing far better than we are. We should be challenging strongly for the title and doing it every season. If we challenge effectively enough every year eventually we are going to win the title once or twice along the way.

But we are not doing that.

We are scraping for 4th, and that's criminal for a club like Arsenal. It's an absolute joke and Wenger should be ashamed of himself.

tel · Post by **tel** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:07 pm

A more relevant question is why is there still so much support for Wenger? Outside of this forum I read no real vitriol aimed at him and the fans still sing his name every other week so how do we change this? Ive slaggef him off in the bowl before and got into arguments with his supporters and I've seen others do the same. What needs to happen to change The mindset? Personally I'd like to see another demo but this time it's about Wenger as much as the board. I think that might encourage others who feel the same to become more vocal? Wenger will be here for another 2.5 years potentially, we'll be the richest mid table club in the fucking world if he's allowed to remain unchallenged.

richpye · Post by **richpye** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:10 pm

I would expect his position to be seriously reviewed if we don't qualify for the Champions League. However, I still stick to be previous posts that say that simply a change in manager would not be enough to change our fortunes. Wenger is not solely to blame

armchair · Post by **armchair** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:12 pm

Perhaps the question should be "What would represent success to you?"

frankbutcher · Post by **frankbutcher** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:12 pm

richpye wrote:I would expect his position to be seriously reviewed if we don't qualify for the Champions League. However, I still stick to be previous posts that say that simply a change in manager would not be enough to change our fortunes. Wenger is not solely to blame

Wenger is solely to blame. He has pissed multi-millions up the wall on utter ***** players on massive wages.

1989 · Post by **1989** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:12 pm

richpye wrote:a change in manager would not be enough to change our fortunes.

It would go a bloody long way to solving most of our problems.

SteveO 35 · Post by **SteveO 35** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:12 pm

richpye wrote:I would expect his position to be seriously reviewed if we don't qualify for the Champions League. However, I still stick to be previous posts that say that simply a change in manager would not be enough to change our fortunes. Wenger is not solely to blame

And I certainly agree with that. Gazidis and the ownership structure, both pre and post the Kroenke takeover are killing the club. We are a property company first, football club second

SteveO 35 · Post by **SteveO 35** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:14 pm

armchair supporter wrote:Perhaps the question should be "What would represent success to you?"

Well not really - the fact that they defend him so passionately now means that they already think he is a success, surely?

I'd love to know how low we'd need to finish and how consistently before they'd want a change?

Post by **brazilianGOONER** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:16 pm

this thread is so wrong.

there aren't wenger supporters and wenger haters - there are arsenal supporters. some got fed up with wenger circa 2007 after he got rid of the aging invincibles and created the team of the young 'invisibles'. the most pessimistic in this forum are those (and fucking hell, were they right).

some got fed up when we had cesc, flamini, hleb, etc, and lost the league because he didn't strengthen the team properly. that is most in here i believe.

i love the man. he brought me more happiness then few other people in this world, and hell was he a great manager in the past. we all sang he had a magic hat! for that i forgave him for his mistakes and kept on believing in him, many here remember that.

however, by the start of last year, i got fed up. i gave him the chance to adjust his team, correct his mistakes, sign the necessary players, etc. he kept almunia in goal for over three years and insisted that diaby is an actual footballer.

please stop putting people into categories, i absolutely despise that. a few of what you call AKBs will get fed up this season, some other like red member may take a few years to do that, simply because their love for the man is bigger than their ambition as arsenal supporter.

truth is, you don't know when you'll get fed up. sometimes it takes a defeat to wigan like the one last season, sometimes it takes not signing the guy you wanted - but truth is, no one has written in their brain "if we don't this or that, i'll stop liking him". i don't know what clicked in me, probably the 4-4 at newcastle, i don't really know.

believing people will turn from akbs into wenger haters based on objectives is foolish. it just clicks and you get fed up.

Bring Back Pires · Post by **Bring Back Pires** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:18 pm

No matter how low we finish, and irrelevant of how long it continues for, the pro-Wenger supporters will always hark back to the trophies in the early 2000s and use that as justification for him continuing on.

SteveO 35 · Post by **SteveO 35** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:21 pm

brazilianGOONER wrote:this thread is so wrong.

.

Yep asking for an opinion on a football club's forum, about what would represent failure in the eyes of its supporters about its current manager.

How wrong can you get?

Would you prefer another 30 page special on how we can get everyone singing more songs instead ?

Babatunde · Post by **Babatunde** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:24 pm

frankbutcher wrote:Wenger needs to show some intent by building a genuinely competitive squad. That is THE mimimum requirement. If that squad comes up short in a season because of injuries, bad luck or whatever, then fine. But as it stands this squad cannot win the League or the Champions League before it starts each season. FACT. That for me is the most unacceptable thing about all this. Why go into every season handicapped before you've started?????????????

Just look at our squad. It is woeful beyond 5-6 good players.

WENGER, GET SOME DECENT FUCKING PLAYERS IN, AND SHIP THE SHITE OUT.

WHY would you want AW though to be the man to manage these players? I wouldn't. Look at what a rubbish job he did with Reyes and Arshavin. If he brings in players with expectations, he is shocking at coaching them and plays them out of position. No knowledge of tactics, shit motivational skills, zero will to win, no ambition. Even IF he brought in big players, Diaby and Thong would still get the go-ahead.

I just want him GONE.

And as Tel mentioned, those that support this manager still?

Well let me tell you, my Spud mates all LOVE Arsene Wenger too these days and want him to stay. Says everything

frankbutcher · Post by **frankbutcher** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:27 pm

Babatunde wrote:
frankbutcher wrote:Wenger needs to show some intent by building a genuinely competitive squad. That is THE mimimum requirement. If that squad comes up short in a season because of injuries, bad luck or whatever, then fine. But as it stands this squad cannot win the League or the Champions League before it starts each season. FACT. That for me is the most unacceptable thing about all this. Why go into every season handicapped before you've started?????????????

Just look at our squad. It is woeful beyond 5-6 good players.

WENGER, GET SOME DECENT FUCKING PLAYERS IN, AND SHIP THE SHITE OUT.
WHY would you want AW though to be the man to manage these players? I wouldn't. Look at what a rubbish job he did with Reyes and Arshavin. If he brings in players with expectations, he is shocking at coaching them and plays them out of position. No knowledge of tactics, shit motivational skills, zero will to win, no ambition. Even IF he brought in big players, Diaby and Thong would still get the go-ahead.

I just want him GONE.

And as Tel mentioned, those that support this manager still?

Well let me tell you, my Spud mates all LOVE Arsene Wenger too these days and want him to stay. Says everything

Babs,

I'm a pragmatist. He simply isn't going to be sacked. Simple as that. So I want him to swallow his pride and sign some quality (which he won't). This really is the most frustrating thing in my whole life. Wenger is just an utter pratt for not doing the simple things. All the difficult things he does pretty well.