As we're unlikely to see terraces again at football, this is the virtual equivalent where you can chat to your hearts content about all football matters and, obviously, Arsenal in particular. This forum encourages all Gooners to visit and contribute so please keep it respectful, clean and topical.
SteveO 35 wrote:Lets put this lack of coaching thing to bed once and for all. Those that defend him, make reference to his 80 odd caps for Germany. He is supposed to be an experienced international class defender. Are you seriously claiming that six months at Arsenal have changed all that and turned him from being a world class defender to an awful one.
Yuo're only as strong as your weakest link.
Hes playing with Djourou ffs. (This does not explain his lack of jumping ability though)
SteveO 35 wrote:Lets put this lack of coaching thing to bed once and for all. Those that defend him, make reference to his 80 odd caps for Germany. He is supposed to be an experienced international class defender. Are you seriously claiming that six months at Arsenal have changed all that and turned him from being a world class defender to an awful one.
Yuo're only as strong as your weakest link.
Hes playing with Djourou ffs. (This does not explain his lack of jumping ability though)
Koscileny is also playing with Djourou and seems to be doing OK.
The rest of the back five today were all first choice Wenger players
Any more excuses for the fact that he can't run, tackle, jump, head, position himself properly, or add anything offensively
Must be all down to the last six months coaching I guess
SteveO 35 wrote:Lets put this lack of coaching thing to bed once and for all. Those that defend him, make reference to his 80 odd caps for Germany. He is supposed to be an experienced international class defender. Are you seriously claiming that six months at Arsenal have changed all that and turned him from being a world class defender to an awful one.
Yuo're only as strong as your weakest link.
Hes playing with Djourou ffs. (This does not explain his lack of jumping ability though)
Koscileny is also playing with Djourou and seems to be doing OK.
The rest of the back five today were all first choice Wenger players
Any more excuses for the fact that he can't run, tackle, jump, head, position himself properly, or add anything offensively
Must be all down to the last six months coaching I guess
Notice you didn't mention TV. TV didn't cover himself in glory today. If anything it was Durex and him at fault for their first goal.
Do you hate the BFG as much as you love Diaby?
AS, I've seen the replays and it honestly doesn't look like he touched that hateable *word censored* Welbeck, I might just say I didn't see it and blame the ref
If Mertesacker is so shit, why has he been playing for Germany for years then? You say about Heskey, which is a valid point. But you look at the aptitude of the managers that deployed Heskey, you have your explanation right there. The German FA or whoever strike me as alot more adept at choosing managers with intelligence. I'm telling you, with a proper defensive coach Mertesacker would be alright.
SteveO 35 wrote:Lets put this lack of coaching thing to bed once and for all. Those that defend him, make reference to his 80 odd caps for Germany. He is supposed to be an experienced international class defender. Are you seriously claiming that six months at Arsenal have changed all that and turned him from being a world class defender to an awful one.
Yuo're only as strong as your weakest link.
Hes playing with Djourou ffs. (This does not explain his lack of jumping ability though)
Koscileny is also playing with Djourou and seems to be doing OK.
The rest of the back five today were all first choice Wenger players
Any more excuses for the fact that he can't run, tackle, jump, head, position himself properly, or add anything offensively
Must be all down to the last six months coaching I guess
Notice you didn't mention TV. TV didn't cover himself in glory today. If anything it was Durex and him at fault for their first goal.
Do you hate the BFG as much as you love Diaby?
Ahh yes, I wondered how long it would be before you brought Diaby's name up in another game he didn't take part in...how predictable. How much are his wages again. 65k, 85k, or are they up to 120k per week now?? You must hate not having him in the side to blame - who do you take it out on now? No Almunia, Denilson, or Eboue either?
I don't hate the non-jumping German mate, I just don't think he's very good. TV5 is playing at left back in case it escaped your attention and did pretty well there. If the 80 capped wonder was half as versatile perhaps we could give him a go out there eh? After all most of the rest of our CBs have had to be thrown out there at least once this year. But we all know that the German has the turning circle of the QE2 so not much chance of seeing him filling in there....
Sutch wrote:
If Mertesacker is so shit, why has he been playing for Germany for years then?
I think the problem is, instead of highlighting his wonderful performances in an Arsenal shirt, some people keep falling back on the 'German caps' argument to justify his existence, and that's wearing a little thin.
Personally, I'm undecided. Loads of people on here were saying Koscielny was shit last year, yet now he's had time to settle in, he's doing ok... hopefully Mertesacker will be the same, but until we know, many on here will insist he's shit. It's just the way it is, I'm afraid.
SteveO 35 wrote:Lets put this lack of coaching thing to bed once and for all. Those that defend him, make reference to his 80 odd caps for Germany. He is supposed to be an experienced international class defender. Are you seriously claiming that six months at Arsenal have changed all that and turned him from being a world class defender to an awful one.
Yuo're only as strong as your weakest link.
Hes playing with Djourou ffs. (This does not explain his lack of jumping ability though)
Koscileny is also playing with Djourou and seems to be doing OK.
The rest of the back five today were all first choice Wenger players
Any more excuses for the fact that he can't run, tackle, jump, head, position himself properly, or add anything offensively
Must be all down to the last six months coaching I guess
Notice you didn't mention TV. TV didn't cover himself in glory today. If anything it was Durex and him at fault for their first goal.
Do you hate the BFG as much as you love Diaby?
Ahh yes, I wondered how long it would be before you brought Diaby's name up in another game he didn't take part in...how predictable. How much are his wages again. 65k, 85k, or are they up to 120k per week now?? You must hate not having him in the side to blame - who do you take it out on now? No Almunia, Denilson, or Eboue either?
I don't hate the non-jumping German mate, I just don't think he's very good. TV5 is playing at left back in case it escaped your attention and did pretty well there. If the 80 capped wonder was half as versatile perhaps we could give him a go out there eh? After all most of the rest of our CBs have had to be thrown out there at least once this year. But we all know that the German has the turning circle of the QE2 so not much chance of seeing him filling in there....
You're not going to see Vidic, Terry, Lucio or Hangeland filling in anywhere other than CB either.
Some CB's are not versatile, Mertesacker is one of them.
I think he brings some organisation & composure to the back 4 but often ends up being the weak link on the field, partly due to his lack of pace which means we end up struggling to effectively play a high line. I don't watch any Bundesliga but I heard it was well known that he looked brilliant 3/4 years ago when he had 2 DM's playing infront of him but as soon as Bremen stopped playing like that he got somewhat exposed, hence why there wasn't a whole lot of competition for the signature of someone with his "pedigree". If we did start playing with 2 DM's then I'd expect him to be a much better fit but if that doesn't happen & I see no reason why Arsene would suddenly switch tactics, he'll still struggle playing a high line.
I'm also shocked by his aerial ability or lack of, he can barely get off the ground when he jumps & keeps getting beaten in the air by much shorter players.
I know we have issues coaching the defence & I'm not sure any CB would have panned out but at that price range I still would rather have gone for Samba, Cahill, Johnson or Dann, premier league tested & ready players. I actually would have given serious thought to signing the Johnson + Dann partnership, with them fit B'ham kept a ridiculous number of clean sheets & a 9th place finiish, without them together they were dismal & got relegated.
armchair supporter wrote:
Yuo're only as strong as your weakest link.
Hes playing with Djourou ffs. (This does not explain his lack of jumping ability though)
Koscileny is also playing with Djourou and seems to be doing OK.
The rest of the back five today were all first choice Wenger players
Any more excuses for the fact that he can't run, tackle, jump, head, position himself properly, or add anything offensively
Must be all down to the last six months coaching I guess
Notice you didn't mention TV. TV didn't cover himself in glory today. If anything it was Durex and him at fault for their first goal.
Do you hate the BFG as much as you love Diaby?
Ahh yes, I wondered how long it would be before you brought Diaby's name up in another game he didn't take part in...how predictable. How much are his wages again. 65k, 85k, or are they up to 120k per week now?? You must hate not having him in the side to blame - who do you take it out on now? No Almunia, Denilson, or Eboue either?
I don't hate the non-jumping German mate, I just don't think he's very good. TV5 is playing at left back in case it escaped your attention and did pretty well there. If the 80 capped wonder was half as versatile perhaps we could give him a go out there eh? After all most of the rest of our CBs have had to be thrown out there at least once this year. But we all know that the German has the turning circle of the QE2 so not much chance of seeing him filling in there....
You're not going to see Vidic, Terry, Lucio or Hangeland filling in anywhere other than CB either.
Some CB's are not versatile, Mertesacker is one of them.
I watched glimpses of the Citeh-scum game earlier and saw with every ball into the box how commanding and powerful King and Kaboul were and thought why the fuck do they have that and we don't? COACHING
SteveO 35 wrote:
Koscileny is also playing with Djourou and seems to be doing OK.
The rest of the back five today were all first choice Wenger players
Any more excuses for the fact that he can't run, tackle, jump, head, position himself properly, or add anything offensively
Must be all down to the last six months coaching I guess
Notice you didn't mention TV. TV didn't cover himself in glory today. If anything it was Durex and him at fault for their first goal.
Do you hate the BFG as much as you love Diaby?
Ahh yes, I wondered how long it would be before you brought Diaby's name up in another game he didn't take part in...how predictable. How much are his wages again. 65k, 85k, or are they up to 120k per week now?? You must hate not having him in the side to blame - who do you take it out on now? No Almunia, Denilson, or Eboue either?
I don't hate the non-jumping German mate, I just don't think he's very good. TV5 is playing at left back in case it escaped your attention and did pretty well there. If the 80 capped wonder was half as versatile perhaps we could give him a go out there eh? After all most of the rest of our CBs have had to be thrown out there at least once this year. But we all know that the German has the turning circle of the QE2 so not much chance of seeing him filling in there....
You're not going to see Vidic, Terry, Lucio or Hangeland filling in anywhere other than CB either.
Some CB's are not versatile, Mertesacker is one of them.
I beg to differ. After RVP hes our best CF.
Now that I do agree with. He showed more threat up there than Maryanne the Camel has all year
I for one believe that if he had chipped in with, ooooh 3-4 goals so far this season, he would currently be being exhalted as a master signing by Wenger and people would be stroking their cocks at the thought of him and Vermaelen in partnership once we have some full backs.
But
That's just me.
My real point.
Ain't no body can be signed, no money can be spent to cleanse the defensive mess that is Arsenal these days.
Tactics and training.
Tactics and training.
Repeat ad infinitum.
Wrong there buddy. Tactics and training can only work so far and then the raw talent of the player in question kicks in. Prime example: Walcott.
He can train all day and all night but that isn't going to make his touch better. After six years he's still making the same mistakes every other game.
Whereas AOC on numerous ocassions today controlled the ball in situations where Walcott would have had no hope in doing so and he hasn't had a fraction of the 'training' that Walcott has had. In the end it comes down to the talent that the player posesses. There's no doubt that if we have a blank cheque players such as Walcott, djorou etc.. would be nowhere near the first 11.
Why are you talking about the players who today played front left and front right of our top 3 when I am talking about organizing our defence?
SteveO 35 wrote:Lets put this lack of coaching thing to bed once and for all. Those that defend him, make reference to his 80 odd caps for Germany. He is supposed to be an experienced international class defender. Are you seriously claiming that six months at Arsenal have changed all that and turned him from being a world class defender to an awful one.
And I'll give you guys a 2 for 1 here.
Defence is coached as a unit. One goalkeeper, two full backs and two central defenders.
You could drop Franco Baresi at his peak into our back 4 tomorrow and he'd still be exposed time and time again.
SteveO it's why I don't rate Vermaelen. There is nothing he can do as an individual that will keep us from conceeding too many goals.
From what these guys started as to what they became was all about coaching. Day in day out.
I firmly believe that even the most average player but with a decent amount of athletic ability can be moulded into a good defending footballer.
Defence can be learned through hard work and repetitive action. If you stop working on it you will not be as good as you once were. This is true of almost anything in life.
SteveO 35 wrote:Lets put this lack of coaching thing to bed once and for all. Those that defend him, make reference to his 80 odd caps for Germany. He is supposed to be an experienced international class defender. Are you seriously claiming that six months at Arsenal have changed all that and turned him from being a world class defender to an awful one.
Yuo're only as strong as your weakest link.
Hes playing with Djourou ffs. (This does not explain his lack of jumping ability though)
Koscileny is also playing with Djourou and seems to be doing OK.
The rest of the back five today were all first choice Wenger players
Any more excuses for the fact that he can't run, tackle, jump, head, position himself properly, or add anything offensively
Must be all down to the last six months coaching I guess
He wasn't last year though was he. He looked fucking awful last year.
So what, Wenger is right about this needing a full season to adjust.
Number 5 wrote:
Why are you talking about the players who today played front left and front right of our top 3 when I am talking about organizing our defence?
Because you put the the problems of our defence down to two things, tactics and training, and i showed you that these do not necessarily make as big a difference as you seem to think, hence the walcott and ox example.
There's only so much that tactics and training can do for a player and then it's down to the individual's talent. The same applies to our defensive players. You can try and train djorou into becoming a better defender every day of the week but he still wouldn't have the natural positional awareness of Vermaelen or his determination in winning headers, or Koscielny's technical ability in successfully carrying out tackles.
