mcdowell42 wrote:frankbutcher wrote:I said I thought this place needed a Norman Wisdom thread to kick start it again........flash gunner wrote:This is like World War One, a war of attrition
Whos gonna wave the white flag first?
and McDowell bring back the spreadable butter thread a lot me interestin that one
if only someone could kick start norman
You are an interesting case. You might like to know I have a 2:1 from one of the top Universities in the country in.............................Politics. I am pretty well read. How dare you badge me with being right-wing and parotting the Daily Mail. I've never read the Daily Mail. I read Chomsky and the like. You sound like the parrot. Keynes this..highburyJD wrote:frank I no more have a solution than you have
your list of 'policies' is just the daily mail play book:
you weren't pro-immigration then in 2008 the scales fell from your eyes
none of the things you 'suggest', ie right-wing talking points you parrot, are recession dependent
I am the same
my economic theories come from actual economists: Stiglitz, Bob Reich and Paul Krugman rather than the Daily Mail
but whatever, they aren't inspirational new ideas, they've centre left economic orthodoxy.
I believe in total nuclear disarmament, replacing trident is a multibillion pound waste of money
typical generals fighting the last war
but despite the fact this would save loads of money - I think it irrespective of the recession
I was thinking on the 'non-jobs' front.
Would fulfilling an essentially 'agency' role - being in the centre of a transaction with the aim of increasing efficiency
but failing to do so and actually making everything more expensive be a non-job?
What if this imaginary industry fell to pieces so badly it could only continue to exist with billions of tax payers money?
So these workers in the massive loss-makingindustry only continue to have jobs through taxpayer and debt funded bailouts. What could be more non-job?
Not just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic but then demanding the families of the drowned pay for a luxurious rescue...
Think of any industries like that?
wiki that.. Form your own opinion. Make up your own theories. Why you do you need to badge everything. Oh, Frank's bringing out the big guns now... it's a game of top trumps credentials!frankbutcher wrote: You are an interesting case. You might like to know I have a 2:1 from one of the top Universities in the country in.............................Politics.
do you have a First? are you a CEO "in the city"? why would you think I might like to know that...? no interestfrankbutcher wrote:You are an interesting case. You might like to know I have a 2:1 from one of the top Universities in the country in.............................Politics. I am pretty well read. How dare you badge me with being right-wing and parotting the Daily Mail. I've never read the Daily Mail. I read Chomsky and the like. You sound like the parrot. Keynes this..
Pratt.
yeah thats totally Chomskesque, especially the double the size of the police force bit...frankbutcher wrote:Quite simply though, we can't keep paying for people not to work in their millions. We are not a charity. We are a Business.We also don't get any return from millions of people employed in non-jobs. Quite simply there are too many people in this country. Immigration has been out of control for decades. We need to bring up the draw-bridge to all non-skilled Labour. We need to get out of the ECHR and completely overhaul our welfare system. I would double the size of the police to keep people in check. We also pull out of Afghanistan immediately and leave Syria alone. To save even more money I'd give Wales and Scotland the devolution they keep bleating on about. It's about time they start supporting themselves. And finally...... I'd give everyone £100 to spend on whatever they want. That would give everyone a great big boost and make us ooodles of money from taxes and profit taxes.
g88ner wrote:Oh, Frank's bringing out the big guns now... it's a game of top trumps credentials!frankbutcher wrote: You are an interesting case. You might like to know I have a 2:1 from one of the top Universities in the country in.............................Politics.
So, can you beat that highburyJD...?
Not really mate. It was the biggest joke of a degree I know. 10 hours a week and seminars with swampy-types arguing the toss about EU Common Agricultural Policy. But I'm definitely not a right-wing Daily Mail parrot. Yep, very insulting!highburyJD wrote: also "how dare you badge me with being right-wing?!?!:
by saying you're "right wing", he's basically calling you the Theo Walcott of politics 
Bit of a fool aren't you. So because I've read Chomsky, I have to have Chomsky-esque thoughts??highburyJD wrote:why would you think I might like to know that...? no interestfrankbutcher wrote:You are an interesting case. You might like to know I have a 2:1 from one of the top Universities in the country in.............................Politics. I am pretty well read. How dare you badge me with being right-wing and parotting the Daily Mail. I've never read the Daily Mail. I read Chomsky and the like. You sound like the parrot. Keynes this..
Pratt.
also "how dare you badge me with being right-wing?!?!:yeah thats totally Chomskeque, especially the double the size of the police force bit...frankbutcher wrote:Quite simply though, we can't keep paying for people not to work in their millions. We are not a charity. We are a Business.
I have my own theories - everyone I know thinks they're nuts
my point is that JUST LIKE YOU AND THE TORIES these theories are not recession driven
I would virtually not bother with custodial prison (serious violence only), massively expand the parole service, have creative restorative justice based sentencing, get rid of the army, make private schools except 51% free pupils, end all non-dom tax arrangements - want to not pay UK tax give up your passport on the way out, refuse all visas to tax haven residents, total nuclear disarmament, massive expansion of the NHS so it can be projected abroad as a humanitarian tool, create multiple new tax bands extra 5% over £1m, £5M, £10M etc, pay 1% to tax avoidance lawyers and accountants who anonymously grass their clients, pay for lots of university education but make graduates work for the govt for 3 years afterwards (esp doctors/engineers), have massive govt R&D devlopment budgets for renewal/alternate energy - try and become #1 in the world for producing electric cars, ban political parties, everyone votes their conscience, maintain high MP pensions but they post govt earnings capped, bring in widespread online issue based voting - true democracy, break up big media companies, end all offshore tax arrangements, break up the supermarkets and encourage smaller farms and shops (be a nation of shopekeepers again) strict zoning laws to stop clone high sts,
there you go loads of ideas, some more nuts than others
my point is, just like you an the tories, I dont think these things because of the recession...
Have you read Naomi Kleins economic shock therapy book?
Bet George and Dave have - we are one step away from Pinochet's Chile (in a financial sense - not about to throw students out of helicopters)
The country has made fortunes from the Banks. Following your theory about the £100. The Banks lent loads of £100s. People used that to invest and got rich (house prices trebled). When they sold those houses, the government collected taxes. Likewise, the Banks paid taxes, as did their employees. The taxes raised directly and indirectly from the Banks is many times the amount of money the government pumped in to stabilise them. I'd also like to say that you're quite hypocritical when you are arguing to tax the bankers and tell them how to run things. I thought that the austerity regime was failing in your eyes. Shouldn't banks be allowed to invest and work there way out of the problems. Or are you applyinng the austerity principles to the Banking system? Double standards????? I fail to see how working as a Business Bank Manager got the economy into trouble. I thought that was from Investment Banks buying Collateralised Debt Obligations and Junk Bonds.highburyJD wrote:work in a failed industry thats collapsed the worlds economy and lost trillions?
here - have a big sack of taxpayers money - not enough?
we'll borrow loads more and cut poor peoples services to pay for it
what's that? performance related bonuses? well as you've fecked your job more comprehensively that anyone in history...
they should be of a record-breaking level
wish somebody would clobber me like the bankers have been clobbered...
and you've never read the Daily Mail??!? you should try it
pretty sure you would like it
supermarkets dont produce anything
You are as prejudiced and parrot-like than any Daily Mail stereotype that I have heard about. I can almost predict what you're going to say to each of my posts. wasn't because you've read Chomsky that I thought you were claiming Chomskyesquenessfrankbutcher wrote:Bit of a fool aren't you. So because I've read Chomsky, I have to have Chomsky-esque thoughts??
I read - not, I have read Chomsky or I know my Chomsky. I readfrankbutcher wrote:How dare you badge me with being right-wing and parotting the Daily Mail. I've never read the Daily Mail. I read Chomsky and the like.
DUUUUUDE you demanded my theories over and over againfrankbutcher wrote:Picking the kernels of sweetcorn out of the dog-shit-esque manifesto you have (jokingly??) put together.
frankbutcher wrote:I agree on tax avoidance. You're either with us or against us.
because having the highest prison population in Europe has really worked well in the UKfrankbutcher wrote:Prisons would be doubled.
you haven't been watching - most extreme sentencing levels in Europe, especially of women and children. Every evidence based piece of research shows one on one probation office based relationships work better than any custodial based sentence in terms of non-recidivismfrankbutcher wrote:The way we dealt with the riots was the first time I've seen us get tough. Probation doesn't work. The causes need to be ironed out before probation works.
frankbutcher wrote:Agree on nuclear and would withdraw us from Afghanistan.
supermarkets are agents in the middle of a deal - driving down producers prices and taking the difference as profit. They produce nothing and destroy small businesses. Their monopolies only survive because they are some of the biggest donators to political partiesfrankbutcher wrote:Don't agree on supermarkets. Supermakrets produce cheap food for the people that you're supposed to be bringing out of poverty. I can't reallly see them buying home-baked artisan breads and home-made jam from the local shopkeeper.
NHS needs to be better but IMO it's the single greatest thing about Britainfrankbutcher wrote:I think you over-rate the NHS. It's great in parts, but when my Grandfather was dying at Christmas they came up well short. I would make Care Homes part of the NHS though.
conceptually happy with all of that but sounds very expensive (I would allow schools far more freedom to teach what they want but would ban religious schools)frankbutcher wrote:Education-wise - sport, sport, sport and vocational subjects. We need to get Britain manufacturing so grants and apprenticeships in this industry needs to be quadrupled. We have some of the best engineers in this country but we don't do enough of it. This would assist our balance of trade. In terms of infra-structure, the world's your oyster. And construction - I would build 500,000 council houses. These would stay as government stock for eternity (no sell offs a la Thatcher.)
is nuts, I'd be happy to 'let them get on with it' if it wasn't MY EFFING MONEYfrankbutcher wrote:Finally - Banking. Stop clobbering the Bankers and let them get on with it.
the shock therapy one is about railroading through political and economic agendas in times of crisisfrankbutcher wrote:I've read No Logo (years ago)
Not sure what the point is about Chomsky. I read a broad array of different political stand-points. Doesn't mean I have to parrot them. On immigration - we have had too much un-skilled immigration. There is no need for it. Our ferral under-class need to fill these jobs. I'm not anti-immigration. I'm anti un-skilled immigration. The reason that is deemed right wing is because of political correctness gone wrong. Supermarkets are monoliths which do a lot of harm. I agree with that. They have forced increasing amounts of intensive production (battery hens, GM etc. ). However if they weren't making the profits, the price would still increase for the buyer. Tax avoidance - Bankers yes and half of the civil service (watch tonight's news). Prisons - can't compare us with other countries. Tough sentences send out a message to the next generation. ASBOs and probation have encouraged a ferral under-class to break the law as the consequences are worth the risk. My plans for construction etc. Expensive???????? That's investment mate.highburyJD wrote:wasn't because you've read Chomsky that I thought you were claiming Chomskyesquenessfrankbutcher wrote:Bit of a fool aren't you. So because I've read Chomsky, I have to have Chomsky-esque thoughts??
was because you saidI read - not, I have read Chomsky or I know my Chomsky. I readfrankbutcher wrote:How dare you badge me with being right-wing and parotting the Daily Mail. I've never read the Daily Mail. I read Chomsky and the like.
How dare you badge me right-wing (after a long list of far-right police state anti-immigration policies)
I read Chomsky and the like. That was what 'fooled' me into accusations of non-Chomsking.
DUUUUUDE you demanded my theories over and over againfrankbutcher wrote:Picking the kernels of sweetcorn out of the dog-shit-esque manifesto you have (jokingly??) put together.
I told you they weren't relevant or connected to the recession - you kept repeating your random demands for an off the cuff manifesto. Now you moan I dropped it?? Can't win...frankbutcher wrote:I agree on tax avoidance. You're either with us or against us.
everyone agrees on tax avoidance (oh, apart from your mates in the City we should stop 'clobbering')because having the highest prison population in Europe has really worked well in the UKfrankbutcher wrote:Prisons would be doubled.you haven't been watching - most extreme sentencing levels in Europe, especially of women and children. Every evidence based piece of research shows one on one probation office based relationships work better than any custodial based sentence in terms of non-recidivismfrankbutcher wrote:The way we dealt with the riots was the first time I've seen us get tough. Probation doesn't work. The causes need to be ironed out before probation works.frankbutcher wrote:Agree on nuclear and would withdraw us from Afghanistan.
waahaaaysupermarkets are agents in the middle of a deal - driving down producers prices and taking the difference as profit. They produce nothing and destroy small businesses. Their monopolies only survive because they are some of the biggest donators to political partiesfrankbutcher wrote:Don't agree on supermarkets. Supermakrets produce cheap food for the people that you're supposed to be bringing out of poverty. I can't reallly see them buying home-baked artisan breads and home-made jam from the local shopkeeper.NHS needs to be better but IMO it's the single greatest thing about Britainfrankbutcher wrote:I think you over-rate the NHS. It's great in parts, but when my Grandfather was dying at Christmas they came up well short. I would make Care Homes part of the NHS though.conceptually happy with all of that but sounds very expensive (I would allow schools far more freedom to teach what they want but would ban religious schools)frankbutcher wrote:Education-wise - sport, sport, sport and vocational subjects. We need to get Britain manufacturing so grants and apprenticeships in this industry needs to be quadrupled. We have some of the best engineers in this country but we don't do enough of it. This would assist our balance of trade. In terms of infra-structure, the world's your oyster. And construction - I would build 500,000 council houses. These would stay as government stock for eternity (no sell offs a la Thatcher.)is nuts, I'd be happy to 'let them get on with it' if it wasn't MY EFFING MONEYfrankbutcher wrote:Finally - Banking. Stop clobbering the Bankers and let them get on with it.the shock therapy one is about railroading through political and economic agendas in times of crisisfrankbutcher wrote:I've read No Logo (years ago)
its the Chicago school methodology and its what the Tories are doing right now
Not sure what the point is about Chomsky. I read a broad array of different political stand-points. Doesn't mean I have to parrot them. On immigration - we have had too much un-skilled immigration. There is no need for it. Our ferral under-class need to fill these jobs. I'm not anti-immigration. I'm anti un-skilled immigration. The reason that is deemed right wing is because of political correctness gone wrong. Supermarkets are monoliths which do a lot of harm. I agree with that. They have forced increasing amounts of intensive production (battery hens, GM etc. ). However if they weren't making the profits, the price would still increase for the buyer. Tax avoidance - Bankers yes and half of the civil service (watch tonight's news). Prisons - can't compare us with other countries. Tough sentences send out a message to the next generation. ASBOs and probation have encouraged a ferral under-class to break the law as the consequences are worth the risk. My plans for construction etc. Expensive???????? That's investment mate.highburyJD wrote:wasn't because you've read Chomsky that I thought you were claiming Chomskyesquenessfrankbutcher wrote:Bit of a fool aren't you. So because I've read Chomsky, I have to have Chomsky-esque thoughts??
was because you saidI read - not, I have read Chomsky or I know my Chomsky. I readfrankbutcher wrote:How dare you badge me with being right-wing and parotting the Daily Mail. I've never read the Daily Mail. I read Chomsky and the like.
How dare you badge me right-wing (after a long list of far-right police state anti-immigration policies)
I read Chomsky and the like. That was what 'fooled' me into accusations of non-Chomsking.
DUUUUUDE you demanded my theories over and over againfrankbutcher wrote:Picking the kernels of sweetcorn out of the dog-shit-esque manifesto you have (jokingly??) put together.
I told you they weren't relevant or connected to the recession - you kept repeating your random demands for an off the cuff manifesto. Now you moan I dropped it?? Can't win...frankbutcher wrote:I agree on tax avoidance. You're either with us or against us.
everyone agrees on tax avoidance (oh, apart from your mates in the City we should stop 'clobbering')because having the highest prison population in Europe has really worked well in the UKfrankbutcher wrote:Prisons would be doubled.you haven't been watching - most extreme sentencing levels in Europe, especially of women and children. Every evidence based piece of research shows one on one probation office based relationships work better than any custodial based sentence in terms of non-recidivismfrankbutcher wrote:The way we dealt with the riots was the first time I've seen us get tough. Probation doesn't work. The causes need to be ironed out before probation works.frankbutcher wrote:Agree on nuclear and would withdraw us from Afghanistan.
waahaaaysupermarkets are agents in the middle of a deal - driving down producers prices and taking the difference as profit. They produce nothing and destroy small businesses. Their monopolies only survive because they are some of the biggest donators to political partiesfrankbutcher wrote:Don't agree on supermarkets. Supermakrets produce cheap food for the people that you're supposed to be bringing out of poverty. I can't reallly see them buying home-baked artisan breads and home-made jam from the local shopkeeper.NHS needs to be better but IMO it's the single greatest thing about Britainfrankbutcher wrote:I think you over-rate the NHS. It's great in parts, but when my Grandfather was dying at Christmas they came up well short. I would make Care Homes part of the NHS though.conceptually happy with all of that but sounds very expensive (I would allow schools far more freedom to teach what they want but would ban religious schools)frankbutcher wrote:Education-wise - sport, sport, sport and vocational subjects. We need to get Britain manufacturing so grants and apprenticeships in this industry needs to be quadrupled. We have some of the best engineers in this country but we don't do enough of it. This would assist our balance of trade. In terms of infra-structure, the world's your oyster. And construction - I would build 500,000 council houses. These would stay as government stock for eternity (no sell offs a la Thatcher.)is nuts, I'd be happy to 'let them get on with it' if it wasn't MY EFFING MONEYfrankbutcher wrote:Finally - Banking. Stop clobbering the Bankers and let them get on with it.the shock therapy one is about railroading through political and economic agendas in times of crisisfrankbutcher wrote:I've read No Logo (years ago)
its the Chicago school methodology and its what the Tories are doing right now
