THE BOARD - Kroenke, Usmanov and Finance

[the playing mantis]

highbury jd believes what one person said but not another..picking and choosing his sources (the sun...) and basing his defence on what he wants to believe, its typicla akb behaviour, and basically the same as his politicl arguement with frank.

craig murray is a twat, with an axe to grind and a massive agenda. anyone who knows anything about the guy knows this, yet jd prefers to believe him.

i suppose as sausage fingers was accused of rape and is thus a rapist in your eyes, rvp is too??

[StuartL]

I am 100% anti Jabba and 100% anti capslock
(IT READS LIKE YOU'RE SCREAMING DUUUUUDE)

Wouldn't want gangsters who have served time running our club - especially when he's already stated he wants dividends
current board may have increased the value of their shares but they've never taken money out of the club.

Would break my heart if the board sold up to Jabba - would never forgive them
Instantly we become a scumbag joke like the Chavks and ManShitty

So not true, they have all made absolute millions from selling their shares to wee jimmy Kronke. (As too did David Dein.)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog ... enke-board

to quote some of it as it is quite long "Hill-Wood last week said that as directors, "protecting the ethos and spirit" of the club was "a key responsibility", so they were selling to Kroenke because they are confident he will be a "safe custodian". Secure that they were doing their duty, Hill-Wood banked £4.7m for his shares, Lady Nina Bracewell-Smith £116m and Danny Fiszman, who was terminally ill by then and has since died, £117m for his family.

None of that money is going back into Arsenal, whether to buy and fund the wages of some senior experienced players Fábregas argues they desperately need – that would be contrary to the "self-sustaining model" – or to keep ticket prices the right side of extortionate. It is all for the custodians to keep."

It has actually cost us as a club millions as we ended up paying all of his fees involved in purchasing their shares too.

(US Martin you would be proud)

[augie]

This is the point that I am continually making but some refuse to recognise - not taking dividends is easy when your objective is to rise the share prices and make a financial killing by doing so and that is the business model that fizsman, phw and the rest used and so too is it the business model that the yank is using and in the meantime all those millions that we are making in profits but are not investing in players purchases is just increasing the pot of gold for when kroenke fcuks off

[QuartzGooner]

StuartL and Augie

How does one rich person selling shares to another consist of either putting money in to the club or taking money out of the club?

I asked USMartin the same question but I never got the answer from USMartin.

Keeping spending low to amass cash in the bank, if it were true, does not devalue the club financially; though it can weaken the competitive edge of the squad.

It can also mean we have most or all of the stadium debt in reserve should revenue fall.

(For the record I want more spending than we currently spend, and I want what we spend to be spent on better quality than some of the players I frequently mentioned in my for sale list.)

[georgeknows89]

Having absorbed 4 pages of what i would call a mixed bag of intellect and absolute bunkum it is clear there will always be a divide on the direction we should take.

I was only trying to relay to the forum what i believe is quite reliable information as to what is likely to happen and i believe needs to happen .

Usmanov is getting richer every year, has already spent £250-300m of petty cash on shares that he currently gets no return on and has had a 12 seater box since 2006 that he increased to 24 seats 2 years ago.He goes to games, spends money on the club and at the stadium and has seen what his mate Roman has achieved with a club with NO fans and NO history and NO stadium so most probably think the Trophy cabinet can be expanded somewhat if the same sort of investment is made with us.

If we all had a degree in hindsight....Knighton trying to nab Manu- he was pure white and British , Oyston the rapist at Blackpool, Craig White at Rangers, dodgy Ron Noades and lots more holier than thou people.

Our infrastructure was laid out by the DODGY POLITICAL MANIPULATION AND WHEELING AND DEALINGS FROM HENRY NORRIS BUT DO WE GIVE A SHIT NOW- NO WE DON'T !!

All I am saying is if Usma writes out a big cheque and rides in on his tank then don't be shocked and lets see what unfolds.

Personally i want success and if he wants to spend hundreds of millions and thinks he will be able to draw a dividend then it means we will have made a big profit so what is the problem

[Ray]

Just out of curiosity has anyone got the quotes where Usmanov is supposed to have asked for a dividend?

I have found an FT article where it is mentioned back in 2007, but the comment is one of the few that isn't quoted.

I have found about 20 other reports of the same interview and none of them mention the dividend thing.

Arseblog mentions the FT report and from that point on it is taken as a matter of fact.

Just curious whether anyone had any actual quotes on this.

[augie]

StuartL and Augie

How does one rich person selling shares to another consist of either putting money in to the club or taking money out of the club?

I asked USMartin the same question but I never got the answer from USMartin.

Keeping spending low to amass cash in the bank, if it were true, does not devalue the club financially; though it can weaken the competitive edge of the squad.

It can also mean we have most or all of the stadium debt in reserve should revenue fall.

(For the record I want more spending than we currently spend, and I want what we spend to be spent on better quality than some of the players I frequently mentioned in my for sale list.)

Quartz, by not spending money it leaves more money in the bank and also increases the profits of the business (income less expenditure = profits) and the value on shares is almost entirely influenced by the balance sheets then doesnt it make sense for an owner (be they fizsman or kroenke) to cut back on spending in advance of a sell out ? If that is the case then isnt it detrimental to the club to not spend where needed especially when funds are available to spend ? Following that line of thought then you would have to ask exactly whose interests was fizsman serving and the same question applies to kroenke now

[georgeknows89]

Kroenke is doing a JP Magnier / man u.

I said it at the outset , all that will happen is that Usma will end up paying hundreds of millions more to achieve his objective of ownership but the surplus money will go to Kroenke and back over the pond - well done in advance to all those that backed him.

1 question if this was not all cosy and hooky .......

Nina was thrown off the board when she sold her shares but has now been invited back as a non exec or consultant or some other old rubbish - anyone care to explain ?

[frankbutcher]

Kroenke is doing a JP Magnier / man u.

I said it at the outset , all that will happen is that Usma will end up paying hundreds of millions more to achieve his objective of ownership but the surplus money will go to Kroenke and back over the pond - well done in advance to all those that backed him.

1 question if this was not all cosy and hooky .......

Nina was thrown off the board when she sold her shares but has now been invited back as a non exec or consultant or some other old rubbish - anyone care to explain ?

George - you're taking a ridiculously arrogant tone for someone who hasn't got a clue what is going to happen. I reckon you're right. Kroenke will "flip" his shares to the highest bidder but...................only once he's signed a load of lucrative sponsorship marketing deals when the current deals with Emirates and Nike expire. The Club is under-valued and has been under-marketed. Why would he sell now or in the next 12 months? He's here for a good few years yet pal. He has other interests. He doesn't need the cash. Unless we fall right away from competing, I can't see him selling up. He's in this long-term. He sees the possibilities of European Super Leagues and individiual CLub TV deals. So don't come and preach to us about Usmanov. Kroenke has been around the block a few times. He's a shyster IMO, but he won't go quietly.

[augie]

Kroenke is doing a JP Magnier / man u.

I said it at the outset , all that will happen is that Usma will end up paying hundreds of millions more to achieve his objective of ownership but the surplus money will go to Kroenke and back over the pond - well done in advance to all those that backed him.

1 question if this was not all cosy and hooky .......

Nina was thrown off the board when she sold her shares but has now been invited back as a non exec or consultant or some other old rubbish - anyone care to explain ?

George - you're taking a ridiculously arrogant tone for someone who hasn't got a clue what is going to happen. I reckon you're right. Kroenke will "flip" his shares to the highest bidder but...................only once he's signed a load of lucrative sponsorship marketing deals when the current deals with Emirates and Nike expire. The Club is under-valued and has been under-marketed. Why would he sell now or in the next 12 months? He's here for a good few years yet pal. He has other interests. He doesn't need the cash. Unless we fall right away from competing, I can't see him selling up. He's in this long-term. He sees the possibilities of European Super Leagues and individiual CLub TV deals. So don't come and preach to us about Usmanov. Kroenke has been around the block a few times. He's a shyster IMO, but he won't go quietly.

Frank you claim that we as a club are under valued but seven years of continual failure must shake that belief surely ? A successful club that is actually winning trophies on the pitch (no, not best pitch/groundsman of the year) can name it's own price when negotiating with companies wanting to sponsor and be associated with your club but a team winning nothing soon discovers that people are not queing up at your door and those that are certainly will not pay top dollar so maybe we were unvalued when the last deals were struck but now, thanks to our continued mismanagement of the club, I dont think we are anymore

[QuartzGooner]

Augie

I hear your argument but I still do not see how selling shares takes money out of the club?

Sure it makes share sellers rich, but it is not reckless or gambling away the club's future.
It does as I said weaken the playing squad, so on that account I am not in favour of this non-spending, but at the same time hoarding cash can also be seen as offsetting the club's stadium debt, not just as you believe, to make the shares worth more.
The share sellers kill two birds with one stone!

The unkilled bird is trophies....but that needs more than just money thrown at it..it needs improved coaching.
Though as I say, I do want more spent, and if tonight's rumours that we have signed M'Vila are correct, we are seeing a positive transfer market for us so far.

GeorgeKnows

Lady Nina left the board prior (December 2008) to her selling shares to Stan Kroenke (April 2011), not after.

I have no idea if her reinstatement is connected to Usmanov, or is merely a cosmetic honour to appease the Carr and Bracewell-Smith families.

[StuartL]

[quote="QuartzGooner"]StuartL and Augie

How does one rich person selling shares to another consist of either putting money in to the club or taking money out of the club?
Were our board members really rich, in the grand scheme of things ? Titled, yes, Old Etonions, maybe but in the context of football owners, rich, not really


The part in bold, Kronke's aquisition of the shares ended up being paid for by the club somehow, so yes it took money out of our coffers.

IKeeping spending low to amass cash in the bank, if it were true, does not devalue the club financially; though it can weaken the competitive edge of the squad.

It can also mean we have most or all of the stadium debt in reserve should revenue fall.


By playing the long game, Kronke wins handsomely, in a couple of years most, if not all, of the stadium debt wil be gone, our property investments will be completed, with the revenue that they will bring in and as you stated our criminally poor sponsorship deals (perhaps a new stadium naming payout) will all significantly increase our revenues and therefore shareprice

(/quote]

What I don't get is, why didn't the existing puppets on the board see all this and just play the long game themselves ? (Fizman's circumstances apart) They have sold out, lost a fair amount as the share price has risen and Kronke our new "custodian" has sat back and done sweet F.A, apart from increase prices

[QuartzGooner]

Still do not understand it StuartL.
Not trying to wind anyone up, but to me it is just one rich person selling to another rich person.


As for the board members who sold, apart from Dein they look to me be in their seventies, and maybe they just feel the time is right to cash in?

[frankbutcher]

Still do not understand it StuartL.
Not trying to wind anyone up, but to me it is just one rich person selling to another rich person.


As for the board members who sold, apart from Dein they look to me be in their seventies, and maybe they just feel the time is right to cash in?

Quartz - are you being serious when you say you can't see how selling the Club on to another rich man doesn't take money out of the Club? Try to understand this anaology:

The football Club is effectively a tenant living in a house owned by the Landlord (Kroenke). The Club goes out to work each day and earns money to pay the rent. The rent is exorbitant and all of it goes to be paid to the Landlord. For the level of rent that we are paying, the house should be a palace. We should have a marble kitchen, a jacuzzi, a swimming pool and a massive flat-screen TV. We in fact live comfortably but nothing compared to the neighbours (City, Chelsea, United). What the Landlord is using our rent for is to pay off his mortgage really quickly in double-quick time. The previous Landlord did exactly the same thing (Fiszman / Lady Nina / Dein). He used our rent to build a load of other Properties, which he then sold for cash. He then sold our house to the current Landlord (Kroenke).

We are being fleeced for an inferior product, to make someone else rich. Money never flows out of the Company, but it does when the Club is sold on for profit.

[SteveO 35]

I don't want his sort

I would much rather have true Arsenal men like Kroenke and Gazidis running things.