The peculiar case of Bayern Munich

[Rohan]

I don't think so comparison is anything like apples to oranges. Similar kind of revenue streams, objective and competition for signing best players. Considering their strength in bundesliga, one can expect them to win more of it compared to us winning EPL. That still does not explain our inability to provide decent competition in CL.

[flash gunner]

I don't think so comparison is anything like apples to oranges. Similar kind of revenue streams, objective and competition for signing best players. Considering their strength in bundesliga, one can expect them to win more of it compared to us winning EPL. That still does not explain our inability to provide decent competition in CL.

Agreed and welcome to the forum mate

[Tomáš]

Well ,
Looking at the Bayern way of doing things you have to go back in history..

1. In 1972 the Olympic stadium was built for the Olympics 1972 in Germany/Munich. At that time it was a wonderful stadium and it was paid by the German tax payer. Bayern Munich (and only Bayern, because TSV 1860 played somewhere else in Munich) got it for nothing.
2. Bayern at that time had a dream team: Beckenbauer, Meier, Breitner, Hoeness, and more. It was not the time of moving players, so they had a very good squad which was the backbone of the German national team.
3. Robert Schwan was a great manager for them in the 70tees (Note that in Germany the manager is responsible for finance, the coach responsible for the team). He understood as the first manager in Germany how important a steady cash flow is and he was the personal manager of some players (Beckenbauer for example).
4. Bayern then started to buy the best players away from other teams. Sometimes only to weak the direct contender (for example Borussia Mönchengladbach in the 70).
5. Bayern transferred 1984 Karl-Heinz Rummenigge for record breaking € 5.7m to Inter Milan. Only Diego Maradonna transfer was higher at that time.
6. Bayern then continued getting the best players
7. The German TV money went mostly to Bayern Munich. They also had a special deal with the pay TV channel.
8. Because of their success in the CL they shuffled every year even more money. Money comes to Money

So, the situation is that they are the only 'big club' in Germany in terms of money. If they want they can really pull a transfer, see Ribery and Robben. Things for German players have changed a little bit because sometimes you move to Bayern and you find yourself sitting on the bench, at any other club you would be in the starting squad.

Regarding the fan base, it is basically German wide. That has pro and cons. Regarding ticket prices, Bayern is not more expensive or cheaper than other Bundesliga clubs.

So I think a lot of the continues Bayern success has to do with the history, the status they have because of that now and that money comes to money.

Cheers,
Thomas

[Rohan]

I don't think so comparison is anything like apples to oranges. Similar kind of revenue streams, objective and competition for signing best players. Considering their strength in bundesliga, one can expect them to win more of it compared to us winning EPL. That still does not explain our inability to provide decent competition in CL.

Agreed and welcome to the forum mate

Thanks.

[Nos89]

Whilst these are all relatively good points the German league didn't turn full time professional until the late 60's. This gave Bayern the opportunity to set up the club to be modelled on successful clubs around Europe of that time. The club was specifically set up to be competitive in Europe and at home. We are some 20 years behind them when it comes to a successful philosophy. To his credit Wenger along with Dein started us on this current path.
Whilst I would say we were pioneers in how a footbal club should be run, this was set out the some 80 years ago. We've still got a couple of people on the board that are associated with that philosophy, and it now seems Wenger is part of it.
The thing I like about BM is that they have taken former great players and developed them into leaders of the clubs, keeping the club fresh but with a core BM bloodline, Manure have done the same, we've turned ours away.

[StuartL]

Whilst these are all relatively good points the German league didn't turn full time professional until the late 60's. This gave Bayern the opportunity to set up the club to be modelled on successful clubs around Europe of that time. The club was specifically set up to be competitive in Europe and at home. We are some 20 years behind them when it comes to a successful philosophy. To his credit Wenger along with Dein started us on this current path.
Whilst I would say we were pioneers in how a footbal club should be run, this was set out the some 80 years ago. We've still got a couple of people on the board that are associated with that philosophy, and it now seems Wenger is part of it.
The thing I like about BM is that they have taken former great players and developed them into leaders of the clubs, keeping the club fresh but with a core BM bloodline, Manure have done the same, we've turned ours away.

Not true, Perry Groves does the legends tours around the Emirates.

[Nos89]

Whilst these are all relatively good points the German league didn't turn full time professional until the late 60's. This gave Bayern the opportunity to set up the club to be modelled on successful clubs around Europe of that time. The club was specifically set up to be competitive in Europe and at home. We are some 20 years behind them when it comes to a successful philosophy. To his credit Wenger along with Dein started us on this current path.
Whilst I would say we were pioneers in how a footbal club should be run, this was set out the some 80 years ago. We've still got a couple of people on the board that are associated with that philosophy, and it now seems Wenger is part of it.
The thing I like about BM is that they have taken former great players and developed them into leaders of the clubs, keeping the club fresh but with a core BM bloodline, Manure have done the same, we've turned ours away.

Not true, Perry Groves does the legends tours around the Emirates.

Ha ha, very good

[QuartzGooner]

Thanks for the detailed info TomAiAi.

And agree 89, think only Bould and Brady (and sometimes Davis?) from ex-players of Arsenal have any role in the football side of the club, though a few are involved with hospitality - Wilson, Radford, Nelson, George, Kelly.
Vieira, Adams, Dixon, Keown etc should be involved.

[cusamano]

Bayern is the only "big" club in Germany. They say every german player wants to play for Bayern Munich and it's not that wrong. In Germany only Bayern is a regular CL contender. Forget about the other teams as they are good one season and can completely fuck up the next season. [...] You have to compete with other clubs for the best players. Bayern Munich can pick them.
Maybe there is a change with Dortmund but at the moment that's it and it's a major advantage.

You are right, Bayern is the only real big club in Germany, but Dortmund is a big opposition:
- bigger stadium
- back to back Champions 2011 & 2012!
- Bayern failed to sign Marco Reus - that was the biggest blow for them since they failed to sign Rosicky

[cusamano]

Bayern is a club made for sucess, our is made for profit. Simple diference. They'll add more players to their squad whenever they feel necessary, as long as the club breaks even, because that's mandatory in the Bundesliga. They already have a top prospect for next season ( Xaquiri) and they should add a new CB, because theirs are shit.

Holger Badstuber is a top player, only 23 years old
Jerome Boateng is a bit floppy at times, but only 23 years old - he still can prove he´s a top player
plus: they signed Dante from Mönchengladbach for next season and have Daniel van Buyten...

[cusamano]

That's a well run club !

Yes.
Uli Hoeneß is one of the greatest managers of all time.
I´d love to see him at Arsenal! (never gonna happen though)

[OOKed]

I don't think so comparison is anything like apples to oranges. Similar kind of revenue streams, objective and competition for signing best players. Considering their strength in bundesliga, one can expect them to win more of it compared to us winning EPL. That still does not explain our inability to provide decent competition in CL.

Bayern is a club made for sucess, our is made for profit. Simple diference. They'll add more players to their squad whenever they feel necessary, as long as the club breaks even, because that's mandatory in the Bundesliga. They already have a top prospect for next season ( Xaquiri) and they should add a new CB, because theirs are shit.

And we'll still be fighting for the 4th place throphy, naturally.

That is exactly my point ... Yes they make more money and have better commercial income, but they still invest the vast majority of their profit back into the squad (new players) or back to the fans (ticket prices) - the german model.

We try to pursue as much income as we can within our limits (the 4th place trophy), but don't invest it back - well we do (a fraction of it) but we waste on big salaries for average players; and still ask the fans to fork out a pound of flesh per game.

Both clubs appear to have a long term 'sustainable' policy, Bayern's however seems to be built on sustainable growth as a club .. ours is built on sustainable profit as a business.

When it comes to domestic policy and domestic players within a team, if you want to argue about they are the only dominant force in the Bundesliga while we have to barge our way with big city spenders, that still does not explain why we had so little success in europe over our recent history while they still pushed their way around to become a recognisable force .. they definitely did not do it overnight and did not rely only on the domestic players they lure from other german clubs.

We should stop trying to emulate barcelona's style of play, and start to learn from Bayern's style of club management (they still dominated Mardrid away last time they played).

[Chippy]

We have £100 million in the bank. So we have the money to spend.

[Tomáš]

The thing I like about BM is that they have taken former great players and developed them into leaders of the clubs, keeping the club fresh but with a core BM bloodline, Manure have done the same, we've turned ours away.

Very good point! Although not every football player has the qualification to work in the top management.
But at Bayern you have: Beckenbauer, Hoeness, Rummenigge and from last season on Nerlinger, as former players and in the future I'm sure that Kahn will be also added to the team. Only Matthäus will never get a job. Famous saying by Uli Hoeness:' As long as I'm in charge here Lothar Matthäus will never get a job at Bayern, not even as green keeper'