AKB's

[Red Member]

I suppose I have been an AKB this season but do think he is under pressure this summer to get things right.
If he feels that he cant get a side together for the start of next season that is going to be competitive then he should probabaly think about leaving. It is getting too long without a trophy now.

[Gunnerz4life]

Agree with JD, I have lot of time for Moyes as a manager and he will be an improvement on Wenger in a number of areas but will he be able to handle the pressure that comes with managing a more glamourous club? Roy Hodgson is a decent manager and look what happened at him at the victims. Also will he be able to identify and attract top players to the club? Wenger's replacement has to be someone who has experience in winning trophies.

Moyes has had f**k all money to spend in his 10 years with the toffee's - yes people can point to some big money signings (like afro fellani) but he has had to sell to generate funds and if you are constantly selling your best players how can your team ever really improve and a manager is judged by whether their team is improving or not so moyes is operating with 2 hands behind his back in that regard. Some defend wenger's transfer activity (or lack thereof) in recent seasons by claiming that he has f**k all to spend (despite everyone within the club inc wenger saying otherwise) but I will say without doubt moyes purchases on a similar net spend is far far better than wengers in the past 3 years.
Personally I would be happy enough if moyes was our next manager - will he lead us back into success ? I dont know the answer to that but I do know that the team would play with passion and commitment consistantly and not just when they can be arsed plus he would set his team up with some tactical shape
Btw woy hodgson took over victims fc at an absolutely shocking time - the owners were despised, the fans were pulling against the club as a result, the players were totally frustrated and some left and with the club in such turmoil no quality player was interested in joining them. It was a poisonous chalice and hodgson hadnt a prayer so it should not be viewed as a reflection of his ability or performance

But isn't passion and tactics the least we should expect from any manager to instill in the team? The GIC have been so inept in both these areas that we are craving for something that should be the minimum requirement. Moyes will be a major improvement on Wenger in this regard. Also I am not raising a question on Moyes' transfer policy, the guy had done remarkarbly in keeping Everton there and there abouts even after losing their best players. My concern is whether he will be able to handle the pressure because he will not be given the same time that majority of the fans are giving Wenger. I'd take Moyes over Wenger, the likes of Rodgers and Lambert or any recuitment we do on Wenger's advice, but we can do a lot better.

[augie]

Yes passion and committment is the bare minimum we should expect but the sad fact is that we are simply not getting that on anywhere near a consistant basis anymore Others might disagree but for me we are at a rebuilding crossroads right now (and even more so if rvp leaves) - yes I know that a few quality signings could lift us back into the winners spot again but at the same time there is so much dross in the squad that needs clearing out and that to me suggests the need for a radical overhaul. We all know that there is no way in the world wenger would instigate such a move so then we need a new manager that would be ruthless enough to either procede with that cull in full or get shot of the worst players and at least motivate the others enough to use them for a season before getting rid of them too. Moyes's passion would, imo at least, lift those players willing to be lifted and right now that would be an improvement on what we have so going in the right direction has to be our aim

[highburyJD]

Moyes has had f**k all money to spend in his 10 years with the toffee's - yes people can point to some big money signings (like afro fellani) but he has had to sell to generate funds and if you are constantly selling your best players how can your team ever really improve and a manager is judged by whether their team is improving or not so moyes is operating with 2 hands behind his back in that regard.

broke their transfer record with Bilyetadinov and Beattie his other big money signings include van der meyde, andy johnson, yakubu (good now after being sold for a fraction of what he was bought for)
so of his big money signings only Fellaini is even nearly a success
and loads on here don't rate him - he would have been one of our top ten most expensive players FFS!

[augie]

Moyes has had f**k all money to spend in his 10 years with the toffee's - yes people can point to some big money signings (like afro fellani) but he has had to sell to generate funds and if you are constantly selling your best players how can your team ever really improve and a manager is judged by whether their team is improving or not so moyes is operating with 2 hands behind his back in that regard.

broke their transfer record with Bilyetadinov and Beattie his other big money signings include van der meyde, andy johnson, yakubu (good now after being sold for a fraction of what he was bought for)
so of his big money signings only Fellaini is even nearly a success
and loads on here don't rate him - he would have been one of our top ten most expensive players FFS!

I am not disagreeing with any of that but compare it to wenger's purchases in the last few transfer windows of which only two have proven at this stage to be good buys (kos and arteta) and maybe ox will join that list. Now look at the duds.....mertesacker (who I still believe can come good but hasnt shown enough yet),santos,benyoun,the forehead, squillachi,jenkinson,park,chamakh,joel campbell and eisfeld (where is he ?? ) and they have been in the last 2 seasons alone and you must admit that it doesnt make good reading

[REB]

a bit unfair to have jenkinson in your list augie , a player who always gives his all and wants to play for the shirt , also joel cambell and eisfeld cant be classed as bad buys just yet surely.

[highburyJD]

reb is obv right - you cant call loan or youth players bad signings already
also I still think Mertesacker was a good signing - doubt we would be in the position we are now without him

[SteveO 35]

Moyes has had f**k all money to spend in his 10 years with the toffee's - yes people can point to some big money signings (like afro fellani) but he has had to sell to generate funds and if you are constantly selling your best players how can your team ever really improve and a manager is judged by whether their team is improving or not so moyes is operating with 2 hands behind his back in that regard.

broke their transfer record with Bilyetadinov and Beattie his other big money signings include van der meyde, andy johnson, yakubu (good now after being sold for a fraction of what he was bought for)
so of his big money signings only Fellaini is even nearly a success
and loads on here don't rate him - he would have been one of our top ten most expensive players FFS!

You can argue this whichever way you choose. I have already posted a longer list of all his cheaper signings that did work out. If we're talking about expensive flops that were sold on for a fraction of that value later then a list containing Francis Jeffers, Richard Wright, Geo van Bronckhorst, Sylvain Wiltord, Jose Reyes could also put forward on Wenger's side.

Moyes's track record in the transfer market is as good as any.

[augie]

a bit unfair to have jenkinson in your list augie , a player who always gives his all and wants to play for the shirt , also joel cambell and eisfeld cant be classed as bad buys just yet surely.

Rebs what I meant was that some cannot be called good buys yet (jenkinson, mert, eisfeld) and I mistakenly lumped them in with the shite that wenger has bought (shitatchi,chamakh, park) and I stand by that. My reason for even referring to that is that some slate moyes over his transfer record as use it as a reason why he isnt as good as wenger and I merely wanted to point out that wenger's transfer record is at best average and at worst very poor

My question re eisfeld stands.....where is he ? At that age he is def old enough to be a fisrt team player, he doesnt have an issue with a work permit so why is he nowhere near the matchday squad ? Has anybody seen him ? Is he any good ?

[highburyJD]

Moyes's track record in the transfer market is as good as any.

it's not as good as Wengers
IMO Everton would be in our position now if AW had gone there in '96
Moyes hasn't won anything - he even gave up his '4th place trophy' in a playoff
when the very biggest games come - that playoff, the cup semi - Moyes teams haven't ever had what it takes

[SteveO 35]

Moyes's track record in the transfer market is as good as any.

it's not as good as Wengers
IMO Everton would be in our position now if AW had gone there in '96
Moyes hasn't won anything - he even gave up his '4th place trophy' in a playoff
when the very biggest games come - that playoff, the cup semi - Moyes teams haven't ever had what it takes

We will never know, but I disagree with that assessment completely.

What did Wenger inherit at Arsenal ? A team in the UEFA Cup under Rioch, the finest back four and goalkeeper in the club's history, Dennis Bergkamp, David Platt and a record breaking goalscorer in Ian Wright. Now, I am the first to give credit where its due and what he also inherited was a crock of shit in midfield and some also rans that needed moving on, which he did very well. But lets remember - he had some world class players and a team that finished in the top 5.

If he'd have taken Everton over when Moyes did what would he have inherited? A team that had spent the previous five seasons scrapping against relegation, with no star quality whatsoever and whose main celebration was staying up on the last day of the season against Wimbledon.

Moyes 'giving up the 4th placed trophy in a play off' ? You mean losing to Villareal who went on to the Semi-final where a last minute penalty save from Mad Jens prevented extra time. Everton were robbed in Spain by an awful decision too.

You clearly have no respect or regard for Moyes, but I think you should look into his record and what he inherited before being so dismissive

[highburyJD]

I know Moyes record well thanks
he's a very very good manager - we just need more than that.
Of course Colina cancelling bigDunc's goal was a shocker (blew his whistle very very early, extremely strange decision)
but nonetheless that and/or semi v Liverpool was Moyes biggest game and his teams lost both

if Wenger went to Everton in '96 Google tells me he would actually have inherited a much stronger squad than I would have guessed:
Southall, Barret, Hinchcliffe, Unsworth, Watson, Phelan, Stuart, Rideout, Ferguson, Speed, Barmby, Parkinson, Short, Ball, Dunne, Jackson, Kanchelskis, Limpar, Samways, Ebrell

But I wasn't trying to say he would have won the league straight away like he did at Arsenal (although throw Vieira, Petit, Anelka and Overmars into the squad above and I don't see why not. Toffees better than I expected that year)

My point was later, no reason to think any of the Invincibles wouldn't have signed for Everton

[SteveO 35]

I know Moyes record well thanks
he's a very very good manager - we just need more than that.
Of course Colina cancelling bigDunc's goal was a shocker (blew his whistle very very early, extremely strange decision)
but nonetheless that and/or semi v Liverpool was Moyes biggest game and his teams lost both

if Wenger went to Everton in '96 Google tells me he would actually have inherited a much stronger squad than I would have guessed:
Southall, Barret, Hinchcliffe, Unsworth, Watson, Phelan, Stuart, Rideout, Ferguson, Speed, Barmby, Parkinson, Short, Ball, Dunne, Jackson, Kanchelskis, Limpar, Samways, Ebrell
But I wasn't trying to say he would have won the league straight away like he did at Arsenal (although throw Vieira, Petit, Anelka and Overmars into the squad above and I don't see why not. Toffees better than I expected that year)

My point was later, no reason to think any of the Invincibles wouldn't have signed for Everton

But Moyes didn't go to Everton in '96 either so what is the point of that argument? Who knows what Moyes would have achieved with that squad either. Moyes went to Everton when they were shit - far worse than that 1996 team that had won the FA Cup the previous season. You can only judge him on what he has achieved at the clubs he's been at during the time he's been there - not what might have been six years before.

Go and take a look at the Everton 2001 team - outside of Ferguson their striking options were a 16 stone lumbering Kevin Campbell, Phil Jevons (a League 2 player) and Danny Cadamarteri (a man not good enough for Huddersfield Town). A midfield packed with average players like Scot Gemmill and Idan Tal, Paul Gerrard in goal and a host of shocking defenders (Pistone etc). To transform that lot to a CL top 4 team was remarkable and on far lower resources for wages and transfers than Wenger

[Gunnerz4life]

Undermining what Moyes had done at Everton by speculating Wenger would have done a lot better is extremely insulting. It can be also said that if Ferguson came to Arsenal before GG and Wenger, he would have eclipsed both their records by a distance.

[I Hate Hleb]

...

Btw woy hodgson took over victims fc at an absolutely shocking time - the owners were despised, the fans were pulling against the club as a result, the players were totally frustrated and some left and with the club in such turmoil no quality player was interested in joining them. It was a poisonous chalice and hodgson hadnt a prayer so it should not be viewed as a reflection of his ability or performance

And the difference with us is?