The peculiar case of Bayern Munich

[OOKed]

Moved to a new stadium in 2005 (total cost €340M ~ £280M) - given that the City of Munich added £172M to the pot for area /transport development around the stadium. Arsenal's Ashburton cost around £390M.

Tops the world list in generating commercial income (in 2010 - £135M as opposed to Arsenal's £48M)

Cheap domestic ticket prices.

Make the occasional top market signing (Ribery/Robben £25M each) - never fall flat in player sales and hold their ground against your usual Spanish tapping predators.

Wage Bill of £118M (2010) only £14M or so higher than Arsenal.

Invest the vast majority of any profit they would make back into the squad and most importantly fans - (Pre-Tax profit 09 figures: Bayern £1M / Arsenal £40M).

Do have a stadium debt being repaid at a faster rate than ours. That's a well run club !

Are we chasing shadows keeping our profit sitting around waiting for a rainy day, instead of try to emulate (i know they make more money and are more successful than us) them in our finances ?

Are we hoping this holy grail, of renewing sponsorship deals over the new few years will lift us, from our tightened restraints and high prices ? I mean, we don't even spend the money we make as profit wisely now .. what signs are there than when we free more cash from new deals we will be able to spend lusciously ?

source: http://swissramble.blogspot.co.uk/2010/ ... ibery.html

[QuartzGooner]

I think to an extent we will always have a partial handicap in commercial income because we are competing with so many clubs for the support of Londoners.

[I Hate Hleb]

Plus the fact that the Arsenal Board isn't as hungry for success as Bayern's one obviously is.

[RioGooner]

Bayern is a club made for sucess, our is made for profit. Simple diference. They'll add more players to their squad whenever they feel necessary, as long as the club breaks even, because that's mandatory in the Bundesliga. They already have a top prospect for next season ( Xaquiri) and they should add a new CB, because theirs are shit.

And we'll still be fighting for the 4th place throphy, naturally.

[Barriecuda]

Germans are efficient

But yes, Bayern is a storied history where people expect European success - that necessitates big signings and a competitive team at all times.

Arsenal historically aren't of the same quality and we are a very young "superclub". We do have the foundations to become as big as Bayern though.

[REB]

I think to an extent we will always have a partial handicap in commercial income because we are competing with so many clubs for the support of Londoners.

do you feel that the club took there eye off the ball regarding londoners a long time ago and now its the international market thats the holy grail so to speak. 10 million facebookers over 1 million on twitter etc where i assume hardly any are londoners ,
as for bayern they will always have money since half of germany seems to support them.

[Perryashburtongroves]

It does make you wonder doesn't it. All this talk from Arsenal about not being able to compete with the 'Petro-dollars' from Chavsea and Man City or the Glazers at Man. Utd or the money from Barcelona, Real Madrid and both Milan clubs forgetting quite conveniently clubs like Bayern Munich who face similar obstacles to us but yet still manage to buy big players and compete for the top prizes. Perhaps our board need to be quizzed about this at some stage.

Bayern are a major powerhouse in the German-speaking world- probably as big as Man Utd- with a long history of success. If they aren't performing to the standards expected, then changes are made. Don't forget that this was a club that a few years back played in the Europa League and since then have made it to two European Cup finals. Us on the other hand, have this 'amazing' record of 15 years in a row in the competition and have managed one final and one semi-final collapse. It really is worth comparing the two clubs because neither is massively bankrolled and still goes toe-to-toe with those that are and often beats them and the other just plods along. According to our board all will be ok when those UEFA rules kick-in but surely they have forgotten about teams like Bayern, Lyon or Ajax.

[stg]

London-
Arsenal FC-59995
Chelsea FC-41507
Fulham FC-25272
Tottenham Hotspur-36026
West Ham United-30738
Charlton Athletic-16977
Crystal Palace-15206
Queens Park Rangers-17294
Leyton Orient-4307
Millwall-11410
Barnet-2168
Brentford-5564
Deganham and Redbridge-2078

Total average number of fans going to London clubs = 268542

Munich-
FC Bayern Munich-69000
TSV 1860 Munich- 20000

Total average number of fans going to Munich clubs = 89000

perhaps it maybe diffrent for BM if they were compeating with another 11(if not more) clubs in the surrouding area.

The distance between BM and it's closet rival in the Bundesliga(this season) is 35 miles and that is Augsburg
The distance between BM and closest one of the other top 10 teams in the Bundesliga is 116 miles(stuttgart)
There are also only 18 clubs in the Bundesliga

comparing Arsenal with B.Munich is like apples and pears both fruits both grown on trees but are totaly diffrent

[RoscommonGooner]

London-
Arsenal FC-59995
Chelsea FC-41507
Fulham FC-25272
Tottenham Hotspur-36026
West Ham United-30738
Charlton Athletic-16977
Crystal Palace-15206
Queens Park Rangers-17294
Leyton Orient-4307
Millwall-11410
Barnet-2168
Brentford-5564
Deganham and Redbridge-2078

Total average number of fans going to London clubs = 268542

Munich-
FC Bayern Munich-69000
TSV 1860 Munich- 20000

Total average number of fans going to Munich clubs = 89000

perhaps it maybe diffrent for BM if they were compeating with another 11(if not more) clubs in the surrouding area.

The distance between BM and it's closet rival in the Bundesliga(this season) is 35 miles and that is Augsburg
The distance between BM and closest one of the other top 10 teams in the Bundesliga is 116 miles(stuttgart)
There are also only 18 clubs in the Bundesliga

comparing Arsenal with B.Munich is like apples and pears both fruits both grown on trees but are totaly diffrent

Should the bit in bold not be 44,500? Also you should factor in the population of the 2 cities 7.8m v 1.3m

[donaldo]

perhaps it maybe diffrent for BM if they were compeating with another 11(if not more) clubs in the surrouding area.

The distance between BM and it's closet rival in the Bundesliga(this season) is 35 miles and that is Augsburg
The distance between BM and closest one of the other top 10 teams in the Bundesliga is 116 miles(stuttgart)
There are also only 18 clubs in the Bundesliga

Do you seriously think we are competing with Barnet Dagenham Orient Brentford Charlton Millwall and Palace for fans???

[stg]

London-
Arsenal FC-59995
Chelsea FC-41507
Fulham FC-25272
Tottenham Hotspur-36026
West Ham United-30738
Charlton Athletic-16977
Crystal Palace-15206
Queens Park Rangers-17294
Leyton Orient-4307
Millwall-11410
Barnet-2168
Brentford-5564
Deganham and Redbridge-2078

Total average number of fans going to London clubs = 268542

Munich-
FC Bayern Munich-69000
TSV 1860 Munich- 20000

Total average number of fans going to Munich clubs = 89000

perhaps it maybe diffrent for BM if they were compeating with another 11(if not more) clubs in the surrouding area.

The distance between BM and it's closet rival in the Bundesliga(this season) is 35 miles and that is Augsburg
The distance between BM and closest one of the other top 10 teams in the Bundesliga is 116 miles(stuttgart)
There are also only 18 clubs in the Bundesliga

comparing Arsenal with B.Munich is like apples and pears both fruits both grown on trees but are totaly diffrent

Should the bit in bold not be 44,500? Also you should factor in the population of the 2 cities 7.8m v 1.3m

yes sorry shouldnt of put average but the figures are of average attendances
So each team in London gets 24500 fans
each team in Munich gets 44500 fans

for London clubs to get to 44500 fans for each club there needs to be 6 London clubs with 268542 fans going !!

[stg]

perhaps it maybe diffrent for BM if they were compeating with another 11(if not more) clubs in the surrouding area.

The distance between BM and it's closet rival in the Bundesliga(this season) is 35 miles and that is Augsburg
The distance between BM and closest one of the other top 10 teams in the Bundesliga is 116 miles(stuttgart)
There are also only 18 clubs in the Bundesliga

Do you seriously think we are competing with Barnet Dagenham Orient Brentford Charlton Millwall and Palace for fans???

No but on the other hand BM are only competing against 1 other team in the local area. Arsenal are competing against 7 teams with or around the same average attendance as B.Munich's local rival

[kite]

Bayern is the only "big" club in Germany. They say every german player wants to play for Bayern Munich and it's not that wrong. In Germany only Bayern is a regular CL contender. Forget about the other teams as they are good one season and can completely fuck up the next season. In England you have a lot of big teams. The last few years Arsenal, Chelsea, United. You knew that if you join one of this teams you play CL and you'll reach the ko phase. Now there is also Manchester City. You have to compete with other clubs for the best players. Bayern Munich can pick them.
Maybe there is a change with Dortmund but at the moment that's it and it's a major advantage.

[QuartzGooner]

Rebel

I do not feel the club took their eye off Londoners. The opposite in fact, as it does a lot of charity and local community work.

Just that the London market has limits, defined to a large extent by area and local allegiance. Success on the pitch will bring more new fans, but there is only so far you can push to get fans from other parts of London.

[REB]

Rebel

I do not feel the club took their eye off Londoners. The opposite in fact, as it does a lot of charity and local community work.

Just that the London market has limits, defined to a large extent by area and local allegiance. Success on the pitch will bring more new fans, but there is only so far you can push to get fans from other parts of London.

was only asking quartz