A genuine question for Wenger supporters

[potter]

The main problem with going after the board is that apart from their salaries they no longer have any financial interest in the club since they all sold out but kept their jobs. Only Kroenke can change things in the way they are now set up. Just how you pressure him is another matter but while his long term plan is happening he is unlikely to change much. We will have to put up with Wenger until he decides to call it a day I reckon which probably will be at the end of this contract .

[armchair]

Worthing - dont you think he should go for this never mind anything else?

Wengers destroying the club, turning the fans against eachother, creating a poisonous atmosphere. He has become the focal point instead of the football.

Forget about all his other failings. For this reason alone his position is untenable and he should go with a little dignity. In any other walk of life hed be gone.

I do agree mate, but I don't think it's as simple as getting Wenger out and getting back up the table.

I think the whole club is rotten, from Wenger right up to PHW who is just an old fool, and Kroenke who has offered absolutely no financial investment, put ticket prices up and fucked off back to the states.

All valid points but just because theres more than one villain doesnt mean you get rid of them all at once. I feel Wengers more culpable than anyone. So I dont see the argument. Even AKB's admit that Wenger is partly to blame. Isn't that reason enough?

[brazilianGOONER]

this thread is so wrong.

.

Yep asking for an opinion on a football club's forum, about what would represent failure in the eyes of its supporters about its current manager.

How wrong can you get?

Would you prefer another 30 page special on how we can get everyone singing more songs instead ?

steveo, i think you misunderstood me mate. i didn't mean creating the thread is wrong, i meant what's in some of the replies.

what i don't like is the idea of judging the 'trust' in the manager in such a binary way - it's 'yes' or 'no'. i think it's not like that, like "i love you" if we finish 4th and "go fuck yourself" if we finish 5th. many people reply like that.

ah fuck it, i can't really explain myself properly and i have some work to do, so just nevermind anyway, it wasn't a go at you, just at the way people judge a manager's contribution.

[Red Member]

Interesting thread. Personally, I'm wavering.

I'm not naive enough to think this is ALL Wenger's fault and I worry that changing the manager will just be a quick fix and won't actually solve anything.

My reasoning (without trying to sound like USM!) is that the board must take ultimate responsibility because they are the ones with the power to change the manager.

Some people say Wenger has cash, some people say he doesn't... Wenger doesn't actually sign the players, he gives Gazidis a list of targets and says go get them. So whose fault is it we didn't sign say Juan Mata in the summer? If Wenger said get him, then it's Gazidis who does the negotiations on price/contracts.For me, there needs to be sustained pressure put on the board - Gazidis, Kroenke, Hill-Wood - from the fans to say that this is UNACCEPTABLE. The board have set extortionate prices for tickets, are sitting on what we believe to be a large transfer kitty, and yet it's just sitting there gathering dust.

If the fans put the board under pressure, they will in turn put Wenger under pressure to either spend, or pack his bags.

But this will only happen if the fans hit them in the pocket. All the while the club is getting by, standard results, finishing in the top four, nothing will change, because they are content and to them, Wenger is doing a good job.

For us fans, this is unacceptable, but it's no good going after Wenger because we all know how stubborn he is and whilst the board see the money coming in, they quite clearly don't give a shit.

If on the other hand we did a sustained protest against the board, hitting them in their pockets, something will HAVE to change, be it Wenger being forced to spend or Wenger to leave the club, or else the value of Kroenke's investment will drop significantly.

I hope that's not too USM for everyone.

Wenger is as much to blame as anyone else, if not more so, but shouting for Wenger's head won't work as long as the board and the club's funds are unaffected. They'll just bring in another lackey manager.

Start affecting the board and hitting their finances, and all of a sudden you are taking chunks out of their business and their money, then it becomes an issue to them and something will change.

This is the key issue for me.
Something went seriously wrong last summer.
No one really knows what happened and whose fault it is but the signing of Mata by Chelsea could ultimately cost us our place in the top 4.

I have been blaming the board most of this season and getting behind the manager. And certainly if transfer funds are not made available this year then they should be held responsible for what is going on.

if we dont finish in the top 4 anyone who renews their season ticket though is a complete moron. That is not the same as saying don't go to games. By all means continue to go to games, just don't pay the american months in advance. THAT IS WHAT HE WANTS. IF HE DOESN'T GET THAT HE MIGHT ACTUALLY NOTICE WHAT IS GOING ON

At the moment if I was Kroenke back in the US I would be thinking well all the soccer lot have all paid up until May - no problems there, lets watch some baseball.

[armchair]

So whose fault is it we didn't sign say Juan Mata in the summer? If Wenger said get him, then it's Gazidis who does the negotiations on price/contracts.


For us fans, this is unacceptable, but it's no good going after Wenger because we all know how stubborn he is and whilst the board see the money coming in, they quite clearly don't give a shit.

If on the other hand we did a sustained protest against the board, hitting them in their pockets, something will HAVE to change, be it Wenger being forced to spend or Wenger to leave the club, or else the value of Kroenke's investment will drop significantly.

I hope that's not too USM for everyone.

Wenger is as much to blame as anyone else, if not more so, but shouting for Wenger's head won't work as long as the board and the club's funds are unaffected. They'll just bring in another lackey manager.

Start affecting the board and hitting their finances, and all of a sudden you are taking chunks out of their business and their money, then it becomes an issue to them and something will change.

Mate you and I are not far away.

Wanting to replace the two (Board or Wenger) is not mutually exclusive. But Wenger is by far the biggest problem at the club IMO for all the reasons already written on here over and over again, the easiest to remove right now and should be the main focus of discontent.
Yes staying away and hitting them in the pockets can also work. The anti-wenger brigade wont argue with you on that.
The argument seems to be when Wenger goes, not if. I say ASAP. Truth is he wont stay longer than his current contract anyway.


Dont know why Mata didn't sign but one thing I do know -
Gazidis didn't sign Almunia, make him first choice, tell everyone he was world calss, nor make him captain.
Gazidis didn't sign Flappy nor make him first choice
Gazidis didn't sign Bendtner
Or Manone, or DeNilson, Diaby, Vela etc,
Gazidis didn't oversee the dismantling of an unbeaten side on the verge of domination and lead them to where we are now - a club in decline.
Gazidis doesn't do tactics, doesn't make inexplicable subs, doesnt teach defending etc, etc.........................

The seeds of our malaise were sown a long time before Gazedis.

And so we go on.............

[HashKads]

Zenga Zenga

Maybe Gaddafi was saying Wenger Wenger after all

[SpanishJoe]

Maybe it's because we're both basking in sunshine at the moment, but I again agree with BG.

There is no problem asking for opinions, but in asking for them from "AW supporters" you are implying that we are all either 'supporters of', or 'not supporters of' AW, when with many (most?) of us neither label is an accurate description.

I'm not in the 'every good thing that has happened at the club is despite AW or because he's lucky and every bad thing is his fault' club but I have many criticisms of him and think he should go sooner rather than later.

My biggest criticism is that, unlike beetroot nose, he is too slow to recognise his mistakes and too stubborn to correct them.

[brazilianGOONER]

Maybe it's because we're both basking in sunshine at the moment, but I again agree with BG.

no mate, it's actually because we are both geniuses

[Babatunde]

Wenger and Gazidis thought that saving £5 mil on the Mata fee would be good business.
Mata will end up qualifying Chelski for the CL through his brilliance, and failing to sign him could cost Arsenal £40 mil


Arsene Knows

[augie]

As you all know I am, and have been for a long time now, a strong wenger and board opponent but, and correct me if I am wrong here steve o, this thread wasnt started so that we can all come out with our complaints/defence of these people but merely to ask those who defend wenger to say what they would class as failure so lets not lose sight of that eh.

Last night whilst stewing over yet another meek surrender I started to wonder if a lot of the anger and frustration around the club at the mo is actually the fault of us fans. I have never for second gone along with the belief that in a few years time we will be set up to rule the football world cos our finances will make it so and I totally agree that we were sold a fake bill of goods by our board who told us that we were moving stadiums "to compete with the elite european clubs" but are our expectations realistic though ?

Baring a spell in the 1930's we are a club that have never dominated english football in the way that victims fc or manure have done over recent decades so should we expect to be one of the top clubs now ? If we are to believe that everything goes in cycles then is our cycle over ? Are we now what notts forest, villa and dirty leeds used to be ie a club that used to be challenging for all the big trophies but who then slipped back into the pack who were always on the edges of the top clubs but never quite there ?

I know that under a different manager we could realistically expect to see a huge tactical improvement, a bit more passion from the players and some other improvements but will our ambitions/aspirations be realistic even then ? Are we a club that even knows how to become a dominant force ? Despite all the glories acheived under GG and wenger we did not manage to win back to back titles under either which suggests a mentality issue and a preference to be the underdog maybe ?

Wenger should have been sacked long before now and I believe 100% that we will only improve when he is removed but I am no longer sure where that improvement will take us. Maybe that line of thought brings us back to the ambitions or lack thereof of our board/owner but I cant help wondering if we have missed our chance to be THE dominant force as a result of the leadership of this club in recent seasons. The question remains, if water always finds its own level then what is our level ?

[I Hate Hleb]

Drowning?

[g88ner]

Wenger. He'll go down as an overhyped piece of shit.
Which is what he is.

Overhyped piece of shit? that's your conclusion after 15 years of his management?

You may be able to ignore his fine achievements, but I'll always fondly remember the '98 double, the 2002 double, the 2004 invincibles, Henry, Vieira, Pires, and a way of playing that was both effective and beautiful to watch... and all at a fraction of the cost of some of our rivals.

That cannot be put down as overhyped shit, I'm afraid. He gave us - arguably - the greatest period in our history since the 30s; something that we may never be lucky enough to witness again in our lifetimes.

Yeah, he's gone off the boil and it probably is time he walked away, but to call his tenure at the club an "overhyped piece of shit" is disrespectful and wildly inaccurate. Do you not remember 98-2004? - because you've just dismissed it out of hand there, and that's shameful and can only be a result of being blinded by hate.

[kiwomya]

Wenger. He'll go down as an overhyped piece of shit.
Which is what he is.

Overhyped piece of shit? that's your conclusion after 15 years of his management?

You may be able to ignore his fine achievements, but I'll always fondly remember the '98 double, the 2002 double, the 2004 invincibles, Henry, Vieira, Pires, and a way of playing that was both effective and beautiful to watch... and all at a fraction of the cost of some of our rivals.

That cannot be put down as overhyped shit, I'm afraid. He gave us - arguably - the greatest period in our history since the 30s; something that we may never be lucky enough to witness again in our lifetimes.

Yeah, he's gone off the boil and it probably is time he walked away, but to call his tenure at the club an "overhyped piece of shit" is disrespectful and wildly inaccurate. Do you not remember 98-2004? - because you've just dismissed it out of hand there, and that's shameful and can only be a result of being blinded by hate.

Bang on mate. Not sure why you entertained his comment, though. The geezer can't have a discussion or make a criticism without name calling or being disrespectful.

[brazilianGOONER]

Wenger. He'll go down as an overhyped piece of shit.
Which is what he is.

Overhyped piece of shit? that's your conclusion after 15 years of his management?

You may be able to ignore his fine achievements, but I'll always fondly remember the '98 double, the 2002 double, the 2004 invincibles, Henry, Vieira, Pires, and a way of playing that was both effective and beautiful to watch... and all at a fraction of the cost of some of our rivals.

That cannot be put down as overhyped shit, I'm afraid. He gave us - arguably - the greatest period in our history since the 30s; something that we may never be lucky enough to witness again in our lifetimes.

Yeah, he's gone off the boil and it probably is time he walked away, but to call his tenure at the club an "overhyped piece of shit" is disrespectful and wildly inaccurate. Do you not remember 98-2004? - because you've just dismissed it out of hand there, and that's shameful and can only be a result of being blinded by hate.

you should post more often mate.

top post there.

[flash gunner]

Wenger. He'll go down as an overhyped piece of shit.
Which is what he is.

Overhyped piece of shit? that's your conclusion after 15 years of his management?

You may be able to ignore his fine achievements, but I'll always fondly remember the '98 double, the 2002 double, the 2004 invincibles, Henry, Vieira, Pires, and a way of playing that was both effective and beautiful to watch... and all at a fraction of the cost of some of our rivals.

That cannot be put down as overhyped shit, I'm afraid. He gave us - arguably - the greatest period in our history since the 30s; something that we may never be lucky enough to witness again in our lifetimes.

Yeah, he's gone off the boil and it probably is time he walked away, but to call his tenure at the club an "overhyped piece of shit" is disrespectful and wildly inaccurate. Do you not remember 98-2004? - because you've just dismissed it out of hand there, and that's shameful and can only be a result of being blinded by hate.

you should post more often mate.

top post there.

Agreed - well said g88ner