Why are Arsenal so tight?

[T.S]

tony saunders, unfortunately your theory is not upheld by the fact diaby and roshitsky were given new contracts fairly recently, ie after they had shown they were sh*t and always injured, indeed roshitsky got one when still out injured.

The Rosicky one doesn't fit my theory, true enough. I think the Diaby one does though. He signed a new contract in 2010 at the age of 23. Now, it's widely known that Wenger (and I think a lot of French football) had real high hopes for Diaby so I think there was an element of securing his transfer fee there. Again however, it backfired badly.

As regards the Rosicky one - maybe it was partly to do with this equality within the squad trip Wenger was on. From Arseblog this morning (as regards Theo's contract):

Now, I’ve long suggested that Arsenal’s wage bill has caused us problems. Not because we don’t pay enough but because we pay some players too much. Arsene Wenger wanted relative harmony in the squad, which I understand to an extent, but that’s what made it so tough to move on players like Denilson, Bendtner, Almunia etc. Their wages, harmonised at Arsenal, were too high for other clubs to match. Hence loan deals, or no deals in some cases.

Or perhaps Rosicky's new contract was a way of making sure the club received some kind of transfer fee for him given that he was at the time just coming back from injury, as opposed to letting him leave on a free at the end of his previous contract (although it must be said, I don't know when that contract was due to expire).

Regardless of why these huge contracts were handed out, it's plain to see that the whole situation has been mismanaged badly and has left us badly hamstrung when it comes to securing the futures of our best players and also bringing in other players. USMartin would tell you it's all the board's fault, whereas Babatunde (for example) would have you believe it's all down to Wenger. I worry that it's actually a combination of the two and, as such, merely removing one will not solve the overall problem. Look at the way the board brought in Kroenke - they brought in someone who will toe the party line, and I see no reason to believe that the board will ever sack Wenger - regardless of where we finish in the league - as they will have a hard time finding a manager who will so cooperate so willingly in operations such as this contract situation we're discussing here.

[Eboue-Why?]

"Moving to the Em****es will make us able to compete with Europes biggest clubs"

This is THE statement that AFC will always regret making and is the main reason why my love for the club has unfortunately diminished since 2006. Rightly or wrongly I feel that I have been spun a pack of lies and bullshit and for the last 5 years and something tells me that it's unlikely to stop in the near future

[lowerwest]

ok we cant i know that- but i am remembering a time when we actually competed in the transfer market and formed a fantastic squad. 97 to about 2005. remembering it can actually make me very sad. remember where u were when u heard we had nicked sol campbell..

[worthing_gooner]

ok we cant i know that- but i am remembering a time when we actually competed in the transfer market and formed a fantastic squad. 97 to about 2005. remembering it can actually make me very sad. remember where u were when u heard we had nicked sol campbell..

Yeah but unfortunately we had that appeal then that would make Sol want to join us from the scum.

These days we wouldn't stand a chance. If anything, it would be the other way around unfortunately.

Thing is we've been spending money but buying dross. I honestly do believe that David Dein was THE big factor in making us successful back then. His departure coincided with our rapid decline. I would welcome him back to the club with open arms.

[arsenal1985]

Why do you tell " Why are Arsenal so tight? " I think it is not so tight,it is tactic. With player Arsenal have now,i think style of Arsenal have a litle change than many year ago. But it is beauty and more nice goals be scored.

[Kvltman]

.

Regardless of why these huge contracts were handed out, it's plain to see that the whole situation has been mismanaged badly and has left us badly hamstrung when it comes to securing the futures of our best players and also bringing in other players. USMartin would tell you it's all the board's fault, whereas Babatunde (for example) would have you believe it's all down to Wenger. I worry that it's actually a combination of the two and, as such, merely removing one will not solve the overall problem. Look at the way the board brought in Kroenke - they brought in someone who will toe the party line, and I see no reason to believe that the board will ever sack Wenger - regardless of where we finish in the league - as they will have a hard time finding a manager who will so cooperate so willingly in operations such as this contract situation we're discussing here.

This I agree with totally. We seem to be stuck in this limbo with no sign of escaping.

[richpye]

One of the key parts of the move to the Emirates, was that we would make loads out of the Highbury redevelopment. I am fairly certain we didn't make as much due to the property market dying.

The harmonised squad by having equality in wages has blatently not worked though. Firstly how much disharmony does there appear to be at the clubs that are paying the big wages? None really because they are winning trophies.
Also if a player on say 40k per week did start moaning about salaries, you could absolutely savage them in the press for being an ungrateful fucker. It will take us years to get out of this mess, but we do need to start paying the wages to keep and sign more quality players

[begeegs]

I reckon that idealism ultimately was one major problem with Wenger. It is all very nice to want this utopian footballing experience with the youth team churning out a conveyor belt like profit for AFC, but it doesn't work like that in the real world. It wasn't ever going to work, in fact.

With the 25 man Premiership rule, it will be even harder to sell and buy players in the Winter. If you are going to go for talent in relatively proven leagues, they have to replace that player and that chain goes on to the next team, etc. So you have to pay a massive premium for that to occur, not mention that you have to delist a player as well which probably makes his value plummet (well - some players - not Shittachi, for example). It makes the most sense to do it early in the summer, but Wenger/the Board haven't figured that out yet.

With Wenger on such a fat contract, he will get another year after this to attempt to correct it, unfortunately. The Board, well - that is another story.....

[Wengerball]

I reckon that idealism ultimately was one major problem with Wenger. It is all very nice to want this utopian footballing experience with the youth team churning out a conveyor belt like profit for AFC, but it doesn't work like that in the real world. It wasn't ever going to work, in fact.

With the 25 man Premiership rule, it will be even harder to sell and buy players in the Winter. If you are going to go for talent in relatively proven leagues, they have to replace that player and that chain goes on to the next team, etc. So you have to pay a massive premium for that to occur, not mention that you have to delist a player as well which probably makes his value plummet (well - some players - not Shittachi, for example). It makes the most sense to do it early in the summer, but Wenger/the Board haven't figured that out yet.

With Wenger on such a fat contract, he will get another year after this to attempt to correct it, unfortunately. The Board, well - that is another story.....

I can see it now- Our Dear Leader selling off RVP in the Summer to try and fill the chasm left by lack of CL money.

He will talk about the "sustainable" model and point to the excellent mental strength and super quality of new Arsenal striker Saloman Kalou

an small section of pravda.com on that day

on replacing RVP....

"We have a lot of quality in this area of the pitch. We have Park and Chamakh, Saloman will be an excellent addition once he gets through his adaption period and Theo can play there too. There is no need to spend when we have such excellent internal options"

This is the future folks

[hugh jardon]

ok we cant i know that- but i am remembering a time when we actually competed in the transfer market and formed a fantastic squad. 97 to about 2005. remembering it can actually make me very sad. remember where u were when u heard we had nicked sol campbell..

Yeah but unfortunately we had that appeal then that would make Sol want to join us from the scum.

These days we wouldn't stand a chance. If anything, it would be the other way around unfortunately.

Thing is we've been spending money but buying dross. I honestly do believe that David Dein was THE big factor in making us successful back then. His departure coincided with our rapid decline. I would welcome him back to the club with open arms.

Interesting to see David Dein's popularity at an all time high these days with the club struggling to compete at the top.

Dein excelled in transfer negotiations that brought in players such as Wright, Bergkamp, Campbell and many more. He had huge ambitions for the club, no doubt a huge loss to the club.

On the flip side he came up with the Bond scheme in the 90's and also convinced the club to put in a bid to buy Wembley as our new stadium which would have been awful.

He bought his 16% shares in 1983 for £292,000 and sold a similar amount when he left the club for a reported £75m.

[augie]

I'm sorry but people are in too much of a hurry to make excuses for our pathetic efforts This theory about wenger wanting parity for his players is so fcuking flawed and is just a bullshit excuse on his part - if equal pay is so important for harmony then does that mean all the coaches are on the same pay level as he is ? Are they even all the same wage as each other ? Surely they would have to be if he really believes in his thesis ?

As regards being lumbered with players on too high wages then there is the solution that I suggested the other day.......pay them off. If another club wants to buy diaby or bendtner and is willing to pay half his current wages then we pay the other half each month or in a one off lump payment at the time of their transfer. Surely even he can see that yes we will be paying 30k a week for a player no longer at our club but we will also be releasing the other 30k to go towards the wages of a player that might actually contribute something to this club. As it is we are paying big wages to the likes of vela who are playing elsewhere so what is the difference ?

Bottom line is that our shit performance has more to do with wenger ideals than a lack of money

[REB]

maybe wenger is going in the summer and his replacement is already lined up and knows who to buy but cant get them till summer

or hes a tight old *word censored* who hates spending money

#WOBARMY

[QuartzGooner]

ok we cant i know that- but i am remembering a time when we actually competed in the transfer market and formed a fantastic squad. 97 to about 2005. remembering it can actually make me very sad. remember where u were when u heard we had nicked sol campbell..

Yeah but unfortunately we had that appeal then that would make Sol want to join us from the scum.

These days we wouldn't stand a chance. If anything, it would be the other way around unfortunately.

Thing is we've been spending money but buying dross. I honestly do believe that David Dein was THE big factor in making us successful back then. His departure coincided with our rapid decline. I would welcome him back to the club with open arms.

Interesting to see David Dein's popularity at an all time high these days with the club struggling to compete at the top.

Dein excelled in transfer negotiations that brought in players such as Wright, Bergkamp, Campbell and many more. He had huge ambitions for the club, no doubt a huge loss to the club.

On the flip side he came up with the Bond scheme in the 90's and also convinced the club to put in a bid to buy Wembley as our new stadium which would have been awful.

He bought his 16% shares in 1983 for £292,000 and sold a similar amount when he left the club for a reported £75m.

The bond scheme made a profit for bondholders, or s I am told, I stand to be corrected if it did not.

Selling shares for a profit is not a crime, at the time he bought them Hill-Wood infamously called it "dead money".

The Wembley issue is interesting.
Most fans felt it soulless and bad for transport links.
But many fans say that about the Grove.

I am in favour of the new stadium, so was Dein, but Dein wanted to try staying at Highbury for a few seasons longer, before building a new stadium.

The advantages of that are a moot point.

Less fans would have seen the games.

But our £20M a year payments to pay off the stadium would not exist.
Then again, if we would have used the profits from Highbury on players we would be more competitive on the pitch.

But if we did not use the profits to stash away to eventually spend on a new stadium, then the move would have hit us whenever it happened.

As to the thread title:

I think Wenger knew the funds would decrease with the stadium move, so concentrated on youth.
The board went along with it, and continue to do so as they like to spend carefully.

But I think even the staunchest old school board members feel that Wenger has gone a bit far in not spending, but there is little they can do about it.

Kroenke is the only one with any real say so, and how much input has he had into the playing side?

I do not know.

Last summer's transfer window posed a huge question.

Did Wenger really line up the five post Man Utd signings over the summer, or did he react to the defeat by asking a fawning board for money, or demanding money from a reticent board and going on a buying spree?

Or by spending money he already had but had not touched until then?

Or did Kroenke tell Gazidis to go and buy players after that defeat?

Everything I have ever heard about Wenger is that he is a control freak who runs all the transfers, with Friar and Gazidis and Law doing the admin.

But the pattern of spending last summer was so odd, that something just had to have gone on behind the scenes in the days after the Man Utd defeat.

[augie]

Another excuse I am sick of hearing in relation to our lack of spending is that we cannot be expected to compete financially with the likes of citeeh, the chavs or manure but ffs we are being outspent by almost every club in the premier league I had to listen to that patronising *word censored* oliver holt on skys sunday supplement belittle us Gooners over our reactions in the manure game and he is another that totally misses the point......how does our inability to financially compete with the richest clubs explain defeats to blackburn,fulham,swansea etc ?

No more fcuking excuses for this french fcuking *word censored*

[Barriecuda]

The idea that "we can't compete financially" should not mean "we won't compete on the field". There's great additions to be bought at more than fair prices. Scott Parker? Would have been a good addition at a paltry 8m. Vermaelen and Koscielny (in his second year anyway) have proved to be great buys at around 8-12m each; not a significant transfer fee in the modern market (especially considering if guys like Carrol can get 35m). With a club the size of Arsenal, buys at 10-15m should be quite doable and there are players at those values who can compete with the City's and United's. Just because City can spend a lot doesn't mean we have an excuse to barely make 4th place.

I believe we have not bought well in recent years. I feel like we spend $0.50 where we should spend $1, so to speak. We cheap out and pay for it in the long run. I feel like we pinched pennies over Mata, and lost one of the best players in the league this year. Chamakh and JYP have played at the level of 1-2m players, which is pretty much what we spent on them.

I'm in a bit of a hurry so this isn't my most concise post but bear with me.

World class talent costs 20m-30m. There is no reason we should not be adding a player at this level every 12-24 months, considering the size and revenue of our club, IMO. Look at the impact Arshavin had; imagine if we bought a better player, who was also younger, for a bit more than that. Arshavin gave the fans something to get excited about, filled seats, and gave us some exceptional performances, for a while. He's cooled off. Why not do it again? It's a hard figure to measure, but surely AA's contributions in that hot streak made the club a lot of money.

I'm not saying go out and buy 11-15 players at these values. But a couple of big buys at 15 or 25m here or there goes a LONG way. Arteta has been a brilliant addition. Spend the fucking money, get a Goetze or Hazard or whoever in there to provide some spark, and we'll be significantly better off for it. Chelsea and City and United and Sp*rs, for the most part, aren't spending figures that are out of our realm (or out of any top European team's realm). Wenger makes it sound like 70m is the going price for a decent player. We made how much on Nasri and Cesc's sales last year? Where did that go, anyway?

We could probably compete "financially". If we wanted to. I'd just love to know where our money is going. Are we stockpiling it? Is Wenger just being a miser? Is the board putting it directly into payments for the stadium? I think we'd all be a lot more content if they just honestly told us where the fuck the dollars are.